RL Rolling Maul

[Damien]

The governing bodies really need to start getting stricter on this before it becomes a real problem and as we all know what starts in the NRL comes to SL soon enough. Its all very well complaining about dangerous low tackles and hip drops on the player being tackled, and rightly so, but not stopping this only encourages the 3rd man to attack the legs:

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Damien

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

Yes agreed, it's been quite prevalent in the NRL this year (although that one's pretty blatant - he also pushes the defender in the process, which is an interference penalty in itself). It'll be here soon if not stopped. 

We also don't consistently apply the anti-maul rules when it comes to driving players into touch. It seems at present refs are fine with that as long as the tackle still has momentum, even if another attacker has added their weight to their team mate before they go out. But the rules state held should be called as soon as an attacker is joined by another attacking player. 

Needs sorting out. 

[Bobby123]

13 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Yes agreed, it's been quite prevalent in the NRL this year (although that one's pretty blatant - he also pushes the defender in the process, which is an interference penalty in itself). It'll be here soon if not stopped. 

We also don't consistently apply the anti-maul rules when it comes to driving players into touch. It seems at present refs are fine with that as long as the tackle still has momentum, even if another attacker has added their weight to their team mate before they go out. But the rules state held should be called as soon as an attacker is joined by another attacking player. 

Needs sorting out. 

Quite a bit of needless violence creeping into the game. Appreciate that it is "a mans game" but hauling yourself to your feet by exerting pressure to the opponents face and head with the palm is just as dangerous as a high tackle.

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, Bobby123 said:

Quite a bit of needless violence creeping into the game. Appreciate that it is "a mans game" but hauling yourself to your feet by exerting pressure to the opponents face and head with the palm is just as dangerous as a high tackle.

Paul Sironen regularly used to do that in the 80s and 90s.

[The 4 of Us]

Mr Armageddon in that twitter conversation gets in right. The attackers team mate can lend weight wilst he is going forward. As so as progress is stopped, or he goes back, the ref calls held. 
 

“Moving tackled player 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or carry the player in possession, it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”.”

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Mr Armageddon in that twitter conversation gets in right. The attackers team mate can lend weight wilst he is going forward. As so as progress is stopped, or he goes back, the ref calls held. 
 

“Moving tackled player 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or carry the player in possession, it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”.”

No because his momentum was clearly stopped before his team mate started to push forward. He also pushes the Bulldogs player too which certainly isn't allowed.

[The Rocket]

3 hours ago, Bobby123 said:

Quite a bit of needless violence creeping into the game. Appreciate that it is "a mans game" but hauling yourself to your feet by exerting pressure to the opponents face and head with the palm is just as dangerous as a high tackle.

Look as long as that wasn`t done to the back of the neck - in line with the obvious precautions surrounding this sort of thing - I`ve never really had a problem with that as it was all part of the theatre of the game.

Don`t you think we risk over-sanitising the game if we start to remove any contact with the head at all.

[The 4 of Us]

30 minutes ago, Damien said:

No because his momentum was clearly stopped before his team mate started to push forward. He also pushes the Bulldogs player too which certainly isn't allowed.

Where in the “laws” does it say that. Have watched again and unless you’re referring to a millisecond between 2 and 3 seconds, I’m not sure what you’re referring to? 

[Damien]

31 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Where in the “laws” does it say that. Have watched again and unless you’re referring to a millisecond between 2 and 3 seconds, I’m not sure what you’re referring to? 

It's quite clear where momentum stopped. If you choose to ignore that it's up to you. Also you quote a section which clearly states the referee should have called held. He didn't. There is absolutely nothing in the laws to say a team mate can lend weight as long as the player in possession is going forward. 

Again the point is that to stop this only encourages dangerous 3rd man in low tackles. That is something the game is trying to get away from.

[The 4 of Us]

If you’re unwilling to say where in that 9 sec clip that momentum was stopped, or where the rule/law is you infer, fine. I have suggested where but unless watching in slo-mo I can’t see how any ref would make a judgement that the drive/tackle us complete.

Meanwhile from 2018 NRL interpretations “Lending Weight
It is permissible for a player to ‘lend weight to a teammate in possession in order to avoid losing ground’.
Section 11 (2) (a) notes
1 It is not permissible for the player lending weight to impede a defender from making the tackle
2 The Referee will take into account any momentum the tackle has already generated.”

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operations/nrl-laws-and-interpretations-2018.pdf

[sentoffagain2]

1 hour ago, The 4 of Us said:

Where in the “laws” does it say that. Have watched again and unless you’re referring to a millisecond between 2 and 3 seconds, I’m not sure what you’re referring to? 

  Often less time than that.I have seen late tackles penalised this season when the defender was off the ground and half way to the attacking player.How can you pull out once committed.I would think the timing was less than a second in some cases.It's easy to criticise when watching  but when playing the margins are much closer.

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, The 4 of Us said:

Mr Armageddon in that twitter conversation gets in right. The attackers team mate can lend weight wilst he is going forward. As so as progress is stopped, or he goes back, the ref calls held. 
 

“Moving tackled player 2. (a) Where opponents do not make a tackle effective in the quickest possible manner but attempt to push, pull or carry the player in possession, it is permissible for colleagues of the tackled player to lend their weight in order to avoid losing ground. Immediately this happens the referee should call “Held”.”

You are not applying the law you are quoting correctly.

Corey Horsborough was not losing ground, rather he was gaining territory. His team mate is not allowed to lend weight.

As Canberra were not losing territory in the tackle, the referee should have called held as soon as the team mate joined the tackle.

This is not a massive ongoing issue that the twitter post makes out. It was very noticeable to me when it happened as it was a stand out moment. I expect the matter to be dealt with by the officials on Monday in review, rather than seeing this as a regular feature that will eventually need a clampdown.

[The 4 of Us]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You are not applying the law you are quoting correctly.

Corey Horsborough was not losing ground, rather he was gaining territory. His team mate is not allowed to lend weight.

As Canberra were not losing territory in the tackle, the referee should have called held as soon as the team mate joined the tackle.

This is not a massive ongoing issue that the twitter post makes out. It was very noticeable to me when it happened as it was a stand out moment. I expect the matter to be dealt with by the officials on Monday in review, rather than seeing this as a regular feature that will eventually need a clampdown.

“His team mate is not allowed to lend weight.”

I’m happy to be corrected. Where is the rules/laws does it say he can’t lend weight in such circumstances.

The rule I quoted refers to the tackle when in effect the attacker starts to go backwards when a teammate can lend weight and the the ref has to shout held. 
 

No where I can see is there anything which deals with a situation of lending weight to a player still going forward.

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

“His team mate is not allowed to lend weight.”

I’m happy to be corrected. Where is the rules/laws does it say he can’t lend weight in such circumstances.

The rule I quoted refers to the tackle when in effect the attacker starts to go backwards when a teammate can lend weight and the the ref has to shout held. 
 

No where I can see is there anything which deals with a situation of lending weight to a player still going forward.

It is bizarre how you keep quoting stuff that disproves what you say. There is nothing in the laws that say you can lend weight to push forwards, despite your initial assertion. The players momentum stopped and his team mate started to push so he wasn't pushed back, by definition of what you keep quoting the referee should have called held.

[Damien]

38 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

If you’re unwilling to say where in that 9 sec clip that momentum was stopped, or where the rule/law is you infer, fine. I have suggested where but unless watching in slo-mo I can’t see how any ref would make a judgement that the drive/tackle us complete.

Meanwhile from 2018 NRL interpretations “Lending Weight
It is permissible for a player to ‘lend weight to a teammate in possession in order to avoid losing ground’.
Section 11 (2) (a) notes
1 It is not permissible for the player lending weight to impede a defender from making the tackle
2 The Referee will take into account any momentum the tackle has already generated.”

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operations/nrl-laws-and-interpretations-2018.pdf

I mean if "it is not permissible for the player lending weight to impede a defender from making the tackle" isn't pushing the player that is making the tackle then I don't know what is.

You know the question you posed about where in the laws does it say that.

[Sports Prophet]

20 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

“His team mate is not allowed to lend weight.”

I’m happy to be corrected. Where is the rules/laws does it say he can’t lend weight in such circumstances.

The rule I quoted refers to the tackle when in effect the attacker starts to go backwards when a teammate can lend weight and the the ref has to shout held. 
 

No where I can see is there anything which deals with a situation of lending weight to a player still going forward.

It’s understandably one you have missed as it is not 100% specific in the explanation you have shared, so I am not calling you out as being incorrect, more misunderstood.

The rule is designed to stop players losing territory in the tackle, being pushed back 20 metres by a defensive maul. The defensive players were neither attempting to “push, pull or carry the player in possession”, they were simply trying to stop him first, in which case the attacking team mate is not permitted to lend weight.

If this was an ongoing problem, we would be seeing team mates more commonly lending weight to attackers in a tackle close to the line in an attempt to get them over. You will see this is not prevalent because the referee calls held immediately the attacking player is assisted.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[Dunbar]

I watch almost every minute of every NRL round and I have to say I hadn't noticed this as a problem in the NRL.

[StandOffHalf]

Happened again this morning in the Easts vs Cows game, with Granville latching on to help Taunoa-Brown gain more yards.

It doesn't strike me as a huge problem but if it is against the laws I think refs should penalise it.

[StandOffHalf]

9 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I watch almost every minute of every NRL round and I have to say I hadn't noticed this as a problem in the NRL.

I hadn't either, but it's funny how one picks up on something when others highlight it.

[Tippytoe]

23 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Look as long as that wasn`t done to the back of the neck - in line with the obvious precautions surrounding this sort of thing - I`ve never really had a problem with that as it was all part of the theatre of the game.

Don`t you think we risk over-sanitising the game if we start to remove any contact with the head at all.

The Aussies call it gamesmanship we call it cheating maybe we need to change our attitude towards advantage gaining skills to turn the tide at international level? I'll probably get shot down by the PC but that's how I see it.

[The 4 of Us]

Lots of discussion but no one has yet pointed out in the “laws” where it is not allowed. Simple question, happy to change my view, but?

[The 4 of Us]

Confused Damien? 
 

As above  

Lots of discussion but no one has yet pointed out in the “laws” where it is not allowed. Simple question, happy to change my view, but?

[Damien]

32 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Confused Damien? 
 

As above  

 

Lots of discussion but no one has yet pointed out in the “laws” where it is not allowed. Simple question, happy to change my view, but?

You keep ignoring the posts that point this out. That is why you dont reply to them. You yourself keep quoting the laws but obviously don't even understand what you quote. Either that or you are being obtuse.

[Damien]

4 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Happened again this morning in the Easts vs Cows game, with Granville latching on to help Taunoa-Brown gain more yards.

It doesn't strike me as a huge problem but if it is against the laws I think refs should penalise it.

It becomes a problem if it continues to be encouraged by not calling held. The bigger issue for me is that the way to stop it is by a 3rd man attacking the legs which is something the game should be trying to get away from.

[StandOffHalf]

59 minutes ago, Damien said:

It becomes a problem if it continues to be encouraged by not calling held. The bigger issue for me is that the way to stop it is by a 3rd man attacking the legs which is something the game should be trying to get away from.

I really dislike cannonballs and hip-drops. Two things that should be targeted strongly by officialdom.

I haven't seen attacks on the legs in the couple of incidents that spring to mind, but I'd certainly be in favour of underhand and dangerous attacks on legs being wiped out of the game.