Sat 22 July : Betfred RL Challenge Cup Semi Final : St Helens v Leigh Leopards KO 14:30 BBC1

[StandOffHalf]

Open season to dive off feet low at legs. 

I sincerely hope there aren't further injuries, since the RFL seem to be saying that they can't change laws mid-season.

[phiggins]

4 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Open season to dive off feet low at legs. 

I sincerely hope there aren't further injuries, since the RFL seem to be saying that they can't change laws mid-season.

Asiata didn't dive off his feet though

[Saint Toppy]

40 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Don't worry, I've played the game at a high level and i have done my fair bit of sledging in my time !!

Just highlighted the bit in Bold. Asiata has done nothing of the sort to make himself a target. Wellens, Wilkin, Keyboard warriors and my mate who knows a mate who plays for St Helens have made John Asiata a target over their constant bemoaning of which really is deemed an accidental clash which can happen in any collision sport.

It will die down but its gone too far. It wasn't an assault, it wasn't dirty play, it was an accidental clash.

Wellens is in danger of really isolating himself professionally here and he is attempting to rapport support from wider channels with people who are daft enough to go with it. The media will love it for sure but there will be a tap on the shoulder in the end by someone saying 'enough is enough'. Although I fully understand your coaches emotional outburst, the way he has gone about it it my opinion is breach of contract. By far better ways and means of getting your point across the with different use of Language. Instead it seems he wants to be William Wallace !!

Whether you, I or Wellens for that matter believe is almost irrelevant, its the other guys on the pitch that will determine whether anything else comes from this. Nothing may come of it, or we may see a spate of further tackles like this going on or even Asiata becoming a target of tackles like this or some other form of foul play. 

Given none of us on this forum are current players we'll never know for sure unless something happens

[StandOffHalf]

30 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Asiata didn't dive off his feet though

Fair enough. Thanks for picking me up on that inaccuracy.

[Snowys Backside]

17 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Whether you, I or Wellens for that matter believe is almost irrelevant, its the other guys on the pitch that will determine whether anything else comes from this. Nothing may come of it, or we may see a spate of further tackles like this going on or even Asiata becoming a target of tackles like this or some other form of foul play. 

Given none of us on this forum are current players we'll never know for sure unless something happens

I don't think it matters. I think the precedent has been set unless someone reels Wellens and Wilkin in and states enough is enough. 

If Wellen's behavior takes 3000 away fans from the total gate on 8th Sept because the game will become a 'blood fest' due to the CC semi final, Id like to think Eamonn McManus wont be very chuffed about it. 60-70 grand out of pocket due to an uncontrolled emotional outburst. You have already told us on this forum that one Saints player looks well up for it !!

We may as well not bother turning up, give you the 2 points and save Asiata's ass from getting kicked.

Thanks for the heads up. I will be taking my kids bowling now on Sept 8th rather than fork out 60 + pounds plus to watch the match as a family !

[phiggins]

30 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Fair enough. Thanks for picking me up on that inaccuracy.

I know my post was pedantic, but I just think any proper scrutiny of the tackling technique should begin with an accurate description of what has actually happened.

There's been a lot of noise, and hysteria around these tackles, that I don't think is very helpful when it comes to achieving anything. 

[JohnM]

The problem with Wellens trying to pressure and influence the RFL Disciplinary Panel is that it encourages his players , already leaders in the field of arm-flapping and secondary refereeing, to follow his example.  Need stamping out quickly. But hey, Its St. Helens the Entitled Ones.

[StandOffHalf]

20 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I know my post was pedantic, but I just think any proper scrutiny of the tackling technique should begin with an accurate description of what has actually happened.

There's been a lot of noise, and hysteria around these tackles, that I don't think is very helpful when it comes to achieving anything. 

I agree that describing what happened is important. I should have checked whether the feet left the deck before posting.

What I was trying to convey was his low, almost horizontal to the ground, missile-like projecting of his body - with his head and shoulders arcing towards his target. One foot seems to come up and he pushes off the other to effect his unusual technique.

Cheers; I do appreciate the heads-up as to my oversight!

Edited July 27, 2023 by StandOffHalf

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

I can't believe your being so naive about what RL is as a game or society in general. RL isn't a contact sport, its an impact sport. The majority of players may not want to seriously injure but they do want to hurt with their tackles. Many players love nothing more than to put in a 'big hit' and leave their opposition in a crumpled heap on the floor, many openly celebrate when they do it and its there for everyone to see. You sometimes even see their team mates come over and give them a back-slap or a head pat for putting in a massive hit, even if their opposition is still on the floor in discomfort.

Just like the rest of society and in any workplace you seriously can't believe that all players are friends and all get on with each other. Players ' fall out' or get incensed by something another player may have done. You only need to read these forums to see that this behaviour is just a mirror of society in general.

These kind of feelings and behaviours isn't limited to Saints or to SL, its true of every club across every division. Anyone who believes that their club & their players are any different are the ones who are deluded and out of touch with reality. 

With the Asiata incident we've already seen that pundits, coaches and fans can view the same incident in wildly different ways ranging from those who see absolutely nothing wrong with it to those who believe Asiata should have been punished in some way, so why should players be any different ?

As i've already said I know of 1 Saints player who is very unhappy with what Asiata did to several of his team mates, particularly that he never received any punishment for it from the disciplinary panel. No idea if that sentiment is shared by other Saints players or even by players from other clubs. Also have no idea if that player, any of his team mates or indeed any players from any other club will do anything differently next time they play Leigh & face Asiata on the pitch. But it would appear, from an outsiders POV at least that Asiata has made himself more of a target now that his tackling technique has come under public scrutiny and the fact he's caused 2 season ending injuries by it.

I said in my original post that this Saints player had said that players know they have a high chance of causing injury by tacking in the way Asiata does (both to themselves and to the ball carrier), and most avoid doing it for this reason. Asiata obviously doesn't see it this way so he can't complain if other players change their technique and start tacking him this way in future.

Let's just disect that post.

Of course this is an impact sport and quite rightly there are those who play the game hard within its legalities, we also have those who try to go one better and do something untoward but usually they get found out, we don't just have thd guy in thd middle these days writing his match report there are the Match Commisioners and the all seeing eye camera's to bring the perpetrators to justice.

In your second paragraph you are condoning there are nutters in every walk of life again I will agree, but obvious to you being a Saints fan you recognise there are some of your players more easily influenced than others.

Thirdly, yes most clubs have a stand out, who we all recognise.

Your best paragraph, it seems you are actually making excuses and actually hoping for retribution for any misdemeanors your players may exercise, and not only that you have sat in your own Kangaroo Court and want a lynch mob to execute a man already proven innocent by the governing body, just not in the upcoming game Saints v Leigh but against any team Leigh play.

I use to think you were a quite rational sort Toppy but I can see how Wellens words have got to you and altered your thinking process,  so what do you think those words will do to those further away from being rational.

Wellens and Saints will need to win the game against Leigh, it is up to him to put the player's in the right frame of mind for the job in hand, can you afford to have men sent off for going on the field with a complete irrational attitude augmented by the person who should leep them calm, and do you think the Leigh player's will turn the other cheek if they are being overly provoked?

The last man who I consider the coach got inside his head was one Ben Flower he was blowing steam out of his backside he was so fired up and we all know the consequences of that, you may well have been in attendance at that game.

And further to what Snowy says, I think it will affect the gate, If I was a coach operator and my vehicles were my livelihood I would think twice before sending them to Saints in September, all clubs have these on the terraces who don't need  much in the way of any provocation, and being alcohol fuelled won't help either.

Somebody should be having a word with Wellens whether that is McManus, Rush, or the Governing body and get him to retract the outburst, maybe even RL Cares could get involved and advise him this is not really the job that he should be part if the pressure  is getting to him so much.

[Neil Monaghan]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Let's just disect that post.

Of course this is an impact sport and quite rightly there are those who play the game hard within its legalities, we also have those who try to go one better and do something untoward but usually they get found out, we don't just have thd guy in thd middle these days writing his match report there are the Match Commisioners and the all seeing eye camera's to bring the perpetrators to justice.

In your second paragraph you are condoning there are nutters in every walk of life again I will agree, but obvious to you being a Saints fan you recognise there are some of your players more easily influenced than others.

Thirdly, yes most clubs have a stand out, who we all recognise.

Your best paragraph, it seems you are actually making excuses and actually hoping for retribution for any misdemeanors your players may exercise, and not only that you have sat in your own Kangaroo Court and want a lynch mob to execute a man already proven innocent by the governing body, just not in the upcoming game Saints v Leigh but against any team Leigh play.

I use to think you were a quite rational sort Toppy but I can see how Wellens words have got to you and altered your thinking process,  so what do you think those words will do to those further away from being rational.

Wellens and Saints will need to win the game against Leigh, it is up to him to put the player's in the right frame of mind for the job in hand, can you afford to have men sent off for going on the field with a complete irrational attitude augmented by the person who should leep them calm, and do you think the Leigh player's will turn the other cheek if they are being overly provoked?

The last man who I consider the coach got inside his head was one Ben Flower he was blowing steam out of his backside he was so fired up and we all know the consequences of that, you may well have been in attendance at that game.

And further to what Snowy says, I think it will affect the gate, If I was a coach operator and my vehicles were my livelihood I would think twice before sending them to Saints in September, all clubs have these on the terraces who don't need  much in the way of any provocation, and being alcohol fuelled won't help either.

Somebody should be having a word with Wellens whether that is McManus, Rush, or the Governing body and get him to retract the outburst, maybe even RL Cares could get involved and advise him this is not really the job that he should be part if the pressure  is getting to him so much.

Think the damage has already been done Harry, glad I'm away on holiday for that game. But after Wellens comments,I would definitely have thought twice about going .

[Superb Chops]

 

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Somebody should be having a word with Wellens whether that is McManus…

Hello Harry, maybe not McManus…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/50294156

Although, in fairness that was after a Challenge Cup final and not a semi. Completely different circumstances, I guess.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Superb Chops said:

 

Hello Harry, maybe not McManus…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/50294156

Although, in fairness that was after a Challenge Cup final and not a semi. Completely different circumstances, I guess.

Fair enough, I had forgotten about that  Choppers, but probably all the more reason Mcmanus should get involved don't you think?

[Superb Chops]

12 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fair enough, I had forgotten about that  Choppers, but probably all the more reason Mcmanus should get involved don't you think?

Only if McManus is sincere in regretting episodes like this and committed to curbing it at his club.

Otherwise, it’s merely reputation management marketing tripe. Which is commonplace and compounds the issue, I think.

Enjoy the final.