Trouble at t'mill?

[DoubleD]

My company had JP as a guest speaker at our management conference earlier. He gave a talk about high performance environment and his 12 principles. Afterwards I spoke to him about Leeds and the issues. His son Lewis is in the academy. I won’t reveal his candid thoughts as they were likely said in confidence but they mirror a lot of my thoughts 

[V02]

5 hours ago, bobbruce said:

My take on that is if Leeds were honest with  him and said he wasn’t getting a contract. He would’ve seen his contract out like most players do. It’s almost like the uncertainty about his future made him bring the situation to ahead so he could get himself sorted. 

He had certainty either way - he was free to sign elsewhere for next year. That never changed. What changed was him trying to force the club into giving him a two year deal from a couple of good games on TV, and throwing his toys out of the pram when he didn't get it.

5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Totally agree, another genius idea though that has totally worked and probably not damaged our reputation

So clubs should tell everyone that they aren't being renewed on May 1st, regardless of all potential movement in the transfer market on both sides of the world?

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

My company had JP as a guest speaker at our management conference earlier. He gave a talk about high performance environment and his 12 principles. Afterwards I spoke to him about Leeds and the issues. His son Lewis is in the academy. I won’t reveal his candid thoughts as they were likely said in confidence but they mirror a lot of my thoughts 

Then share your own thoughts, otherwise it's meaningless. JP still does lots of corporate work for Rhinos doesn't he?

[Hopie]

15 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

But like Sezer and the other off contract players he was welcome to explore other opportunities, Leeds aren’t under any obligation to offer the players contracts at a specific time, as long as they say they can explore their other options they aren’t doing anything wrong, it happens at a lot of clubs.

Look I get it, this is the internet so there has to only 2 sides to any discussion and you are supposed to "pick a side", but the question was why Austin left, not if Leeds are right to do this or not. From a player's perspective his actions seemed logical to me, and for others to suggest he is in the wrong for leaving in this scenario seems to me harsh at best.

Leeds were better with Austin than without him this year, but they can certainly do better in most positions based on their current squad so its arguable either way if they should offer him a deal or not. I think they should have been more open about their positions, but recruitment and retention hasn't been a strong point at Headingley for many years now, there are plenty of reasons for that, and I doubt all of them are public knowledge.

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, V02 said:

So clubs should tell everyone that they aren't being renewed on May 1st, regardless of all potential movement in the transfer market on both sides of the world?

No, but we shouldn't be keeping up the pretence that we "might" sign them, without even a most basic offer made, till 4 weeks before the end of the season either. RL players don't earn enough for that uncertainty.

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Hes been hit and miss for the last two years, Im not sure we should be handing out two year contracts to a 34 year old which would use a quota spot, no matter how many kids he’s got, but each to their own.

Did playing for GB not relive him from being a quota player?

Honest question.

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Did playing for GB not relive him from being a quota player?

Honest question.

No, the quota spots are for non-federation (ie RL European Federation) trained players.

[Harry Stottle]

Austen is now history and the why he left or was allowed to leave can be debated till the cows come home, so back to the OP, what's the latest on Nene Macdonald, apologies if I have missed the latest instalment.

[phiggins]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Did playing for GB not relive him from being a quota player?

Honest question.

Overseas player doesn't really have anything to do with where you're from, or who you qualify to play for. It's all down to where you played your junior rugby. That's why Lachlan Lam doesn't count as a non-fed trained player, because he went to St. Pats while his dad was playing for Wigan.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

No, the quota spots are for non-federation (ie RL European Federation) trained players.

Thanks I thought that may be the case but wasn't sure.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Overseas player doesn't really have anything to do with where you're from, or who you qualify to play for. It's all down to where you played your junior rugby. That's why Lachlan Lam doesn't count as a non-fed trained player, because he went to St. Pats while his dad was playing for Wigan.

Yeah that is a technicality that I am happy to say worked in Leigh's favour.

[redjonn]

13 hours ago, Hopie said:

Look I get it, this is the internet so there has to only 2 sides to any discussion and you are supposed to "pick a side", but the question was why Austin left, not if Leeds are right to do this or not. From a player's perspective his actions seemed logical to me, and for others to suggest he is in the wrong for leaving in this scenario seems to me harsh at best.

Leeds were better with Austin than without him this year, but they can certainly do better in most positions based on their current squad so its arguable either way if they should offer him a deal or not. I think they should have been more open about their positions, but recruitment and retention hasn't been a strong point at Headingley for many years now, there are plenty of reasons for that, and I doubt all of them are public knowledge.

Your right that Austin made a logical choice in that from my understanding he wanted at least a 2 year deal and wanted his contract position sorted sooner than Leeds seemed to want to sort and considering his family needs for some sort of certainty as to going back to Australia or not.

I am not as sure that any logic would suggest that airing his views on Sky/in public would have helped his cause assuming he preferred to stay at Leeds.

I am not as certain as you that Leeds had been better with Austin except for a very few games if we look across the whole season he was playing. Accepting the fact that Leeds recent performances have been particular poor and they lack options for half back through more recent injuries.  Austin period in SL has always seemed to me to be a player that one could describe as "flatters to deceive" and despite the occasional good performance which is often not more  than a big booming high kick with no end result with regard to consistency. I would have been surprised that Leeds would want to give him a 2 year contract and hence the situation materialised as it did and he took the right option for himself and family.

Anyway apart from Austin situation one can not disagree that Leeds recruitment and retention over recent years has been poor. In particular signing of experienced higher level players needed to complement and carry the developing youngsters.

[phiggins]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yeah that is a technicality that I am happy to say worked in Leigh's favour.

Shame we didn't make the most of the quota spot freed up, given the amount that Ava has played.

[Chrispmartha]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

Your right that Austin made a logical choice in that from my understanding he wanted at least a 2 year deal and wanted his contract position sorted sooner than Leeds seemed to want to sort and considering his family needs for some sort of certainty as to going back to Australia or not.

I am not as sure that any logic would suggest that airing his views on Sky/in public would have helped his cause assuming he preferred to stay at Leeds.

I am not as certain as you that Leeds had been better with Austin except for a very few games if we look across the whole season he was playing. Accepting the fact that Leeds recent performances have been particular poor and they lack options for half back through more recent injuries.  Austin period in SL has always seemed to me to be a player that one could describe as "flatters to deceive" and despite the occasional good performance which is often not more  than a big booming high kick with no end result with regard to consistency. I would have been surprised that Leeds would want to give him a 2 year contract and hence the situation materialised as it did and he took the right option for himself and family.

Anyway apart from Austin situation one can not disagree that Leeds recruitment and retention over recent years has been poor. In particular signing of experienced higher level players needed to complement and carry the developing youngsters.

I don't think Austin has signed a deal anywhere yet either - well he's signed a deal with a hair transplant company! must be something in the water in Cas.

[Chrispmartha]

 

What's that about other clubs informing their departing players well before the end of the season? And Leeds being terrible?

Edited September 21, 2023 by Chrispmartha

[Tommygilf]

 

Interesting Q&A.

Particularly interesting comments around signing the "right people" and who has calls on what. GH seems very keen to give Rohan Smith the ability to call the shots, Smith in his interviews suggests the opposite regularly. GH is also talking up Lachlan Miller a lot, has it been clarified if he is a marquee signing? One of Frawley's best qualities is that he is a good bloke.

I personally find the "right type of person" comments laughable when on of the only significant signings of note, ie into the 1st XIII from last season, and indeed the resigning on a 4 year deal mere months ago, was Nene Macdonald.

[M j M]

Miller is not a marquee signing.

[Tommygilf]

59 minutes ago, M j M said:

Miller is not a marquee signing.

I hope not, but has that been explicitly stated?

[idrewthehaggis]

On 19/09/2023 at 21:56, DoubleD said:

My company had JP as a guest speaker at our management conference earlier. He gave a talk about high performance environment and his 12 principles. Afterwards I spoke to him about Leeds and the issues. His son Lewis is in the academy. I won’t reveal his candid thoughts as they were likely said in confidence but they mirror a lot of my thoughts 

Fair does, in a nutshell, what are your views?

[northamptoncougar]

Leeds could do a lot worse than signing McGilvery as a back up winger, a positive influence and a load of experience 

[M j M]

He'd be a nice luxury to have but better to leave that space open for a younger squad member. We've got two first choice wingers and our roving spare back Olpherts - assuming he stays. Any spare salary cap needs spending on proper priorities tbh.

[DoubleD]

On 06/10/2023 at 15:39, idrewthehaggis said:

Fair does, in a nutshell, what are your views?

• Lack of leadership and direction
• No succession planning either in players or coaches
• Standards dropping and creeping acceptance of mediocrity
• GH was grooming Sinfield as his replacement. When Sinfield decided he preferred to be a coach, GH has not sought out another successor and fresh ideas/vision are required
• Agar was brought in to be Director of Rugby. When he took on the head coach role, no replacement was sought. All power now rests in the head coach, now Smith. Too much power in one person's hands
• Poor recruitment/player identification and retention

[Chrispmartha]

14 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

• Lack of leadership and direction
• No succession planning either in players or coaches
• Standards dropping and creeping acceptance of mediocrity
• GH was grooming Sinfield as his replacement. When Sinfield decided he preferred to be a coach, GH has not sought out another successor and fresh ideas/vision are required
• Agar was brought in to be Director of Rugby. When he took on the head coach role, no replacement was sought. All power now rests in the head coach, now Smith. Too much power in one person's hands
• Poor recruitment/player identification and retention

 

Agar was never brought in as Director of Rugby, Kevin Sinfield was Director of Rugby, and he gave Agar the coaching job after taking over as Interim coach when Furner was sacked.

Agar was something to do with youth development.

[DoubleD]

37 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

 

Agar was never brought in as Director of Rugby, Kevin Sinfield was Director of Rugby, and he gave Agar the coaching job after taking over as Interim coach when Furner was sacked.

Agar was something to do with youth development.

He was brought in as Head of player and coach development, with him set to take over the Director of Rugby role from Sinfield when he succeeded GH. Neither of which happened 

[V02]

On 06/10/2023 at 12:45, M j M said:

Miller is not a marquee signing.

Based on what?