NFL

[THE RED ROOSTER]

On 22/10/2024 at 09:02, Gerrumonside ref said:

I remember attending a London Monarchs vs New York/New Jersey Knights match in that first season when I think I’m right in thinking the Monarchs later defeated the Barcelona Dragons in the first World Bowl.

Although there were many failings with the World League, I still remember feeling pretty excited at its inception although when the American element quickly folded it lost its lustre for me.

Part of the problem with the Monarchs at Wembley (season ticket holder) was that quite a few tickets were being given out free on LBC IIRC which antagonised those of us who paid.

After the first season, when the idea was floated thatr the World League Champions London Monarchs should take on the then worst side in the NFL.... The New England Patriots.... Two problems dogged the league

Firstly, Players making it clear the league was just a stepping stone to the NFL and the churn in the rosters

Secondly, the disparaging comments in the USA about what they called the WLAFF gave the league the "ratners effect"

As for Britball, the initial enthusiasm was tainted by the numbers of egos and leagues that started up. In those days it was the London Ravens and the London Olympians who wre the standout sides. Only the Olympians remain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAFA_National_Leagues

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Miami Dolphins confirm they wil be playing overseas in 2025 to their Season Ticket holders - Probably the Madrid game

https://www.thephinsider.com/2024/10/25/24279444/nfl-schedule-2025-international-series-miami-dolphins-home-game-spain-england

I still think Cincinatti Benglas will be coming over, last here in 2016. They have a clause in their stadium contract that allows for overseas games

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-new-lease-allows-them-to-play-international-home-games/

Trade deadline on 5th November, some teams already shedding veterans for draft picks. it reduces their spend in the salary cap in doing so for Rookie contracts are cheaper than veteran ones.

Ever since the Dophins tanking probe back in 2022 teams have been wary of being seen publicly to be going for a high draft pick https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/02/us/nfl-miami-dolphins-suspend/index.html

Nevertheless there appears to be a lot of organic tanking going on. This is when you know the roster you have is not good enough and you let the season play out without making any attempts to strengthen your squad. so you get a high draft pick or dispense with key players for picks A charge notably sticking to the Dallas Cowboys this season though they are not alone this season (e.g Cleveland).

There is even a tankathon webnsite where you can see just how badly your side performs and where it gets them in the draft. https://www.tankathon.com/nfl 

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

43 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Part of the problem with the Monarchs at Wembley (season ticket holder) was that quite a few tickets were being given out free on LBC IIRC which antagonised those of us who paid.

After the first season, when the idea was floated thatr the World League Champions London Monarchs should take on the then worst side in the NFL.... The New England Patriots.... Two problems dogged the league

Firstly, Players making it clear the league was just a stepping stone to the NFL and the churn in the rosters

Secondly, the disparaging comments in the USA about what they called the WLAFF gave the league the "ratners effect"

As for Britball, the initial enthusiasm was tainted by the numbers of egos and leagues that started up. In those days it was the London Ravens and the London Olympians who wre the standout sides. Only the Olympians remain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAFA_National_Leagues

I actually saw the Streatham Olympians play the Manchester Spartans (or maybe All Stars - it was one of them) at Boundary Park in Oldham.

Pretty sure it was a playoff game and the Manchester team won although we got chatting to some Olympian fans who made the journey up and they assured us we had no chance of beating the London Ravens.

The Spartans or All Stars lost away to the Birmingham Bulls in the next round anyway before having a chance to play the London Ravens (I think, it was a long time ago)

I do remember attending a Manchester All Stars vs London Ravens final at Loftus Rd during the height of that period so there were definitely powerful teams outside London although none better than the Ravens.

Edited October 30 by Gerrumonside ref

[Maximus Decimus]

So I've been watching a lot more NFL this year and there are still a couple of things I don't understand.

Sometimes there'll be a situation where the attacking team is something like 2nd and 10, and there'll be an incompletion but a flag will come in against the attacking team. The refs will come in and say something like '5 yard penalty, repeat 2nd down.' As a fan, I'm always disappointed by this because I feel like the attacking team has another shot at it and I'd rather see a 3rd and 10. I understand that they can decline it, but in situations like that they don't seem to very often.

The second one is a bit more technical. Sometimes the attacking team is trying to get going quickly because the clock is winding down. However, when I've seen it, they seem to have to wait for the referee or the defense or something like that before they can snap the ball. What exactly are the rules regarding when they can and when they can't snap?

[Maximus Decimus]

Oh wow, this is the most Jets performance ever.

They penalise the kicker on a 4th and 21.

They bombed a touchdown by the runner letting go of the ball thinking he'd scored.

Bodies are falling all over the place.

Somehow it's still 0-0 but not for long I suspect.

[Maximus Decimus]

What a bizarre game.

Following on from the errors of the first half and a very stop start affair, we saw a decent second half with a few excellent TDs by the Jets.

However, at 14-10 the Texans had about a 45yd field goal that they got to make it 14-13. Unexpectedly, a flag came out and the Texans were given a 1st down so back to 14-10. They don't make anything of it, and the kicker comes out again but hits the post off a 26 yarder! The Jets went up the field and scored to end it as a contest.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

13 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

So I've been watching a lot more NFL this year and there are still a couple of things I don't understand.

Sometimes there'll be a situation where the attacking team is something like 2nd and 10, and there'll be an incompletion but a flag will come in against the attacking team. The refs will come in and say something like '5 yard penalty, repeat 2nd down.' As a fan, I'm always disappointed by this because I feel like the attacking team has another shot at it and I'd rather see a 3rd and 10. I understand that they can decline it, but in situations like that they don't seem to very often.

The second one is a bit more technical. Sometimes the attacking team is trying to get going quickly because the clock is winding down. However, when I've seen it, they seem to have to wait for the referee or the defense or something like that before they can snap the ball. What exactly are the rules regarding when they can and when they can't snap?

 

The answer to your first question  is that you would want a repeat second down with the ball five yards further advanced because it increases your options to either run the ball, pass the ball, or go play action * which means the Quarterback has the option to either run or pass depending on how the situation evolves before him. If you went to 3rd and 10 your basically telling the opposition it is going to be a passing play.

The key is to look at the two safeties that are lined up 10-15 yards behind the defensive line and not always visible on the TV screen (most sport is better live) if the safeties are coming forward it's a running play (i.e 3rd and 2) if the safeties are going back its a passing play (i.e 3rd and 15). A situation where you are 3rd and 5 leaves the safeties in a quandry as to the obvious play from the offence.

On your second question, the Umpire has to place the ball where the knee of the last offensive player to touch the ball landed. The attacjing team cannot do this so as to prevent an illegal advantage. The most notorious example of this was the Dallas v San Francisco playoff game in 2021 when Dallas went too far for the official to keep up.

Dak Prescott STUPIDLY runs on final play of Cowboys-49ers game, killing clock with no time left

* Play action is sometimes called RPO (Run, Pass, Option)

[THE RED ROOSTER]

On 30/10/2024 at 10:55, Gerrumonside ref said:

I actually saw the Streatham Olympians play the Manchester Spartans (or maybe All Stars - it was one of them) at Boundary Park in Oldham.

Pretty sure it was a playoff game and the Manchester team won although we got chatting to some Olympian fans who made the journey up and they assured us we had no chance of beating the London Ravens.

The Spartans or All Stars lost away to the Birmingham Bulls in the next round anyway before having a chance to play the London Ravens (I think, it was a long time ago)

I do remember attending a Manchester All Stars vs London Ravens final at Loftus Rd during the height of that period so there were definitely powerful teams outside London although none better than the Ravens.

Those were the days. The London Ravens were the first established UK American Football club. If IIRC they scrimmaged against USAF Chicksands way back in 1983. They were the early pacesetters with a fan club called the "Raven loonies" and a mascot in "Ronald Raven" and were the first "Britball" champions.

https://www.britishamericanfootball.org/2022/10/pioneering-ravens-remembered-a-celebration-of-black-history-month/

If they ever establsh two franchises in London (one at Spurs and one at Wembley). As a traditionalist, I do think they should be named London Moinarchs and London Ravens to honour the games past in this country.

[Gerrumonside ref]

51 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Those were the days. The London Ravens were the first established UK American Football club. If IIRC they scrimmaged against USAF Chicksands way back in 1983. They were the early pacesetters with a fan club called the "Raven loonies" and a mascot in "Ronald Raven" and were the first "Britball" champions.

https://www.britishamericanfootball.org/2022/10/pioneering-ravens-remembered-a-celebration-of-black-history-month/

If they ever establsh two franchises in London (one at Spurs and one at Wembley). As a traditionalist, I do think they should be named London Moinarchs and London Ravens to honour the games past in this country.

Yeah, great times.  I like your idea - Baltimore people might not!

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

 

The answer to your first question  is that you would want a repeat second down with the ball five yards further advanced because it increases your options to either run the ball, pass the ball, or go play action * which means the Quarterback has the option to either run or pass depending on how the situation evolves before him. If you went to 3rd and 10 your basically telling the opposition it is going to be a passing play.

The key is to look at the two safeties that are lined up 10-15 yards behind the defensive line and not always visible on the TV screen (most sport is better live) if the safeties are coming forward it's a running play (i.e 3rd and 2) if the safeties are going back its a passing play (i.e 3rd and 15). A situation where you are 3rd and 5 leaves the safeties in a quandry as to the obvious play from the offence.

On your second question, the Umpire has to place the ball where the knee of the last offensive player to touch the ball landed. The attacjing team cannot do this so as to prevent an illegal advantage. The most notorious example of this was the Dallas v San Francisco playoff game in 2021 when Dallas went too far for the official to keep up.

Dak Prescott STUPIDLY runs on final play of Cowboys-49ers game, killing clock with no time left

* Play action is sometimes called RPO (Run, Pass, Option)

I was going to have a try at answering these questions too, but this is summed up perfectly!

[Maximus Decimus]

1 hour ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

 

The answer to your first question  is that you would want a repeat second down with the ball five yards further advanced because it increases your options to either run the ball, pass the ball, or go play action * which means the Quarterback has the option to either run or pass depending on how the situation evolves before him. If you went to 3rd and 10 your basically telling the opposition it is going to be a passing play.

The key is to look at the two safeties that are lined up 10-15 yards behind the defensive line and not always visible on the TV screen (most sport is better live) if the safeties are coming forward it's a running play (i.e 3rd and 2) if the safeties are going back its a passing play (i.e 3rd and 15). A situation where you are 3rd and 5 leaves the safeties in a quandry as to the obvious play from the offence.

On your second question, the Umpire has to place the ball where the knee of the last offensive player to touch the ball landed. The attacjing team cannot do this so as to prevent an illegal advantage. The most notorious example of this was the Dallas v San Francisco playoff game in 2021 when Dallas went too far for the official to keep up.

Dak Prescott STUPIDLY runs on final play of Cowboys-49ers game, killing clock with no time left

* Play action is sometimes called RPO (Run, Pass, Option)

Thanks for this, although I was specifically meaning from the defense POV. I feel like I quite regularly see the above situation, and I'm disappointed because it is still a second down whereas if they declined the penalty it would now be third down. I understand that they know what they are doing, but I always feel like the extra 5 yards isn't worth the attacking team having a least 2 more shots at the first down. 

As for the second example, I think this is what I suspected it might be although I felt like maybe the defense had to have a certain number of players set. I do remember the Dak example but tbh it seems pretty fraught and dependent on how quick the Umpire is. I take it once the Umpire has placed the ball down, they are free to snap it as long as the attacking team doesn't have too many players on the field? 

[Maximus Decimus]

They mentioned something on Thursday's game about how the Jets would have a 28% chance of making the playoffs if they won.

I looked it up and saw that they were right, but also that the Bears (who at the time were 4-3) had only a 5% chance. A big part of this is their run-in as they have the Lions, Packers and Vikings still to play twice.

However, it also turns out the NFC is looking a lot stronger than the AFC this year once you take out the Chiefs and the Bills. There's a real chance a team at 8-9 could make the playoffs in the AFC but they'll need at least 11-6 in the NFC.

[Gerrumonside ref]

4 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

They mentioned something on Thursday's game about how the Jets would have a 28% chance of making the playoffs if they won.

I looked it up and saw that they were right, but also that the Bears (who at the time were 4-3) had only a 5% chance. A big part of this is their run-in as they have the Lions, Packers and Vikings still to play twice.

However, it also turns out the NFC is looking a lot stronger than the AFC this year once you take out the Chiefs and the Bills. There's a real chance a team at 8-9 could make the playoffs in the AFC but they'll need at least 11-6 in the NFC.

Perhaps the Ravens too need to be namechecked in the AFC.

Edited November 4 by Gerrumonside ref

[Irish Saint]

One of our tipsters who has been with us from the start is in Florida at the moment.  He is attending Buccaneers \49ers today and next Sunday at Dolphins \ Raiders hopefully he'll post reports of his experience at the games.

[redsi42]

I had a great day at the Bucs yesterday.  I’ve been lucky enough to see a few games in the US but they have all been over halfway through the fourth quarter, the fans loose interest and the stadium empties out, not yesterday… 

My wife is a 49ers fan and we were sat amongst some very passionate fans from both teams but I’d say there were more 49ers fans.  It got fairly heated towards the end of the game and one 49ers fan wasn’t happy about the penalties going against the 9ers and let everyone know but it didn’t feel like he was directing his frustrations at anyone but the field.  We got to see some great at plays and fantastic ending.  I’d have put money on it going to overtime.  

My only gripe would be the lack of shade. It was very hot.  But the NFL really do put on slick experience, the three hours flew by.  There was always something going on in between plays a lot of it around the pirate ship and the row of seats near us that all won a beer.  

Heading over to Miami to watch the Dolphins next Sunday. I’m not sure they’ll have much to play for after tonight’s game, but I’m still looking forward to it.  I haven’t see them lose at the Hard Rock and I’m hoping this time will be no different. 
 

 

 

Edited November 11 by redsi42

[Gerrumonside ref]

16 hours ago, redsi42 said:

I had a great day at the Bucs yesterday.  I’ve been lucky enough to see a few games in the US but they have all been over halfway through the fourth quarter, the fans loose interest and the stadium empties out, not yesterday… 

My wife is a 49ers fan and we were sat amongst some very passionate fans from both teams but I’d say there were more 49ers fans.  It got fairly heated towards the end of the game and one 49ers fan wasn’t happy about the penalties going against the 9ers and let everyone know but it didn’t feel like he was directing his frustrations at anyone but the field.  We got to see some great at plays and fantastic ending.  I’d have put money on it going to overtime.  

My only gripe would be the lack of shade. It was very hot.  But the NFL really do put on slick experience, the three hours flew by.  There was always something going on in between plays a lot of it around the pirate ship and the row of seats near us that all won a beer.  

Heading over to Miami to watch the Dolphins next Sunday. I’m not sure they’ll have much to play for after tonight’s game, but I’m still looking forward to it.  I haven’t see them lose at the Hard Rock and I’m hoping this time will be no different. 
 

 

 

 Nice one mate

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Time was when it was the Monday after the last game of the regular season that coaches and Chief Executives got fired.

But in light of the unsuccessful coaching changes at Nee York Jets and New Orleans Saints it s worth keeping your eye on the following:

Doug Pedersen at Jacksonville.The Jags were expected to contend this year and despite losing a lot of close games, the Jags have a losing record.

Kevin Stefanski at Cleveland. A coach who has to.pay the price of the Haslams decision to engage the morally dubious Deshawn Watson on big money when Watson  now injured fir the season has not delelivered.

Mike McCarthy at Dallas. Again withiut a quarterback and with an owner seemingly interested in "organic tanking" i.e. not adding to a side not good enough.

Brian Daboll at New York Giants is another with his future in doubt and certainly Daniel Jones will not be the quarterback there next year.

Looming all over this is Bill Belichek, currently unemployed but who  comes with a health check not so much due to being 72(with a 24 year old girlfriend) but because as Jeff Rheinbold one put it at an NFL UK gathering I was at. There is only one Hall of Fame Coach in Mike Ditka who did not have a Hll of Fame Quarterback.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[redsi42]

I wouldn’t be surprised after todays results if there isn’t at least one change at head coach this week.  Doug Peterson sounds like he’s expecting to be out of a job this week.

[The Masked Poster]

I've just been to Las Vegas and just have to stick my oar in here. 

I'm not really a fan of gridiron, although I don't hate it or anything. But I've been blown away by the interest in American Football in general. You can't move for screens showing games from all levels of the game. Basketball and other US Sports feature widely (obviously) but I've never seen anything like it. On the Sunday, when I was in a bar watching a live game (well I was half watching) the reaction was absolutely insane, people shouting and whooping loudly etc. I'd say this eclipsed even football fans watching big matches in the UK or Europe. 

Yes, it was Vegas but I was assured that if anything, it was quite reserved and was typical for the whole USA. 

CRAZY. 

[Irish Saint]

NFL Trivia

When scoring at least 33 points this season

Cincinnati Bengals 2-3

Rest of the NFL 38-1

Edited November 19 by Irish Saint

[Wolford6]

I've been a big fan of the Chiefs since the days of Christian Okoye and Dante Hall. Their current 12 - 1 record has guaranteed play-off spot., I think their season is falling apart. The team is scrambling for fourth-quarter victories and, if they hadn't signedthe veteran  Deandre Hopkins mid season, they'd have lost a few more.

[tim2]

I'd like to see Detroit win it this time. It would be like Huddersfield winning the SL Grand Final. The American system is meant to even things out but it's as if that has passed Detroit by.

[tim2]

On 30/10/2024 at 10:36, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Miami Dolphins confirm they wil be playing overseas in 2025 to their Season Ticket holders - Probably the Madrid game

https://www.thephinsider.com/2024/10/25/24279444/nfl-schedule-2025-international-series-miami-dolphins-home-game-spain-england

I still think Cincinatti Benglas will be coming over, last here in 2016. They have a clause in their stadium contract that allows for overseas games

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-new-lease-allows-them-to-play-international-home-games/

Trade deadline on 5th November, some teams already shedding veterans for draft picks. it reduces their spend in the salary cap in doing so for Rookie contracts are cheaper than veteran ones.

Ever since the Dophins tanking probe back in 2022 teams have been wary of being seen publicly to be going for a high draft pick https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/02/us/nfl-miami-dolphins-suspend/index.html

Nevertheless there appears to be a lot of organic tanking going on. This is when you know the roster you have is not good enough and you let the season play out without making any attempts to strengthen your squad. so you get a high draft pick or dispense with key players for picks A charge notably sticking to the Dallas Cowboys this season though they are not alone this season (e.g Cleveland).

There is even a tankathon webnsite where you can see just how badly your side performs and where it gets them in the draft. https://www.tankathon.com/nfl 

 

The downside of the draft, and a lesser danger in SL too if a team isn't going to make the playoffs they can let the season drift out rather than making any signings.

[Irish Saint]

Detroit's problem could be an increasing number of injuries on defensive starters.

Defense wins Superbowls, as Joe Burrow and Josh Allen are discovering.

HTF can Allen throw for three touchdowns, run for three  more, have no interceptions and Buffalo lose.

Personally , would like to see a Buffalo \Detroit Superbowl tho i think their game this Sunday may be as close as we get to that happening.

 

[Maximus Decimus]

On 09/12/2024 at 05:20, Wolford6 said:

I've been a big fan of the Chiefs since the days of Christian Okoye and Dante Hall. Their current 12 - 1 record has guaranteed play-off spot., I think their season is falling apart. The team is scrambling for fourth-quarter victories and, if they hadn't signedthe veteran  Deandre Hopkins mid season, they'd have lost a few more.

They have been remarkably lucky so far, and it seems improbable that they can win playing this way.

They're like the opposite of the Jets, who despite being 3-10 have lost 7 of their games by less than a score and are only -49 in points difference. If you take out the Arizona game, this is -23 over a 3-9 record.