London (Merged Threads)

[Rovers13]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Did I miss the actual scores required for clubs to be graded A, B, C or Don’t Bother?

I don’t understand why people automatically think London Broncos won’t be graded high enough to remain in SL.

If London are in the top 12 clubs based on what we know in the public domain on gradings then it’s fixed, as the top 12 will surely be the usual 11 plus wakey? You have to remember the grading is over a 3 year period (the last 3 years) so surely the 12 SL clubs outscore anyone else. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Rovers13

[Toby Chopra]

15 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

When some of the releases relating to how the grading system will work appeared included was a graphic that showed a bunch of grading scores in descending order with a cutoff after the 12th highest determining the initial 12 in SL (or whatever they decide to re-brand to) for 2025. This along with replies to club-made inquiries from Championship clubs, as to whether a grade B club that won a Championship GF would replace a grade B club in SL, created the impression that the 12 constituent clubs in any given year will be determined solely on the basis of being in possession of one of the 12 highest grading scores.

This along with the lack of any weighting mechanisms for non-SL clubs means that the system heavily favours clubs that have spent more of the preceding 3 seasons in SL. This then leads everyone to the conclusion that London will have a difficult time overhauling the deficit in grading scores vs Wakefield or any other contenders for the SL places available for B grade clubs. All other contenders will have had more seasons in SL than London and thus will get higher points for categories like performance (Wakefield get more points for being 12th in SL this year than Fev get for topping the Championship table), attendance, tv coverage etc. This combined with a poor finishing position in 2022 for London means that even if they achieve what Leigh did next year they will still likely struggle to make up the deficit and secure one of the 12 highest grading scores.

It is expected that merely being in SL next year and being graded in the Bs will not suffice to keep that SL place. London (or any other SL club) will need to be one of 12 highest scoring clubs out of 34 to retain their place no matter how well (or poorly they perform).

Correct 

[Derwent Parker]

13 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Correct 

Still

"hypothetically"  if London finish say 10th in SL and Wakefield dont finish top in Champ, and replace London with "gradings" there's a good chance that is when the proverbial will hit the fan?

[40yearsatlondon]

On 15/10/2023 at 17:58, Rovers13 said:

Then it’s fixed! 

possibly...but IMG want it and toulouse at some point....and they will get there wish

[40yearsatlondon]

17 hours ago, binosh said:

Don’t forget your coach Michael Eccles is a Leigh lad born and bred. He’s doing great things.

mike is a lovely guy too 

[Guest]

Born in Leigh.

Made in London.

[40yearsatlondon]

On 16/10/2023 at 10:59, GeordieSaint said:

Don’t know many of those Aussie names but I’d definitely be after those highlighted in bold. Cust for example would do a great job. I’d also be putting a cheeky bid in for Ralphs from TO…

good call on cust and ralphs

[Toby Chopra]

14 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Still

"hypothetically"  if London finish say 10th in SL and Wakefield dont finish top in Champ, and replace London with "gradings" there's a good chance that is when the proverbial will hit the fan?

Some will no doubt throw a wobbly, as they do with most things.

But this is the scenario that was voted for and was always quite likely in this transition year. 

As someone who on balance is in favour of the gradings system I'd be a hypocrite if I suddenly went cold on it because a southern team is the one affected.

Let's face it, a month ago no-one was even considering this scenario because London being promoted was so unlikely - which frankly is an indication of how thin London's foundations are.

[40yearsatlondon]

On 16/10/2023 at 11:38, Rovers13 said:

This I don’t understand, yes london got promoted but they are not better prepared than fev or Toulouse would have been. 

they certainly were over the last 15/16 games...way fitter thats for sure

[40yearsatlondon]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Born in Leigh.

Made in London.

yep

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

 

Let's face it, a month ago no-one was even considering this scenario because London being promoted was so unlikely - which frankly is an indication of how thin London's foundations are.

"Cough cough." About a month ago I questioned exactly this scenario.

[40yearsatlondon]

14 hours ago, Hopie said:

Gotta find a way to bump up those London scores! 

hate to say it......but you are probably very close to the truth!!!

[Toby Chopra]

8 minutes ago, 40yearsatlondon said:

possibly...but IMG want it and toulouse at some point....and they will get there wish

If IMG really wanted London and Toulouse in they would have set up the criteria to enable that in the first place - it's their system so they could have done whatever they wanted. But when we looked at the system one of the most striking things is how little it offers such teams.

IMG have vaguely talked about London being a target market but nothing up till now has done anything to support that, while they've never talked about France.

I don't think teams like London and Toulouse are priorities for them at all.

[40yearsatlondon]

1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

If IMG really wanted London and Toulouse in they would have set up the criteria to enable that in the first place - it's their system so they could have done whatever they wanted. But when we looked at the system one of the most striking things is how little it offers such teams.

IMG have vaguely talked about London being a target market but nothing up till now has done anything to support that, while they've never talked about France.

I don't think teams like London and Toulouse are priorities for them at all.

 

1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

If IMG really wanted London and Toulouse in they would have set up the criteria to enable that in the first place - it's their system so they could have done whatever they wanted. But when we looked at the system one of the most striking things is how little it offers such teams.

IMG have vaguely talked about London being a target market but nothing up till now has done anything to support that, while they've never talked about France.

I don't think teams like London and Toulouse are priorities for them at all.

mmmmmm wait and see

[The Blues Ox]

Interesting if you compare Bradford and London, as PH has mentioned on numerous occasions the ranking system when it comes to location looks very much set out to the purpose of giving Bradford a slight advantage over other teams and London will likely score top points in that regard but in other areas I'm really not sure how London could even outscore Bradford and I don't see Bradford been that close to getting in to the 12.

I really can't wait till the 1st set of gradings come out, we are going to have a right fallout and no doubt numerous clubs will dispute their gradings and then over the next few months we will see what lengths teams will go to manipulate their gradings.

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, The Blues Ox said:

Interesting if you compare Bradford and London, as PH has mentioned on numerous occasions the ranking system when it comes to location looks very much set out to the purpose of giving Bradford a slight advantage over other teams and London will likely score top points in that regard but in other areas I'm really not sure how London could even outscore Bradford and I don't see Bradford been that close to getting in to the 12.

I really can't wait till the 1st set of gradings come out, we are going to have a right fallout and no doubt numerous clubs will dispute their gradings and then over the next few months we will see what lengths teams will go to manipulate their gradings.

This for me too oxy, and I’m waiting to see the fallout from owners too because if I got a C I’d be off quicker Than Usain Bolt lol. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Interesting if you compare Bradford and London, as PH has mentioned on numerous occasions the ranking system when it comes to location looks very much set out to the purpose of giving Bradford a slight advantage over other teams and London will likely score top points in that regard but in other areas I'm really not sure how London could even outscore Bradford and I don't see Bradford been that close to getting in to the 12.

I really can't wait till the 1st set of gradings come out, we are going to have a right fallout and no doubt numerous clubs will dispute their gradings and then over the next few months we will see what lengths teams will go to manipulate their gradings.

Ground? Results? Maybe even home grown?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Leonard

[Toby Chopra]

58 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

This for me too oxy, and I’m waiting to see the fallout from owners too because if I got a C I’d be off quicker Than Usain Bolt lol. 

No owner should be surprised at their own grading as they already have all the information at hand to work it out. If they haven't it's on them. It's just the other clubs' gradings they won't know at this point.

As for Grade C's - all Grade C really means is you're not eligible for Superleague, and those clubs that are the likely C's are way off that anyway.

Any owner who chucks in the towel when the gradings come out was already planning to bolt and was just looking for an excuse.

[Dovster]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

If IMG really wanted London and Toulouse in they would have set up the criteria to enable that in the first place - it's their system so they could have done whatever they wanted. But when we looked at the system one of the most striking things is how little it offers such teams.

IMG have vaguely talked about London being a target market but nothing up till now has done anything to support that, while they've never talked about France.

I don't think teams like London and Toulouse are priorities for them at all.

Although I agree that it is IMG's system. They still needed to get it past a vote.

[Toby Chopra]

7 minutes ago, Dovster said:

Although I agree that it is IMG's system. They still needed to get it past a vote.

Agreed. But that shows they can't just change it on a whim.

IMG should be smart enough to see that an underpowered London team isn't something that they can hang any London strategy on, so they won't go out of their way to try and keep them in.

[Dovster]

5 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Agreed. But that shows they can't just change it on a whim.

IMG should be smart enough to see that an underpowered London team isn't something that they can hang any London strategy on, so they won't go out of their way to try and keep them in.

i guess the devils in the grading.

We don't know how much would London have to improve to not be relegated (through the grading process) and the possibility that substantial growth could be blocked.

[wiganermike]

2 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

If IMG really wanted London and Toulouse in they would have set up the criteria to enable that in the first place - it's their system so they could have done whatever they wanted. But when we looked at the system one of the most striking things is how little it offers such teams.

IMG have vaguely talked about London being a target market but nothing up till now has done anything to support that, while they've never talked about France.

I don't think teams like London and Toulouse are priorities for them at all.

This is true. Identifying London as a target market doesn't necessarily mean needing London Broncos to be in the top tier. London growing their business enough to be judged to be worthy of a place in the top 12 under the grading system would likely be a consequence, down the line, of that market having been adequately and consistently tapped.

London has been shown to be a good place to attract healthy crowds for internationals. Perhaps the strategy that IMG have in mind to tap into the London market is more geared towards placing internationals and club events (such as Magic or whatever they plan to replace it with) in the capital. Using one or two day eye catching events to engage the London public rather than forcibly trying to engineer a place in the top tier for a London club before they are adequately equipped, or the potential London market has been engaged enough, to take advantage of the opportunity a SL place would present.

[Rovers13]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

No owner should be surprised at their own grading as they already have all the information at hand to work it out. If they haven't it's on them. It's just the other clubs' gradings they won't know at this point.

As for Grade C's - all Grade C really means is you're not eligible for Superleague, and those clubs that are the likely C's are way off that anyway.

Any owner who chucks in the towel when the gradings come out was already planning to bolt and was just looking for an excuse.

That makes a lot of sense when you put it like that mate. 

[wasginger]

We can all speculate about the grading London will get, but there's one thing no-one can deny, is that they won the right to go into SL under the qualification as it is.

[glossop saint]

3 hours ago, Leonard said:

Ground? Results? Maybe even home grown?

Home grown isn't a thing.