The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Wellsy4HullFC]

43 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's not potential. It's quite clear that a club being in SL results in higher average attendances and you have away teams, such as the Wigan and Leeds, greatly boosting attendances. That boost would apply to any club in SL.

Makes you wonder if the attendance should be split by number of fans purchasing tickets through their club rather than the gate on the day to account for "away fans boost". But then that creates another slippery slope.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Money and work ...

Salford being stronger than any club outside Super League and a few inside doesn't seem like a wrong thing to say. I think most would just quibble the A grade.

I think Salford are a comfortable SL club, but I do think they are some way off the clubs above them, I'm nor sure the scores suggest that, and I think it's the fandom metric that feels iffy. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

How do you expect this is going to be translated to the man in the street that the club needs more spectators so they will gain more points on the IMG spreadsheet.

I would guess that 70% of present fans have not a clue who or what IMG is in relation to the sport and if present fans of the clubs are not aware I wouldn't think that those newbies that the aim is to attract will will have a clue or even be bothered or concerned, it is just the Anoraks of our ilk that will be discussing this.

I'm not sure of your point. You don't think this table is the thing that gets fans engaged do you? 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

Quite. Feels a lack of nuance. 

It's why I do think this needs to be  an evolving process - whether it is or not, we'll see. 

[Toby Chopra]

25 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Much is being made about the LED screens, but think about what they actually mean:

A consistent offering to sponsors for the whole league (not just individual clubs though they obviously benefit), this is also increased by the new TV deal having every match produced to broadcast quality.

Right now, at some clubs the pitchside advertisement on offer for potential club and league sponsors is no better than when colour TV was first introduced.

The premier league etc insist on this and by having them it enshrines best practice across the league. It also, in conjunction with the other facilities points, works ti guarantee a minimum standard across the league that is corporate, media and broadcaster friendly.

Absolutely. All the stadium criteria are about making Superleague fit to attract better - and higher paying - sponsors, investors and broadcasters on a league-wide basis, not about seeing each club as an island.

Seeing everything through the prisms of individual clubs is a mindset we've long struggled with for historical reasons, whereas we need to boost the attractiveness of the competition as a whole.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

Not quite sure that's the win you think it is for IMGs grading system. 

 

Just pointing out that you were wrong to think they shouldn't have graded Newcastle and that Newcaslte have indeed, in no shape or form, "gone bust"... 

Thought you may have the sense to acknowledge you were wrong but obviously asking too much. 

[crashmon]

To me the catchment area is flawed

For instance lets take Bradford vs (fev, wakey and Cas)

Bradford is a large town, but in the latest census 30% of the population is SE Asian..   They are not going to pay RL, they are going to play Cricket

Only 11% of people in Wakefield are considered South Asian

Now that still leaves more potential people in Bradford than Wakefield, but just because you have a certain amount of population in an area does not mean that they are potentials for support?....

Edited October 27, 2023 by crashmon

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's why I do think this needs to be  an evolving process - whether it is or not, we'll see. 

We already have people portraying that as akin to flat earthers.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's why I do think this needs to be  an evolving process - whether it is or not, we'll see. 

As times evolve standards evolve, I fully expect at some point in the future the bar for an A will be raised - all clubs should want continuous improvements in all areas. 

[phiggins]

13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Nah, I'm pretty convinced most who are against this now would be against it regardless. Its the principal not the implementation that ultimately is what is being challenged.

Some, not sure most, are against the concept because they believe P&R as a concept should be retained. That's their view and it has it's merits, and of course, they won't change their view because the system is tweaked.

But there are also a number of posters that believe this system simply will not achieve what it sets out to do, because it is flawed in it's metrics, who will be won over by some logical refinements.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, RP London said:

Just pointing out that you were wrong to think they shouldn't have graded Newcastle and that Newcaslte have indeed, in no shape or form, "gone bust"... 

Thought you may have the sense to acknowledge you were wrong but obviously asking too much. 

You seem obsessed with me.

Just saying. Which is creepy.

More than happy to pitch in and pay monthly to Newcastle to help them along.

But it is a club that is the same as the prior club largely in the name of the location and had to have its debts written off. It has no ground at the moment.

Nevertheless, IMG graded it as the prior version and no doubt included finances in that. It would be like relying on Carillion's last audit report and saying that was fine. If you think their grading is fine on that basis or that relying on the grading for largely a prior entity for 3 years is fine - then crack on.

You can argue over semantics. "Newcastle" as was is largely gone. If it walks like a duck.

Hemel's not "bust" either - it's just in Cornwall.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Leonard

[Tommygilf]

Just now, crashmon said:

To me the catchment area is flawed

For instance lets take Bradford vs (fev, wakey and Cas)

Bradford is a large town, but in the latest census 30% of the population is SE Asian..   They are not going to pay RL, they are going to play Cricket

Only 11% of people in Wakefield are considered South Asian

Now that still leaves more potential people in Bradford than West Yorkshire, but just because you have a certain amount of population in an area does not mean that they are potentials for support?....

Aside from that being so utterly simplistic its silly, why are SE Asians not going to be involved in the sport? And if they aren't, that is our problem, not theirs.

Plenty of SE Asian lads support football clubs, did they have some kind of mental block that they had to overcome to not just like cricket?

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, crashmon said:

To me the catchment area is flawed

For instance lets take Bradford vs (fev, wakey and Cas)

Bradford is a large town, but in the latest census 30% of the population is SE Asian..   They are not going to pay RL, they are going to play Cricket

Only 11% of people in Wakefield are considered South Asian

Now that still leaves more potential people in Bradford than Wakefield, but just because you have a certain amount of population in an area does not mean that they are potentials for support?....

Or there’s a brand new market to tap into.  Labelling demographics like this is part of RL’s issues

[Toby Chopra]

26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I Don't do any social media apart from this site, but I go to watch my team home and away whenever possible and spend my money, but it could be that I am not as important as someone sat on their brown one clicking away on his computer, someone who never goes near a ground or spends a penny on the game.

That can't be right surely.

 

Crowds and non-central revenues (which is mostly determined by crowds) make up about 30% of the grading.

Digital makes up 7.5%.

So according to the criteria you attending is 4x more important than someone engaging with the club via social media.

So rather than saying you're "not important" it actually says fans are the most important factor of all.

So no need for worry Harry!

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Some, not sure most, are against the concept because they believe P&R as a concept should be retained. That's their view and it has it's merits, and of course, they won't change their view because the system is tweaked.

But there are also a number of posters that believe this system simply will not achieve what it sets out to do, because it is flawed in it's metrics, who will be won over by some logical refinements.

I think it is most mate, the other group you describe are simply far less vocal and passionate about it.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As times evolve standards evolve, I fully expect at some point in the future the bar for an A will be raised - all clubs should want continuous improvements in all areas. 

Indeed. Hopefully we get to a stage where 7.5k is pitifully low for top teams, and £1m benchmarks are worthless. Altho based on how stagnant the cap has been, who knows? 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I think it is most mate, the other group you describe are simply far less vocal and passionate about it.

I think you will find we are extremely passionate about Logical Refinement of Metrics! 

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

You seem obsessed with me.

Just saying.

Oh ffs... grow up man..

You made a statement that is false, a lie.. I'm simply pointing this out to you but no acknowledgement just "your obsessed".. Good to know you can admit you're wrong.. I'm starting to think you might be the problem in your work with IMG and not IMG

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Aside from that being so utterly simplistic its silly, why are SE Asians not going to be involved in the sport? And if they aren't, that is our problem, not theirs.

Plenty of SE Asian lads support football clubs, did they have some kind of mental block that they had to overcome to not just like cricket?

YOU HAVE HAD THIS ANECDOTE BEFORE SO I DO APOLOGISE

30 years ago, I attended my first match at Valley Parade, having left Bradford as a small lad and returning as a still small but older one to watch my 'home' team. We beat Exeter 6-0, it was great. I bought a copy of the City Gent. Inside was a piece lamenting that Bradford City would never get the crowds the city deserves because Asians were too interested in cricket and football was probably always going to be too 'white' to overcome that.

Fast forward thirty years and Bradford City pull in unheard-of five-figure crowds on a regular basis and have a decent and growing number of SE Asian fans.

That didn't happen overnight and it didn't happen easily. (And I know it's not just Bradford City but ...) Proactive steps were taken, money spent, time committed, priorities altered etc etc ...

 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Dave T said:

I think you will find we are extremely passionate about Logical Refinement of Metrics! 

I was going to describe them as the group that's always in the kitchen at parties, but that would mean that they would be invited to parties in the first place...

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Logical Refinement of Metrics

*makes obligatory "I heard them on the Peel Sessions joke"*

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I was going to describe them as the group that's always in the kitchen at parties, but that would mean that they would be invited to parties in the first place...

Hey, I do some of my best work in kitchens at parties!

"Actually, I think you'll find..." 

[Guest]

You've chosen to ignore content by RP London. 

 

Go away.

[crashmon]

18 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Aside from that being so utterly simplistic its silly, why are SE Asians not going to be involved in the sport? And if they aren't, that is our problem, not theirs.

Plenty of SE Asian lads support football clubs, did they have some kind of mental block that they had to overcome to not just like cricket?

I never said it was a SE asian problem. Its a RL problem

How many SE asian players are playing in SL?   How is the Pakistan and Indian International RL teams getting on... Can you point me to a list of fixtures they have played in the last 10 years.

You cannot compare with Football is its a global sport.  A better compairson would be with Union in the south.  We have large asian populations in Southall which is in East ealing, yet I see very few asian supporters at Quins games or at trailfinders games (the few I have attended)

[gingerjon]

Just now, crashmon said:

You cannot compare with Football is its a global sport. 

I think you can compare with soccer because the work to get Asian (and other diverse groups) to attend and participate is often done at very local levels and has very little to do with Messi turning out for Inter Miami.