The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Barley Mow]

9 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The clubs can ultimately only control what they can control if other clubs do better then they will deserve their place within the system that has been approved over the club that hasnt done enough

The issue he was trying to address though was whether promoted clubs would have longer to prepare a squad for SL than under on-field P&R.

I hoped he would have a solution, but the answer seems to be that they're likely to have less time.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

The issue he was trying to address though was whether clubs would have longer to prepare a squad for SL than under on-field P&R.

I hoped he would have a solution, but the answer seems to be that they're likely to have less time.

Yes they will have less time but not much less time, and I fully expect from 2025 onwards there won’t be a lot of changes in the tables, especially if it goes to 14 teams.

This is why from 2025 my preference would be to lock those teams in for 3 years.

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Yes they will have less time but not much less time, and I fully expect from 2025 onwards there won’t be a lot of changes in the tables, especially if it goes to 14 teams.

This is why from 2025 my preference would be to lock those teams in for 3 years.

Yes, I realise that is your preference.

I'm still not convinced by the system as a whole and was glad when this question was asked because I hoped he would have an answer that would be an improvement on the current situation - that might've started to win me round. Unfortunately he had no answer.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

42 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

If they continue to use (2021) census population figures the population of Halton could quadruple before the next one in 2031 but you'd still be stuck on 0.5pts.....

I hadn't thought of that.  Your probably right.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

Yes, I realise that is your preference.

I'm still not convinced by the system as a whole and was glad when this question was asked because I hoped he would have an answer that would be an improvement on the current situation - that might've started to win me round. Unfortunately he had no answer.

Any system that has P&R will create uncertainty for some clubs it’s unavoidable.

[Barley Mow]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Any system that has P&R will create uncertainty for some clubs it’s unavoidable.

Yes. But a new system that prolongs that uncertainty (even slightly) has a harder task in convincing people it is an overall benefit, than one that reduced the length of the uncertainty.

Reduced uncertainty was afterall supposed to be a benefit of to this system.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 minute ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

I hadn't thought of that.  Your probably right.

I'd wager they haven't even thought about it either. I've long since thought the whole document has the feel of the output from a project given to the interns/new graduates to keep them quiet and out of the way.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Barley Mow said:

Yes. But a new system that prolongs that uncertainty (even slightly) has a harder task in convincing people it is an overall benefit, than one that reduced the length of the uncertainty.

As I say once the system kicks in I don’t think there will be as much uncertainty.

The clubs have been given indicative grades a year in advance they will have an idea where they need to improve I

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

20 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

The clubs around the 12th/13th place are unlikely to be A grade though (at least in the first few years).

They will be B's - they will know how they're doing compared to last year, but can't know if they are promoted until later than at present because they won't know if other clubs have improved their grade.

Agreed, but I think their justification is that clubs achieving A grades will then have that certainty.

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

As I say once the system kicks in I don’t think there will be as much uncertainty.

Only because movement between SL and Champ is likely to end (or be significantly reduced) - as you can imagine, I don't really see that as a positive either.

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

The clubs have been given indicative grades a year in advance they will have an idea where they need to improve I

That was essentially the answer in the interview - it didn't reflect the fact that the clubs involved won't know what improvements their opponents will have made to their grade.

 

Although I am not in favour of this system, I am trying to remain objective, give it a chance and engage with it constructively. I had hoped there would be something in the interview that I could take away as a positive, a question came up that had been discussed on here and I hoped there was a positive answer to - unfortunately not.

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The clubs can ultimately only control what they can control if other clubs do better then they will deserve their place within the system that has been approved over the club that hasnt done enough

OK Chris answer me this please, there are a number of clubs around the 10th to 14th who could conceivably make the 12, two of them are going to be dissapointed, this season from July/August my club was expected to be in SL next year and would be sure of the funding to attract better players, and in turn those players would commit to the club on the knowledge they would 1. Get Paid, 2. be signing up to play in SL.

In this system how does a club know if they will have the finances next year to do any strategic planning if they do not know where they will be playing or what finances they will get.

Unlike promotion and relegation there is no viability, and how can anyone be sure that the inputs have been done correctly, Wilkin asked Sutton directly can the figures be challenged he said a club can look at their own, but what about if you feel that another club as benefited from some mistake being made, how can that be challenged?

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

Only because movement between SL and Champ is likely to end (or be significantly reduced) - as you can imagine, I don't really see that as a positive either.

That was essentially the answer in the interview - it didn't reflect the fact that the clubs involved won't know what improvements their opponents will have made to their grade.

 

Although I am not in favour of this system, I am trying to remain objective, give it a chance and engage with it constructively. I had hoped there would be something in the interview that I could take away as a positive, a question came up that had been discussed on here and I hoped there was a positive answer to - unfortunately not.

What would be your suggestion?

I think the only way would be to give indicative grades before the playoffs, I suspect this may happen but we need to remember this is reliant on the clubs giving that information to IMG/RL commercial 

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

What would be your suggestion?

I think the only way would be to give indicative grades before the playoffs, I suspect this may happen but we need to remember this is reliant on the clubs giving that information to IMG/RL commercial 

I don't think there is a solution to this issue.

They may end up with something along the lines you suggest (although if that had been thought of I think it would have been mentioned in the interview as it is directly relevant)  - even that would be like looking at the league table with 5 weeks of the season to go and judging the odds of going up or down. Clubs still might not have any certainty until the final grades are in after the grand final.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK Chris answer me this please, there are a number of clubs around the 10th to 14th who could conceivably make the 12, two of them are going to be dissapointed, this season from July/August my club was expected to be in SL next year and would be sure of the funding to attract better players, and in turn those players would commit to the club on the knowledge they would 1. Get Paid, 2. be signing up to play in SL.

In this system how does a club know if they will have the finances next year to do any strategic planning if they do not know where they will be playing or what finances they will get.

Unlike promotion and relegation there is no viability, and how can anyone be sure that the inputs have been done correctly, Wilkin asked Sutton directly can the figures be challenged he said a club can look at their own, but what about if you feel that another club as benefited from some mistake being made, how can that be challenged?

I agree next season will be tricky, the transition year was always going to be, going forward I suspect it will settle down. I have repeatedly said that I think the system would work far better if it was locked in for a set period of time. 
 

you see i can criticise the grading system and I don’t think its 100% correct (no system would be)

[Hopie]

I can see negatives of the grading system that will definitely happen, I'm struggling to see any positives that aren't hypothetical.

I appreciate, that like licensing, some people will say everything good that happens will be down to the new system they prefer, and everything bad is because of legacy from the old system, but I really would like to see some tangible benefits for what we are losing.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

28 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I'd wager they haven't even thought about it either. I've long since thought the whole document has the feel of the output from a project given to the interns/new graduates to keep them quiet and out of the way.

Yep, it only mentioned data at 2021, nothing about future years.

[DaveyJalfrezi]

6 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

No the nearest ones live half a mile away, or they are invited

I actually got an invite to Jezfest!

[Harry Stottle]

36 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I agree next season will be tricky, the transition year was always going to be. 
You see i can criticise the grading system and I don’t think its 100% correct (no system would be)

But that transition period does no good to any club if they do not get any funding, jobs could be lost.

Do you remember the first year of the 8's and the GF, this platform was awash with how it was unfair that a SL club could be relegated on one game and do many people would lose their jobs, at least under that system a club had a fighting chance, this system just throws up the unknown.

I can't see how any fair minded person can't criticise this part of the system, it is totally flawed and even the guy who is at the head of it, could not explain or justify it when put on the spot, surely they are not that thick to overlook it happening and the consequences it would have.

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

I think we are talking at cross purposes. You seem to be saying exactly the same as I am. I am not the one equating catchment and attendances, i’m doing the exact opposite.

 

So you agree , it's a nonsense grading , based purely on chance 140 years ago ?

[Griff]

28 minutes ago, DaveyJalfrezi said:

I actually got an invite to Jezfest!

Me too.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

But that transition period does no good to any club if they do not get any funding, jobs could be lost.

Do you remember the first year of the 8's and the GF, this platform was awash with how it was unfair that a SL club could be relegated on one game and do many people would lose their jobs, at least under that system a club had a fighting chance, this system just throws up the unknown.

I can't see how any fair minded person can't criticise this part of the system, it is totally flawed and even the guy who is at the head of it, could not explain or justify it when put on the spot, surely they are not that thick to overlook it happening and the consequences it would have.

Jobs are lost with P&R Harry, that’s the nature if the beast.

The Super 8s were terrible for the game and quite rightly canned, it was P&R and all the negatives on steroids.

The system is happening and next year is the transitional year what would be your suggestion to limit the uncertainty?

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

So you agree , it's a nonsense grading , based purely on chance 140 years ago ?

No im not saying that at all, just read my posts on it.

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It's actually only the number of Tier 1 and 2 clubs so does throw up the possibility that should L1 continue, if one of the WMDC clubs ended up in L1, all 3 would gain 0.5pts and similarly for the Kirklees clubs 2 going down to L1 would gain all 3 an additional 0.5pts.....

Madness isn't it 

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, del capo said:

Correct.

And if Leigh  ever got that independence from Wigan Metro they seek both clubs would lose half a point. Not a problem for the Warriors, but would put Leigh much closer to Championship rugby. Just saying......

Notice how cleverly that 130k population figure was selected?

Again , madness 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

Death, taxes and no relegation from Superleague. The three certainties of life.