Have we got a RL Joey Barton ?

[ELBOWSEYE]

Don't agree with women for the sake of being woke, just use the best people male or female.

[RigbyLuger]

20 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Don't agree with women for the sake of being woke, just use the best people male or female.

What do you mean by "being woke"?

[Impartial Observer]

Maybe Meninga did damage to more than Deveraux's jaw when he used it to try to tackle him .

Edited January 31 by Impartial Observer

[Dave T]

5 hours ago, Hopie said:

 

I also think the tokenism argument would fall down if they did pick the best person for the job, why was the women's world cup presentation team mostly made up of women, the men's world cup presented by men, and the wheelchair world cup presented by someone with a disability? Best person for the job please, no reason for that not to be the case.

Best person is highly subjective. There are a couple of important points here. 

1. If we just went for the 'best' team, then we'd just have the same people presenting every game, a little like we did when Eddie and Stevo were around. It's an outdated approach, and they clearly weren't the best around, they met certain requirements. It's interesting that people weren't trotting out the 'best people for the job' line back then. 

2. Representation is very important. We have under-representational of many demographics, and a really good starting point in improving that is to use these people in entirely fitting environments I. E. women in women's rugby, people with disabilities in wheelchair RL. And absolutely beyond that too into the men's game. 

People do seem to completely miss the point on representation, and that is that these pundits are t about representing the players, they are representing the viewer. They are explaining for our benefit, they are entertaining us, and the sooner people accept that audiences are not solely made of grumpy middle aged white men, the quicker we'll move on. 

And my final point heee is that if we stick to the tried and tested middle aged white man in the name of 'best for the job', then we miss out on some superb talent. The diversity we have seen in recent years has seen some absolute gems uncovered. Having the likes of Balding, Skelton, Priim, Cunningham and Co involved has been a breath of fresh air and should be celebrated. 

Touching on the wheelchair coverage of the World Cup, I thought JJ Chalmers was an outstanding presenter, and I'd love to see him more involved in RL. 

[Chrispmartha]

“ when you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression”

that quote always seems relevant in these things

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Touching on the wheelchair coverage of the World Cup, I thought JJ Chalmers was an outstanding presenter, and I'd love to see him more involved in RL. 

Absolutely, he is a really good presenter and has been fantastic in the wheelchair internationals. He's just a natural presenter who could present any form of the game well.

[Impartial Observer]

Claire Balding is fantastic whatever sport she has presented, 

[Chrispmartha]

21 minutes ago, Damien said:

Absolutely, he is a really good presenter and has been fantastic in the wheelchair internationals. He's just a natural presenter who could present any form of the game well.

Yes he was great, he seemed to genuinely love the sport aswell 

[Vambo]

Must admit I enjoy the growing number of ladies involved in televised sport. I mostly just watch the rugby codes (occasional NFL game) and both have some great female presenters/pundits/commentators that I personally find more listenable than 'some' of the blokes alongside them or that they replaced.

[Hanover XIII]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Touching on the wheelchair coverage of the World Cup, I thought JJ Chalmers was an outstanding presenter, and I'd love to see him more involved in RL. 

This is not a `you're wrong, I'm right' view but just shows how we all see things differently. I've always thought he was one of the BBC's poorer presenters. 

[Impartial Observer]

1 hour ago, Vambo said:

Must admit I enjoy the growing number of ladies involved in televised sport. I mostly just watch the rugby codes (occasional NFL game) and both have some great female presenters/pundits/commentators that I personally find more listenable than 'some' of the blokes alongside them or that they replaced.

There are lots of women who commentate on cricket both on radio and tv, some I like to listen to some I dont just like the men.

[Skids]

13 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

In terms of Davies I was very much of this opinion until a couple of years ago, his analysis was always very superficial but I think he's gotten a lot better recently in calling games. Don't know if anyone else is of the same opinion. 

I like Carney as an anchorman, he's no Bob Wilson. 

I agree. He was terrible up until around 3/4 years ago. He was tactically unaware and didn't know half the player's names. He has improved significantly since then.

[EggFace]

15 hours ago, Damien said:

On the general point I think RL does well with its women pundits and presenters and for me they are usually a breath of fresh air. We have a good bunch.

I think Danika Priim is as good as anyone and significantly better than most. Jenna Brooks always comes across as really knowledgable and asks all the right questions. Although less seen the likes of Jodie Cunningham and Lois Forsell always speak well.

Helen Skelton presents the sports really well. I think Tanya Arnold was also good too and unfairly criticised.

I think the women pundits and presenters of Rugby League are so much better then the Rugby Union and Football ones.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Hanover XIII said:

This is not a `you're wrong, I'm right' view but just shows how we all see things differently. I've always thought he was one of the BBC's poorer presenters. 

That goes back to the first line of that post I suppose - "best person is highly subjective"

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Vambo said:

Must admit I enjoy the growing number of ladies involved in televised sport. I mostly just watch the rugby codes (occasional NFL game) and both have some great female presenters/pundits/commentators that I personally find more listenable than 'some' of the blokes alongside them or that they replaced.

Yes, this is my view too. I enjoy a more diverse range of presenters and experts, and I think many women are well suited to sports punditry. 

[Dave T]

43 minutes ago, Skids said:

I agree. He was terrible up until around 3/4 years ago. He was tactically unaware and didn't know half the player's names. He has improved significantly since then.

I think part of this has been the emergence of some new pundits, I think they've freshened things up a little and have either made Davies more bearable, or maybe have influenced him and improved his standard.

[glossop saint]

1 hour ago, Hanover XIII said:

This is not a `you're wrong, I'm right' view but just shows how we all see things differently. I've always thought he was one of the BBC's poorer presenters. 

I agree. Something about him grates on me. I found that also with the Channel 4 paralympics coverage from Tokyo as well. I know he's there as a presenter not as an expert but for me it felt like he had no understanding of the sport, either the wheelchair or running game.

Having said that it seems he is quite popular so I'm happy to accept it is probably just me (and you!) and if the majority like him then fantastic.

[glossop saint]

1 hour ago, Impartial Observer said:

There are lots of women who commentate on cricket both on radio and tv, some I like to listen to some I dont just like the men.

I think cricket is a great example. There's some presenters/commentators/pundits who are great and some who are just awful. Both male and female. And there's a high chance that we all have different favourites, with maybe some common.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I agree. Something about him grates on me. I found that also with the Channel 4 paralympics coverage from Tokyo as well. I know he's there as a presenter not as an expert but for me it felt like he had no understanding of the sport, either the wheelchair or running game.

Having said that it seems he is quite popular so I'm happy to accept it is probably just me (and you!) and if the majority like him then fantastic.

I think it's fair enough - sometimes we just don't take to an individual and there aint much else to it. For me, I found him very easy to listen to, had a nice relaxed, modern presenting style, and i'm quite happy for the presenters to have little knowledge and ask the questions, allowing the experts to provide the detail. Clare Balding always took this approach and was a breath of fresh air.

On the flipside, I do also like Carney, as a presenter he also brings extensive knowledge and gives opinions - imo you need to be a bit more careful here (sometimes Eddie Hemmings overstepped the mark on this) but I think Carney is pretty good on this in general.

I probably find Mark Chapman the best presenter out there, he's doing more with Sky now, so hopefully that won't mean we don't see him covering RL.

[glossop saint]

Just now, Dave T said:

I think it's fair enough - sometimes we just don't take to an individual and there aint much else to it. For me, I found him very easy to listen to, had a nice relaxed, modern presenting style, and i'm quite happy for the presenters to have little knowledge and ask the questions, allowing the experts to provide the detail. Clare Balding always took this approach and was a breath of fresh air.

On the flipside, I do also like Carney, as a presenter he also brings extensive knowledge and gives opinions - imo you need to be a bit more careful here (sometimes Eddie Hemmings overstepped the mark on this) but I think Carney is pretty good on this in general.

I probably find Mark Chapman the best presenter out there, he's doing more with Sky now, so hopefully that won't mean we don't see him covering RL.

As I was typing about JJ having poor knowledge then I was thinking about how it compares to Clare Balding, who I really rated. I think they have similar multi sport and general TV presenting backgrounds and similar style. I suppose that I got the impression that Clare had done her research and watched games etc and was clarifying when asking questions whereas to JJ it felt like it was his first exposure to the sport, which I have no doubt that as the professional he is that won't be the case. 

I fully agree about Mark Chapman. Best presenter by a country mile. The perfect balance of banter, respect, the right level of interesting questions and brings out the best from the pundits. 

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

As I was typing about JJ having poor knowledge then I was thinking about how it compares to Clare Balding, who I really rated. I think they have similar multi sport and general TV presenting backgrounds and similar style. I suppose that I got the impression that Clare had done her research and watched games etc and was clarifying when asking questions whereas to JJ it felt like it was his first exposure to the sport, which I have no doubt that as the professional he is that won't be the case. 

I fully agree about Mark Chapman. Best presenter by a country mile. The perfect balance of banter, respect, the right level of interesting questions and brings out the best from the pundits. 

I wonder if one of the perceived differences between Chalmers and Balding was around the roles they were carrying out. Balding was covering the more established and well-known men's running version, and I wonder whether Chalmers style was more of a reflection that the wheelchair version was being introduced for the first time to BBC audiences perhaps.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, glossop saint said:

As I was typing about JJ having poor knowledge then I was thinking about how it compares to Clare Balding, who I really rated. I think they have similar multi sport and general TV presenting backgrounds and similar style. I suppose that I got the impression that Clare had done her research and watched games etc and was clarifying when asking questions whereas to JJ it felt like it was his first exposure to the sport, which I have no doubt that as the professional he is that won't be the case. 

I fully agree about Mark Chapman. Best presenter by a country mile. The perfect balance of banter, respect, the right level of interesting questions and brings out the best from the pundits. 

I can't say I've particularly noticed Chalmers having a lack of knowledge but I don't see not being an expert on the sport as a bad thing for a presenter. Quite often presenters like that who have done RL come across as enthusiastic and ask all the right questions for many neutrals, as they themselves are genuinely interested in the answers.

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

And my final point heee is that if we stick to the tried and tested middle aged white man in the name of 'best for the job', then we miss out on some superb talent. The diversity we have seen in recent years has seen some absolute gems uncovered. Having the likes of Balding, Skelton, Priim, Cunningham and Co involved has been a breath of fresh air and should be celebrated. 

T

Surely Clare Balding and Helen Skelton were established presenters and were excellent when covering RL the others I agree, and some of the white middle aged men were poor. 

I don't agree with the views of Barton or Deveraux but it should be not a box ticking exercise.

[ELBOWSEYE]

7 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

What do you mean by "being woke"?

Sorry about the delay in replying, with reference to this topic which was some male ex players bemoaning the introduction of female pundits(ex players).

Woke in this instance (in my opinion) is doing something seem by some people as a box ticking exercise. I have no problem with any presenters for a sport as long as they bring something to the experience of watching (usually on TV). They can be of any category of humanity but used for the benefit of the audience not what can be a problem exercise.

[ELBOWSEYE]

7 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Don't agree with women for the sake of being woke, just use the best people male or female.

Tre Cool, use words instead of stupid emojis,and tell me what you disagree with (I will always respect people who disagree with me but say it(write) .