Matty Peet

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Am I? I haven't even mentioned anything about Peets playing credentials.

I am commenting on what role I know Leiluai and O'Loughlin play and ehat their job is. If that doesn't tally with what you wish to believe or whatever point you wish to argue then that is up to you.

I asked you what you meant when you said Leuluai and O'Loughlin were "the brains" and you said "rugby brains. They've been there and done that".

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

I asked you what you meant when you said Leuluai and O'Loughlin were "the brains" and you said "rugby brains. They've been there and done that".

I'm not sure why you are trying to be so argumentative. I really have no interest in whatever you are angst about.

They do have rugby brains and great technical ability. Leuluai has played 40+ times for NZ and played top flight SL and NRL for 2 decades. O'Loughlin captained England and again played for Wigan for years.

Peet acknowledges what they bring. That is a wealth of experience at the highest level under the worlds best coaches. If you wish to ignore it and their contribution it is up to you.

[Dunbar]

Just now, Damien said:

I'm not sure why you are trying to be so argumentative. I really have no interest in whatever you are angst about.

They do have rugby brains and great technical ability. Leuluai has played 40+ times for NZ and played top flight SL and NRL for 2 decades. O'Loughlin captained England and again played for Wigan for years.

Peet acknowledges what they bring. That is a wealth of experience at the highest level under the worlds best coaches. If you wish to ignore it and their contribution it is up to you.

Why are you arguing then.

Look, if you think that having the experience of a top class playing career adds value to your coaching credentials that is fine. I just disagree. 

[Futtocks]

9 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Why are you arguing then.

Look, if you think that having the experience of a top class playing career adds value to your coaching credentials that is fine. I just disagree. 

In many cases, mediocre/average players tend to be better coaches, because they have had to work and think so much harder about the game to make it as players. The naturally gifted stars often struggle to communicate what it is that makes them good, and often become frustrated by that.

In Football, Alex Ferguson and Arsène Wenger both had pretty undistinguished playing careers, for instance.

Edited February 25 by Futtocks

[Dunbar]

8 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

In many cases, mediocre/average players tend to be better coaches, because they have had to work and think so much harder about the game to make it as players. The naturally gifted stars often struggle to communicate what it is that makes them good, and often become frustrated by that.

In Football, Alex Ferguson and Arsène Wenger both had pretty undistinguished playing careers, for instance.

Indeed and José Mourinho as well.  All three outstanding managers.

Then you have likes of Frank Lampard who was an excellent player but clearly out of his depth at managing.

There are great players who make great coaches.  I am simply saying that they have both attributes... great player and great coach but they do not have one because of the other.

Peet is a perfect example of a Rugby League coach who is tactically very good and he didn't need to play at the top level to become tactically astute.

Edited February 25 by Dunbar

[St Reatham]

He always seems calm and measured, is articulate, and generally seems like a nice fella.

[Futtocks]

Also, like Shaun Wane before him, by the time he was given charge of the first team, he'd already been coaching for years in the club's system. For a young man, he's actually got loads of experience, especially with the core of this current Wigan squad.

Edited February 25 by Futtocks

[Gomersall]

14 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

In many cases, mediocre/average players tend to be better coaches, because they have had to work and think so much harder about the game to make it as players. The naturally gifted stars often struggle to communicate what it is that makes them good, and often become frustrated by that.

In Football, Alex Ferguson and Arsène Wenger both had pretty undistinguished playing careers, for instance.

Fergie played for Rangers and Scotland. 

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Why are you arguing then.

Look, if you think that having the experience of a top class playing career adds value to your coaching credentials that is fine. I just disagree. 

You quoted me and I answered your question and seem to have a bee in your bonnet. I hadn't even read your posts prior to mine.

Your second post is just misrepresentation of what I said. Wigan have done a great job of assembling a coaching team that work really well together and everyone has their role. It's silly to ignore that and Peet is the first to acknowledge it. He also knows that others are better in certain areas than him and have more experience and uses that accordingly. That is what good coaches and managers the world over do.

I'm happy to agree to disagree if you find that so contentious.

[Futtocks]

5 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

Fergie played for Rangers and Scotland. 

By his own admission he was a solid, rather than spectacular player. Ron Atkinson, Bobby Robson, other good professionals, but not superstars. I'm comparing his appointment to Manchester United in 1986 to what would have happened if they'd picked George Best instead.

Or what actually happened when they made Glenn Hoddle (and his spirit guide) the manager of England. See also Kevin Keegan's managerial implosions at Newcastle and England.

Edited February 25 by Futtocks

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

You quoted me and I answered your question and seem to have a bee in your bonnet. I hadn't even read your posts prior to mine.

Your second post is just misrepresentation of what I said. Wigan have done a great job of assembling a coaching team that work really well together and everyone has their role. It's silly to ignore that and Peet is the first to acknowledge it. He also knows that others are better in certain areas than him and have more experience and uses that accordingly. That is what good coaches and managers the world over do.

I'm happy to agree to disagree if you find that so contentious.

I don't want to misrepresent anyone.

I read your 'rugby brains' and 'been there done that' comments about O'Loughlin and Leuluai as referencing their professional playing careers (which Peet didn't have).  Did you mean something else?

[meast]

5 hours ago, daz39 said:

I said after the 2022 cup final how graceful in victory he was and how well he spoke, he still does, he's such a likeable bloke for our sport, there's nothing to dislike about him.

Remember him coaching Wigan's academy and scholarship against our lot when i was more involved and he always seemed to acknowledge the opposition players, always had words of encouragement for the kids and coaches and even then it was clear his man management skills were outstanding.

An asset to our sport and a damn good coach too.

He's still the same, still comes to the academy and is very humble and happy to chat with people.

Good guy, and you're right about the cup final, it made the heartbreaking defeat slightly easier to take, although only slightly!

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

38 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

In many cases, mediocre/average players tend to be better coaches, because they have had to work and think so much harder about the game to make it as players. The naturally gifted stars often struggle to communicate what it is that makes them good, and often become frustrated by that.

In Football, Alex Ferguson and Arsène Wenger both had pretty undistinguished playing careers, for instance.

Once saw an interview with Martin O'Neil where he made that very point. He compared himself to John Robertson, who was a very gifted natural player, but he himself had to strive to be the best he could be and constantly think of ways to improve himself

Edited February 25 by Cumbrian Fanatic

[Derwent]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I am not arguing the importance of O'Loughlin and Leuluai but you are suggesting that there are some elements of Rugby League game play or tactics that they possess that Peet doesn't because he wasn't a top class player.  And I disagree with that view.

I don’t think he’s saying that, just that the likes of the 2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them.

For example, the French no try, Peet said that it was Leuluai who came up with that move after watching videos of Penrith and had spent time with Smith and French during the week practicing it.

[Derwent]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I am not arguing the importance of O'Loughlin and Leuluai but you are suggesting that there are some elements of Rugby League game play or tactics that they possess that Peet doesn't because he wasn't a top class player.  And I disagree with that view.

I don’t think he’s saying that, just that the likes of the 2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them.

For example, the French no try, Peet said that it was Leuluai who came up with that move after watching videos of Penrith and had spent time with Smith and French during the week practicing it.

[Vambo]

Like others I had doubts when Peet was given the job but my word has he wiped those doubts out. IMO he's been an absolute revelation. 

Not only in the way he carries himself but also in the way he's made it not about him but about those around him, from the coaches, the staff, the players and the club.

I wouldn't swap him for any other coach.

 

 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Derwent said:

I don’t think he’s saying that, just that the likes of the 2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them.

But haven't you just said the same thing with the '2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them' part of your post.

Again, you are suggesting that their playing experience adds something that Peet lacks and I am disagreeing with that.  I am not trying to persuade you or Damien of anything by the way, everyone is more than welcome to their opinion.

[Damien]

28 minutes ago, Derwent said:

I don’t think he’s saying that, just that the likes of the 2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them.

For example, the French no try, Peet said that it was Leuluai who came up with that move after watching videos of Penrith and had spent time with Smith and French during the week practicing it.

Exactly. That is a prime example. A lot of the analysis of teams strengths and weaknesses come from Leuluai and O'Loughlin. They do the the analysis, player clips and construct a game plan. Similarly Wigans defence and attack comes from Leuluai and O'Loughlin looking to exploit that. Its silly to ignore that or their skills and experience. 

Conversely I know at least one of these two, because they told me, said that they couldn't and wouldn't want to do the job Peet does. They work hard but he is something else. Being a head coach takes a different skillset in itself. Peet is a Rugby fanatic who has no qualms about doing whatever needs to be done to succeed.

All of that works fantastically as a team.

Edited February 25 by Damien

[Dunbar]

33 minutes ago, Damien said:

Exactly. That is a prime example. A lot of the analysis of teams strengths and weaknesses come from Leuluai and O'Loughlin. They do the the analysis, player clips and construct a game plan. Similarly Wigans defence and attack comes from Leuluai and O'Loughlin looking to exploit that. Its silly to ignore that or their skills and experience. 

Nobody is ignoring Leuluai and O'Loughlin's skills and experience.  And no-one is undermining their contribution. 

But to say they construct the Wigan game plan is wide of the mark.  As Liam Farrell said after last years Grand Final in praise of Peet... “He makes tough calls when they’re needed, he puts the game plan into place".

https://www.impartialreporter.com/sport/national/23856866.triumphant-wigan-boss-matt-peet-aims-emulate-coaching-heroes/

And again, to be absolutely clear, I am not saying O'Loughlin or Leuluai can't do this, they are clearly very good coaches and may be very good head coaches one day.

I have just one point on this thread.  Matt Peet is a top class Rugby League coach and he didn't need to be a top class player to be a top class coach.  He doesn't need people with 'rugby brains' to support him as that implies he doesn't have a rugby brain.

[Padge]

1 hour ago, Derwent said:

I don’t think he’s saying that, just that the likes of the 2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them.

For example, the French no try, Peet said that it was Leuluai who came up with that move after watching videos of Penrith and had spent time with Smith and French during the week practicing it.

They used it last season.

[Derwent]

18 minutes ago, Padge said:

They used it last season.

Fair enough, I’m just repeating what Peet said in his post-match interview. 

[Padge]

1 minute ago, Derwent said:

Fair enough, I’m just repeating what Peet said in his post-match interview. 

He didn't say when he (Leuluai)came up with it, last season they used Field, so it probably was practiced this week with French, but it certainly wasn't a new move for Wigan.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Derwent said:

Fair enough, I’m just repeating what Peet said in his post-match interview. 

You are correct. It was used for a particular reason that had been highlighted i.e because of the way Edwards defends from scrums in that situation, which can be exploited when you have a player with the speed of French.

Edited February 25 by Damien

[Derwent]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

But haven't you just said the same thing with the '2 ex players have the experience of playing in those intense games and know what is required to win them' part of your post.

Again, you are suggesting that their playing experience adds something that Peet lacks and I am disagreeing with that.  I am not trying to persuade you or Damien of anything by the way, everyone is more than welcome to their opinion.

No I’m not saying that. I’m saying they, through different lived experiences, bring things into the mix that Peet doesn’t have. That is not a criticism of Peet in any way whatsoever. Any good management team, whether in business or sport, needs a good mix of different skills and experience that compliment each other. Peet will have skills the other 2 don’t have, they will have some that he doesn’t. That’s just a fact of life. All that matters in the end is that the blend works, and it clearly does at Wigan. Matty Peet seems to be an exceptional Head Coach, and even better human being, but I’m sure he’d be the first to acknowledge the contribution of his support staff.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Derwent said:

Fair enough, I’m just repeating what Peet said in his post-match interview. 

 

1 minute ago, Padge said:

He didn't say when he (Leuluai)came up with it, last season they used Field, so it probably was practiced this week with French, but it certainly wasn't a new move for Wigan.

I'm sure it is a move in their repertoire that they decided to execute after studying the way the Panthers line up in defence of a scrum.

Good coaching and just a tiny fraction out in execution.