Ramadan

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

All gone quiet on this front. Everyone seems to have taken "Back on topic, then..." to mean "LOCKED".

Pity, because it's a subject we ought to debate. In the future interest of UK RL. Preferably without the heavy hand of censorship.

The gloriously diverse composition of Canterbury Bulldogs fanbase would be inconceivable in this country. We are manifestly failing. 

I'll try one rhetorical question. Food for thought. -

It's easy to denounce others for alleged intolerance. Costs nothing. How many self-styled "progressives" would be willing to curb their enthusiasm for alcohol if it meant creating a more welcoming RL environment for Muslims?

I don't touch a drop, so wouldn't affect me.

I don't think there is necessarily a need to ban alcohol, but I really do think grounds need to be set up better. On Saturday at Warrington I sat in an area that is classed as a Family Stand, or certainly has been in the past. Yet tbh it was pretty unpleasant with a bunch of loudmouths who were just drinking and effing and blinding every other word. 

I have no desire to take my 7 year old daughter to sit there. I do think we miss a trick somewhat on having different areas that maybe cater for different customer segments, whether that be Muslims, families, tee-totallers etc. 

It often gets pointed out on here the level of stick Angela Powers got for complaining about baby-changing facilities at the HJ - and I think it demonstrates that many are not interested in other people's experiences or what may work for them. 

I definitely think we can be better in quite a few areas. 

[meast]

On 02/04/2024 at 19:54, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Is he still playing?

Yes, he's part of the reserves set up.

[meast]

Slightly off on a tangent here, but at the last non league football game I attended, 2 of the match officials and 1 of the players were fasting and requested that the kick off be delayed by 10 minutes so they could end their fast before the game, it was duly granted, although not before I heard several people bemoan that we were "pandering to them"  

As it turned out, all 3 of them had very good games after that.

Edited April 4 by meast

[Griff]

3 hours ago, meast said:

Slightly off on a tangent here, but at the last non league football game I attended, 2 of the match officials and 1 of the players were fasting and requested that the kick off be delayed by 10 minutes so they could end their fast before the game, it was duly granted, although not before I heard several people bemoan that we were "pandering to them"  

As it turned out, all 3 of them had very good games after that.

Match officials had good games?

We're breaking with tradition here, are we not?

[Barley Mow]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

Match officials had good games?

We're breaking with tradition here, are we not?

Don't worry, they weren't rugby league match officials! 

[N2022]

21 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't think there is necessarily a need to ban alcohol, but I really do think grounds need to be set up better. On Saturday at Warrington I sat in an area that is classed as a Family Stand, or certainly has been in the past. Yet tbh it was pretty unpleasant with a bunch of loudmouths who were just drinking and effing and blinding every other word. 

I have no desire to take my 7 year old daughter to sit there. I do think we miss a trick somewhat on having different areas that maybe cater for different customer segments, whether that be Muslims, families, tee-totallers etc. 

It often gets pointed out on here the level of stick Angela Powers got for complaining about baby-changing facilities at the HJ - and I think it demonstrates that many are not interested in other people's experiences or what may work for them. 

I definitely think we can be better in quite a few areas. 

I agree your points seem very fair. Wouldn't want a total stadium ban on alcohol, but sounds like better stewarding of excesses and antisocial behaviour could increase appeal to lots of demographics, basically anyone who wants to enjoy the game unhindered by idiocy. 

That said, as context, my impressions of RL have been very positive across internationals and games at Rhinos. Maybe sitting in the right/wrong areas, but the language is minimal compared with the foul torrent at football and I've only seen one nasty drink(?) scene with a set-to between guys at a RLWC. Far more drink issues at t20 cricket from what I see.

[headtackle]

On 02/04/2024 at 15:46, meast said:

If it's of interest, Giants recently became the first Super League club to host a community iftar.

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/62605/huddersfield-giants-host-community-iftar-to-mark-ramadan#:~:text=Huddersfield Giants last night (Tuesday,Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

I was invited along as chair of the HGSA but unfortunately work commitments meant I couldn't make it.

We have a huge Muslim/Asian community in and around Huddersfield and across Kirklees, we recently ran an initiative led by new director Jas Atwal and Masood Ahmed, where a free bus was on hand to take anyone from the Asian community to the game against St Helens as guests of the club, the take up wasn't that great but the club are looking at trying to find ways to get into and draw support from local communities.

Trying to appeal to Muslim communities has been talked about for a long time but IMO we have easier nuts to crack.

Muslims with an Asian background will gravitate to one summer sport being cricket. We cannot compete with that 

[Anita Bath]

On 04/04/2024 at 22:44, meast said:

Slightly off on a tangent here, but at the last non league football game I attended, 2 of the match officials and 1 of the players were fasting and requested that the kick off be delayed by 10 minutes so they could end their fast before the game, it was duly granted, although not before I heard several people bemoan that we were "pandering to them"  

As it turned out, all 3 of them had very good games after that.

If kick off was advertised as say 3pm then it would be frustrating to have to wait around for 10 more minutes. By all means accommodate these matters (pander to them?) by changing the advertised KO time so folks can plan their travel etc.

I remember the days at my club were you'd phone up and ask what time is kick off and the secretary replied “what time can you make it?”

[Wakefield Ram]

Sonny Bill Williams 

https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/sbw-opens-up-about-his-diet-and-training-during-ramadan-30001/

Edited April 8 by Wakefield Ram

[meast]

15 hours ago, headtackle said:

Trying to appeal to Muslim communities has been talked about for a long time but IMO we have easier nuts to crack.

Muslims with an Asian background will gravitate to one summer sport being cricket. We cannot compete with that 

Who says we have to compete?

Why can't Muslim and Asian people like both cricket and RL?

We should be looking to be inclusive of and encouraging everyone to come along to our sport, not trying "to crack a nut".

[meast]

7 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

If kick off was advertised as say 3pm then it would be frustrating to have to wait around for 10 more minutes. By all means accommodate these matters (pander to them?) by changing the advertised KO time so folks can plan their travel etc.

I remember the days at my club were you'd phone up and ask what time is kick off and the secretary replied “what time can you make it?”

Kick off was delayed by 10 minutes to 19.55, no issues, why wouldn't you "pander" to them? 

People who are fasting for religious and cultural needs still need to eat and drink just like the rest of us.

[headtackle]

33 minutes ago, meast said:

Who says we have to compete?

Why can't Muslim and Asian people like both cricket and RL?

We should be looking to be inclusive of and encouraging everyone to come along to our sport, not trying "to crack a nut".

Like it or not, we are an entertainment industry and we have to compete for disposable income which is a scarce resource. 

Of course, anyone from any community can like more than one sport. I like and watch regularly rugby league, football, cricket, horse racing etc etc but have to choose carefully where I decide to spend my spectator cash.

Re cricket they have got the hundred and the 20:20 plus test and one day internationals. They are a very big draw in the summer months especially weekends

I think RL is already pretty inclusive. Granted the majority of any crowd will be white but that is simply reflects the demographic of towns like St Helens, Wigan etc etc. 

In West Lancashire and Hull, the "Muslim market" is relatively small. Demographically its more of an issue for teams like Huddersfield and Bradford. 

In terms of marketing spend though I think you would get a better return and more bums on seats from focussing on other groups   

 

[LeeF]

1 hour ago, headtackle said:

Like it or not, we are an entertainment industry and we have to compete for disposable income which is a scarce resource. 

Of course, anyone from any community can like more than one sport. I like and watch regularly rugby league, football, cricket, horse racing etc etc but have to choose carefully where I decide to spend my spectator cash.

Re cricket they have got the hundred and the 20:20 plus test and one day internationals. They are a very big draw in the summer months especially weekends

I think RL is already pretty inclusive. Granted the majority of any crowd will be white but that is simply reflects the demographic of towns like St Helens, Wigan etc etc. 

In West Lancashire and Hull, the "Muslim market" is relatively small. Demographically its more of an issue for teams like Huddersfield and Bradford. 

In terms of marketing spend though I think you would get a better return and more bums on seats from focussing on other groups   

 

You do know that cricket has a massive racism issue and not just in Yorkshire don’t you?

And why shouldn’t we try to become more inclusive and target other markets? Our current demographic is reducing so which other groups would you target?

[headtackle]

4 hours ago, LeeF said:

You do know that cricket has a massive racism issue and not just in Yorkshire don’t you?

And why shouldn’t we try to become more inclusive and target other markets? Our current demographic is reducing so which other groups would you target?

Not sure why you have referred to racism in cricket as don't see that as relevant. Racism unfortunately exists in a lot of sports and areas of society and as you say not just in Yorkshire. Frim what I see in our local leagues there is not a racism problem but am not daft and know there are issues in some leagues 

If you read my post I am not saying that clubs should not target the muslim market at all. I am simply saying that in some areas there are not that many muslims so there is likely to be very little upside . I am also saying that in places like Bradford and Huddersfield, there are a lot more muslims so it may be well worth having a go at that market as there could be a big upside. At the end of the day from a business point of view you want a return on your investment

Re the current demographic, I am not sure what that is these days - imagine IMG have all that data. I watch Saints and we seem to have a healthy mix of all age groups - attendances are fairly steady so my assumption is that as older generations pass on they are being replaced by the young uns.  Not sure what it is like at some of the smaller clubs and perhaps the die hards are starting to die out.

 

 

 

 

 

[LeeF]

5 minutes ago, headtackle said:

Not sure why you have referred to racism in cricket as don't see that as relevant. Racism unfortunately exists in a lot of sports and areas of society and as you say not just in Yorkshire. Frim what I see in our local leagues there is not a racism problem but am not daft and know there are issues in some leagues 

If you read my post I am not saying that clubs should not target the muslim market at all. I am simply saying that in some areas there are not that many muslims so there is likely to be very little upside . I am also saying that in places like Bradford and Huddersfield, there are a lot more muslims so it may be well worth having a go at that market as there could be a big upside. At the end of the day from a business point of view you want a return on your investment

Re the current demographic, I am not sure what that is these days - imagine IMG have all that data. I watch Saints and we seem to have a healthy mix of all age groups - attendances are fairly steady so my assumption is that as older generations pass on they are being replaced by the young uns.  Not sure what it is like at some of the smaller clubs and perhaps the die hards are starting to die out.

 

 

 

 

 

Racism in cricket is very relevant as the claim was made that it was the sport that Muslims preferred. I know that some have walked away from cricket due to the racism and it’s not small numbers.

The demographic of a lot of clubs, including some in SL, is awful with a reducing elderly base being clearly evident. I’m glad that Saints are bucking that trend but I feel that they are more of an outlier than the general rule across the sport.

Like it or not the sport has an “alcohol & gambling” image which will take a long time to change but in the interim does create significant barriers. I don’t want to spend a match sitting not to a group of drunken idiots and based on posts on this forum I’m not the only one.

Ending on a positive note Bradford are really trying to engage with their local community with people who attended events over the last few weeks saying that they were very enjoyable. It would also seem that Huddersfield are trying something similar. Hopefully they both continue to build on these & get their rewards.

[Anita Bath]

8 hours ago, meast said:

Kick off was delayed by 10 minutes to 19.55, no issues, why wouldn't you "pander" to them? 

People who are fasting for religious and cultural needs still need to eat and drink just like the rest of us.

I didnt say that. Yes these groups need to eat and other groups need to plan their journeys to and from the game. So why not set kick off time as 19.55 instead of 19.45? I am guessing you dont use public transport to the game and hence dont risk missing your train if the game kicks off later than advertised.

Or would advertising the actual KO time be pandering to others?

[LeeF]

38 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

I didnt say that. Yes these groups need to eat and other groups need to plan their journeys to and from the game. So why not set kick off time as 19.55 instead of 19.45? I am guessing you dont use public transport to the game and hence dont risk missing your train if the game kicks off later than advertised.

Or would advertising the actual KO time be pandering to others?

What level was this match at? When were the match officials appointed?

I think it was a lovely gesture and absolutely the right thing to do

[headtackle]

15 hours ago, LeeF said:

Racism in cricket is very relevant as the claim was made that it was the sport that Muslims preferred. I know that some have walked away from cricket due to the racism and it’s not small numbers.

The demographic of a lot of clubs, including some in SL, is awful with a reducing elderly base being clearly evident. I’m glad that Saints are bucking that trend but I feel that they are more of an outlier than the general rule across the sport.

Like it or not the sport has an “alcohol & gambling” image which will take a long time to change but in the interim does create significant barriers. I don’t want to spend a match sitting not to a group of drunken idiots and based on posts on this forum I’m not the only one.

Ending on a positive note Bradford are really trying to engage with their local community with people who attended events over the last few weeks saying that they were very enjoyable. It would also seem that Huddersfield are trying something similar. Hopefully they both continue to build on these & get their rewards.

Ok I see where you are coming from now.  

Other than the sponsor being Bet Fred I dont particularly think that Superleague has a "gambling image". It is not as if there are betting terminals inside grounds like there are at football and/or when games are on TV, shirts are not plastered with the internet gambling companies logos and we do not get regular doses of Ray Winston telling us to bet now on the second half etc. Can see why some would be put off by Bet Fred but personally I have more of an issue with Totally Wicked and vaping than gambling - each to their own I suppose and as a sport we have not reached a position where we can pick and choose our sponsors - hopefully IMG can sort that !

Re Drinking I take 2 young lads and do my best to avoid drunken idiots. I usually drive to games so do not drink at matches but as said above I would prefer to sit in an alcohol free zone where possible. You can see at a Grand Final what alcohol can do to some of the fans particularly when your team starts losing. The most annoying person is the one that spends more time getting up to go to the bar or toilet than sit in their seat watching the game. Saying that again beggars can't be choosers and beer sales on matchdays must bring in a lot of revenue for clubs.

 

 

[LeeF]

1 hour ago, headtackle said:

Ok I see where you are coming from now.  

Other than the sponsor being Bet Fred I dont particularly think that Superleague has a "gambling image". It is not as if there are betting terminals inside grounds like there are at football and/or when games are on TV, shirts are not plastered with the internet gambling companies logos and we do not get regular doses of Ray Winston telling us to bet now on the second half etc. Can see why some would be put off by Bet Fred but personally I have more of an issue with Totally Wicked and vaping than gambling - each to their own I suppose and as a sport we have not reached a position where we can pick and choose our sponsors - hopefully IMG can sort that !

Re Drinking I take 2 young lads and do my best to avoid drunken idiots. I usually drive to games so do not drink at matches but as said above I would prefer to sit in an alcohol free zone where possible. You can see at a Grand Final what alcohol can do to some of the fans particularly when your team starts losing. The most annoying person is the one that spends more time getting up to go to the bar or toilet than sit in their seat watching the game. Saying that again beggars can't be choosers and beer sales on matchdays must bring in a lot of revenue for clubs.

 

 

I suppose when the just about only title sponsor is a gambling company it does create a potential image but I get what you are saying. The last 5 words in your second paragraph are spot on and I hope for the same.

The rest I think we agree on. Maybe more alcohol zones are the way forward. 

[LeeF]

15 hours ago, LeeF said:

What level was this match at? When were the match officials appointed?

I think it was a lovely gesture and absolutely the right thing to do

@StandOffHalf why the confused face? Do you think it was an incorrect thing to do and if so why?

[Click]

9 minutes ago, LeeF said:

@StandOffHalf why the confused face? Do you think it was an incorrect thing to do and if so why?

Look, some people plan their journeys with minutes to spare!

Can you imagine the turmoil in their life by a game being delayed from 7:45 - 7:55?  I dread to think of the far flung consequences of this. 

[LeeF]

1 hour ago, Click said:

Look, some people plan their journeys with minutes to spare!

Can you imagine the turmoil in their life by a game being delayed from 7:45 - 7:55?  I dread to think of the far flung consequences of this. 

I hope they never go to a televised SL game. 

[meast]

17 hours ago, LeeF said:

What level was this match at? When were the match officials appointed?

I think it was a lovely gesture and absolutely the right thing to do

It was level 9 of the English system, the match officials are usually appointed a week or so in advance.

The request (to partake in iftar) was received with a couple of days notice I believe.

But as most people know, fasting doesn't end at a certain time on the clock, it ends at a certain time of the day i.e.: sundown, the 10 minutes extra was because the sunset was slightly later than anticipated.

Edited April 9 by meast

[meast]

18 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

I didnt say that. Yes these groups need to eat and other groups need to plan their journeys to and from the game. So why not set kick off time as 19.55 instead of 19.45? I am guessing you dont use public transport to the game and hence dont risk missing your train if the game kicks off later than advertised.

Or would advertising the actual KO time be pandering to others?

I understand that, but that's no different than anything else than could cause a game to kick off or finish late?

[LeeF]

18 minutes ago, meast said:

It was level 9 of the English system, the match officials are usually appointed a week or so in advance.

The request (to partake in iftar) was received with a couple of days notice I believe.

But as most people know, fasting doesn't end at a certain time on the clock, it ends at a certain time of the day i.e.: sundown, the 10 minutes extra was because the sunset was slightly later than anticipated.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

All the more reason to wonder how anyone can find fault with what they did. It’s such a small action that says much more in a very good way and there is no rational reason not to support nor if next season (Eid is tomorrow) any RL is similar impacted as natural breaks occur already.