Leeds Restructure Rugby Department

[Tommygilf]

Gary Hetherington stepping back from the Rugby Department (ie recruitment and retention). Someone to be appointed towards end of June iirc.

Edited May 29 by Tommygilf

[Tommygilf]

This doesn't half read as a club behind the 8 ball. Feels like a "we have to announce something" holding press release. 

GH hasn't thrown Rohan Smith under the bus, and has seemingly blamed himself. I agree he is a major limitation atm, having not formed a convincingly top drawer squad since perhaps 2017, so it is good to see some movement there.

I can't help but think this will do nothing for fans wanting the coach to go too. This feels like GH saying "I'm out of my depth, it's too much" and the club can't just sack Smith because despite having a very long time to work on it and keep tabs on any potential replacements, we have done nothing. Perhaps GH just wants to pass the buck on that front.

[Coggo]

Not enough depth at Leeds, in my view. Numbers 1-13 are good, then it quickly falls away to odds, sods and kids. Too many average players.

 

[Chrispmartha]

13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

This doesn't half read as a club behind the 8 ball. Feels like a "we have to announce something" holding press release. 

GH hasn't thrown Rohan Smith under the bus, and has seemingly blamed himself. I agree he is a major limitation atm, having not formed a convincingly top drawer squad since perhaps 2017, so it is good to see some movement there.

I can't help but think this will do nothing for fans wanting the coach to go too. This feels like GH saying "I'm out of my depth, it's too much" and the club can't just sack Smith because despite having a very long time to work on it and keep tabs on any potential replacements, we have done nothing. Perhaps GH just wants to pass the buck on that front.

We've needed an appointment like this ever since Sinfield left the similar role.

Doesn't matter what they do now the fans will just say sack smith anyway without doing any critical thinking of whether this is a good move or not (it is).

 

the new guy might come in and give the fans what they want anyway.

 

Ive got zero clue who this person will be though, of course people are already just saying Sinfield, but it seems they've forgotten he quit the role a couple of years ago.

[Chrispmartha]

6 minutes ago, Coggo said:

Not enough depth at Leeds, in my view. Numbers 1-13 are good, then it quickly falls away to odds, sods and kids. Too many average players.

 

The issues at Leeds run deeper than the playing squad or head coach and it's good to see them looking to try rectify it.

[Spotty Herbert]

As Chrispmartha said, this is just a rehash of the announcement that was made when Sir Kev returned in 2018(?), leaving in 2020, since when GH has had full control again.

Perhaps Richie Myler could do the job now he has experienced it at Hull? It's the sort of crazy decision we expect from Headingley these days. For Rohan's sake I hope it is Uncle Tony. For everyone else's sake I hope we look for someone with real experience in this role.

[Chrispmartha]

8 minutes ago, Spotty Herbert said:

As Chrispmartha said, this is just a rehash of the announcement that was made when Sir Kev returned in 2018(?), leaving in 2020, since when GH has had full control again.

Perhaps Richie Myler could do the job now he has experienced it at Hull? It's the sort of crazy decision we expect from Headingley these days. For Rohan's sake I hope it is Uncle Tony. For everyone else's sake I hope we look for someone with real experience in this role.

I would have thought the pool of experienced people in this role is quite small.

 

[Spotty Herbert]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

I would have thought the pool of experienced people in this role is quite small.

 

It is in this country. Every NRL team has an equivalent who is in charge of pathways, salary cap, contracts etc. 

[Damien]

It comes across as very reactionary and shows a real lack of planning. It also seems like a diversion and you do wonder if they can't actually sack Smith because they can't get a decent replacement. Hull FC seemed to have an awful lot of trouble.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Spotty Herbert said:

It is in this country. Every NRL team has an equivalent who is in charge of pathways, salary cap, contracts etc. 

That's kind of what I meant, I d be amazed if we can attract an experienced director of Rugby from Australia though

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

It comes across as very reactionary and shows a real lack of planning. It also seems like a diversion and you do wonder if they can't actually sack Smith because they can't get a decent replacement. Hull FC seemed to have an awful lot of trouble.

In fairness Leeds aren't in the more that Hull FC were, despite all thee hooha we could be well inside the top six if we go well in the next 4 fixtures, I get that some fans think that just sacking Smith is going to be answer, but its clear that its not just the coach that's the issue at Leeds - hence 4 head coaches in six years

[DoubleD]

42 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

This doesn't half read as a club behind the 8 ball. Feels like a "we have to announce something" holding press release. 

GH hasn't thrown Rohan Smith under the bus, and has seemingly blamed himself. I agree he is a major limitation atm, having not formed a convincingly top drawer squad since perhaps 2017, so it is good to see some movement there.

I can't help but think this will do nothing for fans wanting the coach to go too. This feels like GH saying "I'm out of my depth, it's too much" and the club can't just sack Smith because despite having a very long time to work on it and keep tabs on any potential replacements, we have done nothing. Perhaps GH just wants to pass the buck on that front.

I've been calling this for long enough.

Step 1 of many that need to be taken but it's a start.

Now need to make sure they recruit the right person.

They haven't sacked Smith for 2 reasons. Firstly because it creates a rudderless void at the top and they need some leadership. Secondly because the new Sporting Director will want to take stock of the situation and then decide if he wants to make this change and bring 'his/her/their person' in. Whatever way you look at it, Smith's position has become significantly weaker. It's unlikely the new Sporting Director won't want to bring in their person

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Coggo said:

Not enough depth at Leeds, in my view. Numbers 1-13 are good, then it quickly falls away to odds, sods and kids. Too many average players.

 

In the full team we have 4 props... it's not good enough

[Tommygilf]

I agree sacking the coach doesn't solve all the problems, but as I've said since last season I don't think Smith improves anything either.

It's good to see GH stepping back imo, and it's been needed for a while. I think sacking Smith is something he can't bring himself to do, he was his man and his pick after a reportedly extensive search, and clearly he feels the problems are bigger than Smith.

That said, this feels like a major distraction are sop to appease those calling for the coach to go. I don't think it succeeds in that, and just shows how poorly the rugby department is being administrated at present that no backups or preplanning seems to have gone into this at all.

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I agree sacking the coach doesn't solve all the problems, but as I've said since last season I don't think Smith improves anything either.

It's good to see GH stepping back imo, and it's been needed for a while. I think sacking Smith is something he can't bring himself to do, he was his man and his pick after a reportedly extensive search, and clearly he feels the problems are bigger than Smith.

That said, this feels like a major distraction are sop to appease those calling for the coach to go. I don't think it succeeds in that, and just shows how poorly the rugby department is being administrated at present that no backups or preplanning seems to have gone into this at all.

If GH thinks it will appease the braying mob then he has lost the plot, it's obvious nothing other than Smith being immediately sacked will do that. And I don't think making sacking to appease disgruntled fans is necessarily the smartest of moves.

However if this is the way to go (ie director of Rugby) and IMO it clearly is then it may well be best for them to take the overview on things when they arrive, there's no threat of relegation and as I say we are actually still in a position to get into the playoffs.

If the new DOR thinks Smith isn't the correct coach he will be gone at the end f the season, that's how I personally see it panning out.

 

Although what I will say, if we lose any of the next three games Smith will be gone.

[graveyard johnny]

32 minutes ago, Spotty Herbert said:

For Rohan's sake I hope it is Uncle Tony. For everyone else's sake I hope we look for someone with real experience in this role.

it could be uncle buck- uncle fester or uncle sam but it wont make a bit of difference- the talents just not there in the modern era and what talent there is is either spread too thin round SL  or stifled to death with modern pedantic rules and whistle crazy officials that we never had before this era

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

If GH thinks it will appease the braying mob then he has lost the plot, it's obvious nothing other than Smith being immediately sacked will do that. And I don't think making sacking to appease disgruntled fans is necessarily the smartest of moves.

However if this is the way to go (ie director of Rugby) and IMO it clearly is then it may well be best for them to take the overview on things when they arrive, there's no threat of relegation and as I say we are actually still in a position to get into the playoffs.

If the new DOR thinks Smith isn't the correct coach he will be gone at the end f the season, that's how I personally see it panning out.

 

Although what I will say, if we lose any of the next three games Smith will be gone.

I think you might have hit the nail on the head that he is a bit out of touch tbh, and perhaps he is a bit delusional about it all at the moment. Since the stadium rebuild the club seems to have been really directionless yet the message from the top hasn't reflected reality.

I think that disgruntled fans is just a symptom of terrible performances. That is a perfectly good reason to sack a coach.

I tend to agree with you, I think this is a way to put off the inevitable. However if it is inevitable, why wait?

I agree. A loss against any of Hull or Cas, or Leigh at home will be pretty damning, however I do also think that even a poor performance scraping a win like last time against Hull won't be good enough either.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I can't help but think this will do nothing for fans wanting the coach to go too. This feels like GH saying "I'm out of my depth, it's too much" and the club can't just sack Smith because despite having a very long time to work on it and keep tabs on any potential replacements, we have done nothing. Perhaps GH just wants to pass the buck on that front.

Maybe he just wants less work. He's at that time of life. To say that he's out of his depth is nonsense, bearing in mind what he's achieved over the last 38 years.

[Tommygilf]

 

I can't shake the feeling that this all feels very unplanned and knee jerk "we have to do something, now".

GH said the role hadn't been filled since Sinfield left, but offered no real explanation as to why that is the case, or why now is the time we're changing that situation. 

It just feels rushed. We want a vast amount of experience and knowledge yet we also want them to start asap. It just feels like this is something which could have been done behind closed doors months or even years ago, likewise with potential headcoach options. A person with oversight of these roles in the modern world needs to have a list of potential candidates that they like, even if they aren't all available. It just seems to me that there has been no alternative plans considered.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Griff said:

Maybe he just wants less work. He's at that time of life. To say that he's out of his depth is nonsense, bearing in mind what he's achieved over the last 38 years.

I think he really wanted the Sinfield appointment to work out so he could step back a few years ago.

I also think (and IIRC Sinfield mentions this in his book) that his mate becoming seriously ill changed SInfields mindset a little and he wasn't enjoying the role so made the change to coaching, which he also nearly quit very early on after moving to Union.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

Maybe he just wants less work. He's at that time of life. To say that he's out of his depth is nonsense, bearing in mind what he's achieved over the last 38 years.

People at the end of their careers regularly find themselves outpaced by a world that is different around them. He has achieved a lot yes, but he's had over half a decade of failure now. 

He wanted Sinfield to take over most of the rugby role, I think that collapsing really affected him and his plans.

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

 

I can't shake the feeling that this all feels very unplanned and knee jerk "we have to do something, now".

GH said the role hadn't been filled since Sinfield left, but offered no real explanation as to why that is the case, or why now is the time we're changing that situation. 

It just feels rushed. We want a vast amount of experience and knowledge yet we also want them to start asap. It just feels like this is something which could have been done behind closed doors months or even years ago, likewise with potential headcoach options. A person with oversight of these roles in the modern world needs to have a list of potential candidates that they like, even if they aren't all available. It just seems to me that there has been no alternative plans considered.

I think finances may have played a part in not replacing Sinfield, it was in 2021 which was still being affected by Covid.

[whatmichaelsays]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

 

I can't shake the feeling that this all feels very unplanned and knee jerk "we have to do something, now".

GH said the role hadn't been filled since Sinfield left, but offered no real explanation as to why that is the case, or why now is the time we're changing that situation. 

It just feels rushed. We want a vast amount of experience and knowledge yet we also want them to start asap. It just feels like this is something which could have been done behind closed doors months or even years ago, likewise with potential headcoach options. A person with oversight of these roles in the modern world needs to have a list of potential candidates that they like, even if they aren't all available. It just seems to me that there has been no alternative plans considered.

I said when the Sinfield appointment was made that it felt like Gary Hetherington's retirement / exit plan. Only this time it has been thinly disguised as a "throw some meat to the fans calling for the Head Coach's head". I'd be inclined to agree that this feels rushed, although I do think that some sort of announcement like this has been in the making for a while - it's just that there seems to be a pressure on the club to "do something" (or be seen to do something) to relieve the pressure around Rohan. 

Sinfield left Leeds in 2021 and in fairness to the club, the priority was probably more about keeping the lights on at that time in the aftermath of COVID (Leeds took on the largest COVID loans in RL and were the hardest hit by the drop in hospitality revenue, so senior hires probably weren't high on the agenda). 

Hetherington is 70 - he likely doesn't need the hassle of running Leeds any more, so time to appoint someone to take care of the rugby / recruitment jollies to Australia, promote somebody in the commercial dept (probably Rob Oates) to be Chief Executive, then retire into the sun to spend some quality time with Kath.

Edited May 29 by whatmichaelsays

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I think finances may have played a part in not replacing Sinfield, it was in 2021 which was still being affected by Covid.

I agree, though that was still 3 and a half years ago now - and we've appointed Smith and a whole host of new back office staff since then too.

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I agree, though that was still 3 and a half years ago now - and we've appointed Smith and a whole host of new back office staff since then too.

I can understand GH maybe being sceptical about replacing Sinfield when that didn't work, but it's clear that this appointment should have been made way before now.

But at least he's recognised that now.