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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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The figures for the top four Championship teams were: 1st - £650k; 2nd - £600k; 3rd - £550k and 4th - £500k, then there was a gap and a sliding scale for the other clubs.   The two relegated teams would also be getting parachute payments of several hundred thousand pounds as well.   

 

When are the Championship clubs given this money? I am presuming this is given as prize money for the final league positions at the end of this season. What happens in 2015 and beyond? Is it ranked or something?

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Has anyone made sense of the conflicting reports, reading this on the BBC;

 

The restructure proposal was voted in unanimously by the 14 Super League clubs at a meeting in St Helens.

And this on the Good Doctors twitter feed;

 

On a serious note, I did listen to the fans and I did vote against the new structure. However, the SPORT will have my full support

Suppose the Doc's twitter feed could be a spoof, but not seen anyone call it out yet, just seems odd.

 

Not convinced by the new structure myself, seems gimmicky, be interesting to see when the campaign to start P&R into and out of Championship 1 starts.  :ph34r:

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When are the Championship clubs given this money? I am presuming this is given as prize money for the final league positions at the end of this season. What happens in 2015 and beyond? Is it ranked or something?

 

If Mr Lenaghan gets his way on the governance and finance side of this matter they may not get it this year.   He doesn't want any money going to the Championship clubs.   However, I think the proposal is for this sort of funding each year because they also propose a salary cap of £900k for SL2.   I don't know if any future SL club being relegated would receive a parachute payment after this year.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.

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Has anyone made sense of the conflicting reports, reading this on the BBC;

And this on the Good Doctors twitter feed;

Suppose the Doc's twitter feed could be a spoof, but not seen anyone call it out yet, just seems odd.

 

Not convinced by the new structure myself, seems gimmicky, be interesting to see when the campaign to start P&R into and out of Championship 1 starts.  :ph34r:

It was unanimous to reduce to 12, but not to go for the nonsense structure.

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

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I will be reserving judgement and see how it all pans out.....

I don't think it will work but I am not daft enough to be pig headed and say its a doomed system. ....there is no real comparison and therefore is a new experience for all.....its now upto the people who wanted this to make it a success. ....good luck and as always it will be an event full ride!!

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Suppose the Doc's twitter feed could be a spoof, but not seen anyone call it out yet, just seems odd.

 

Or it could be they all voted yes to reducing SL to 12 teams but some clubs (incl Salford) voted no to the 3 x 8 split (but lost the vote)...

 

If Mr Lenaghan gets his way on the governance and finance side of this matter they may not get it this year.   He doesn't want any money going to the Championship clubs.   However, I think the proposal is for this sort of funding each year because they also propose a salary cap of £900k for SL2.   I don't know if any future SL club being relegated would receive a parachute payment after this year.

 

Surely there is no way they'll gift a club 650k prize money. Any promoted club won't need that as they'll be given SL monies for the next season... The 650k will probably be a parachute payment or to the top Championship club (if they don't promote in the playoffs) for the next season...

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If Mr Lenaghan gets his way on the governance and finance side of this matter they may not get it this year. He doesn't want any money going to the Championship clubs. However, I think the proposal is for this sort of funding each year because they also propose a salary cap of £900k for SL2. I don't know if any future SL club being relegated would receive a parachute payment after this year.

all this nonsense about SL2.... surely it won't be called this??? If it is can someone provide a source. ...if not can we put an end to this misquote please??

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It was unanimous to reduce to 12, but not to go for the nonsense structure.

 

 

Or it could be they all voted yes to reducing SL to 12 teams but some clubs (incl Salford) voted no to the 3 x 8 split (but lost the vote)...

Fair enough, thanks.

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Is it only fans of teams in SL which are unhappy about this?

 

No

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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So unless something unexpected happens, as of 2015 the 24 teams in the Super League and Championship are going to split into three separate Finals Series each involving 8 teams.

 

Regardless of whether this is the right move for the game or not is debatable, however as it looks increasingly likely that it's going to occur, we should be looking to make the best of it and ensure that the way it is branded and promoted displays it in the best light possible.

 

One of these things is how we label everything below the top tier (both regular competition and finals series) so it just doesn't sound cheap and nasty or as something not worth playing for.  

 

Personally as the two competitions are now so much more inter-twined, I would actually like to see the top tier of competition renamed Super League Premiership, and the second tier the Super League Championship.  Two small tweaks, but straight away there is an association between the two, an it creates an opportunity to continue to extend the Super League brand.

 

Also considering it isn't unrealistic that between the two divisions in 2015 there will be teams in England, Wales (Crusaders) and France (Toulouse & Catalans), it helps in the selling of the 'European' element of the brand.  

 

I would also be leaning towards Championship 1 returning to the name National League for a number of reasons including as it will be pretty much a UK only competition (at least in the foreseeable future), it is pretty much completely separate from top 2 competitions in how they interact (no joint Finals Series, only standard traditional P&R) and that because I personally dislike the title 'Championship 1'...

 

For the Finals Series, I'd love to see below the top 8 which should continue to play for the Super League trophy, that these Finals are playing for trophies which are named in honour of some of the famous former British players in the game.  I would seriously dislike if we come out with tacky names like 'Super League 1' and 'Super League 2' trophies, or the Super Championship and Championship trophies.

 

As a fan, and I'd imagine it would be the same for the players, winning say the David Valentine Shield (Just a random pick) has an element more prestige than some soulless 'Tier 2 Cup'.

 

At least through this way it gives us an opportunity to recognise some more of the players who helped make this game great.

 

Anyway keen to hear what anyone else thinks...

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Surely the season ticket will be for the first part of the season and a new season ticket required for the second half as super league prices are higher than champ due to higher profile fixtures? I think this idea is good but also a last throw off the dice if it fails. If it doesn't work I fully expect the next change to be a league of ten that will not have promotion or relegation.

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Surely the season ticket will be for the first part of the season and a new season ticket required for the second half as super league prices are higher than champ due to higher profile fixtures? I think this idea is good but also a last throw off the dice if it fails. If it doesn't work I fully expect the next change to be a league of ten that will not have promotion or relegation.

See, I've seen this suggested so many times but I don't understand why?

Why not just have a season ticket that covers all 14 games? History shows that people don't like paying on the gate in large numbers, and I doubt they'll be able to afford another chunk at the end of the season.

Having a season pass that covers at least 14 games (that's how many are guaranteed) will improve play off attendances, be a good selling point ("more games") and also stop the risk of small crowds at the lower-end play-offs.

If there's a split season pass, I guarantee the play off crowds will be awful all round, and I reckon the negative vibe from that decision (based on the crowds being low) could even be enough to kill off this format.

Season ticket for the season.

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I like the idea of naming trophies after players though this is normally reserved for individual player awards so may seem a bit strange - but competitions should not be SL prem etc as the sport is not super league it's rugby league. You can't have the rugby league super league premiership.

At the end of each season I would have:

Super League Play-Offs - Super League Champions

Super League Fringe Play-Offs - Super League Fringe Champions (2nd 8)

and Rugby League Premiership Play-Offs - Winners (3rd 8)

Then you can rename the other divisions below that accordingly.

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But I believe that such a level of play would take RL where it deserves to be. ie a huge sport. The rest would fall into place because although RL does not have much money, the important thing is that it is an incredible game and when played between equal opponents is the best.

 

John,

 

The new structure has an elite "8", Four failures leave the competition and the eight play each other again to decide the winner of that Elite competition. These games will I assume be on the season ticket and provide top attendances to up the average attendances for the top eight. More money.

 

We already have a Superleague clearly split between clubs who are operating at a high level and clubs who are badly struggling. They are easy to list - Salford who will struggle no more until the Dr. leaves, then Fartown, Wire, Leeds, Wigan, Cats, Saints and Hull.

 

So we will actually have as high a level an elite competition as we can get, and this must be where the best players will want to be. We have seen the top clubs like Salford (they are now) Wigan, Leeds, Hull Cats, etc strip the best talent on the cheap out of the lower six SL clubs at a time when true talent is reducing due to the drain to Australia.

 

These lower SL clubs are struggling to meet the licensing requirements, but the change breaks them free of that. They can sell their best players to the top eight as they are doing (the sadness of me is your club is selling = Kopzac, Whitehead, Bateman). They can drop their academies (several have been condemned by the RFL) and drop the backroom staff to rescue their debt situation.

 

In short they can realise players assets and drop their levels of operations/costs down to reduce their debts and enable them to operate at an even keel. This is why many who think hard about the effects of these changes say that the biggest financial gap will now end up between the top eight and the rest.

 

The supposed saviour of this is that the two relegated clubs 2014 (who may be devastated) two small championship clubs, and four failed Superleague clubs will play out a middle eight competition re-branded "Superleage 2" or whatever and as a result of the meaningful element of this competition i,e, the "jeapordy" they will be fighting tooth and nail in every match before large crowds. Or so KPMG say.

 

I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic about the changes I'm excited by them as it will be great fun watching what happens. Of course I hope this will "work" but it depends on your definition of "working". For some it will work if THEIR club somehow get in the Superleague 12, then if their clubs lands an "8" spot. They will be partying down Featherstone way I can tell you!.

 

But if that happens to my good Collier friends, it will be on a rich mans £Millions the same as at Salford not on the success of the new structure. Not good business for me. Where this pans out will be fascinating, recently in debating a 10 club SL people dismissed it as being "Boring" because clubs would play each other three times, even though this system throws up exactly the same thing.

 

Why was it dismissed as such? IMVHO because there's a "belief" this system will rejuvinate clubs, it will bring inn new wealthy owners and recreate the "dream" of two quick promotions and you are on all of a sudden on Everest looking down on the rest.

 

So let's live the dream whilst at the same time keeping an eye on reality, and the fascination for me will be will the crowds go up for the middle 8 clubs? Will SKY focus on that competition enough to justify paying them TV money?? Because if it does go wrong then in what 3 or 4 years time we may well arrive at a 10 club SL with all the money suggestion on the table, and by that time it may actually be effectively increasing Superleague by two??

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The clubs have relied on the structure of the sport for too long to generate interest, rather than their own momentum and ideas at attracting punters.

 

Since the main body of clubs now have an opportunity to rise and fall (rather than boom or bust) I hope to see clubs going at the marketing like hammer and tongs rather than using the 3x8 as a selling point because frankly licencing didn't sell itself, and I would argue Super League hasn't either, certainly not in the licencing period.

 

In conclusion the 3x8 isn't the be all and end all, it oils the wheels a bit better to sell, sell, sell at Championship level and for SL to get sponsorship and more TV interest. This IMO is where the measure of success should be, not whether 3x8 is "understandable".

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So unless something unexpected happens, as of 2015 the 24 teams in the Super League and Championship are going to split into three separate Finals Series each involving 8 teams.

 

Regardless of whether this is the right move for the game or not is debatable, however as it looks increasingly likely that it's going to occur, we should be looking to make the best of it and ensure that the way it is branded and promoted displays it in the best light possible.

 

One of these things is how we label everything below the top tier (both regular competition and finals series) so it just doesn't sound cheap and nasty or as something not worth playing for.  

 

Personally as the two competitions are now so much more inter-twined, I would actually like to see the top tier of competition renamed Super League Premiership, and the second tier the Super League Championship.  Two small tweaks, but straight away there is an association between the two, an it creates an opportunity to continue to extend the Super League brand.

 

Also considering it isn't unrealistic that between the two divisions in 2015 there will be teams in England, Wales (Crusaders) and France (Toulouse & Catalans), it helps in the selling of the 'European' element of the brand.  

 

I would also be leaning towards Championship 1 returning to the name National League for a number of reasons including as it will be pretty much a UK only competition (at least in the foreseeable future), it is pretty much completely separate from top 2 competitions in how they interact (no joint Finals Series, only standard traditional P&R) and that because I personally dislike the title 'Championship 1'...

 

For the Finals Series, I'd love to see below the top 8 which should continue to play for the Super League trophy, that these Finals are playing for trophies which are named in honour of some of the famous former British players in the game.  I would seriously dislike if we come out with tacky names like 'Super League 1' and 'Super League 2' trophies, or the Super Championship and Championship trophies.

 

As a fan, and I'd imagine it would be the same for the players, winning say the David Valentine Shield (Just a random pick) has an element more prestige than some soulless 'Tier 2 Cup'.

 

At least through this way it gives us an opportunity to recognise some more of the players who helped make this game great.

 

Anyway keen to hear what anyone else thinks...

 

I agree with your thinking here but I'm not sure I quite agree with the naming - right, can't think of better though.  From memory, the proprosal doc has the end of season titles as being:

 

Super League

Super League Qualifying Play Offs

Championship Shield

Championship 1

 

Which, like so much about how rugby league does things, just looks more random the lower you go.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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The clubs have relied on the structure of the sport for too long to generate interest, rather than their own momentum and ideas at attracting punters.

 

Since the main body of clubs now have an opportunity to rise and fall (rather than boom or bust) I hope to see clubs going at the marketing like hammer and tongs rather than using the 3x8 as a selling point because frankly licencing didn't sell itself, and I would argue Super League hasn't either, certainly not in the licencing period.

 

In conclusion the 3x8 isn't the be all and end all, it oils the wheels a bit better to sell, sell, sell at Championship level and for SL to get sponsorship and more TV interest. This IMO is where the measure of success should be, not whether 3x8 is "understandable".

 

Whether 3x8 is understandable and bought into by the fans and armchair viewers at home will have a major influence on obtaining sponsorship and TV interest.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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See, I've seen this suggested so many times but I don't understand why?

Why not just have a season ticket that covers all 14 games? History shows that people don't like paying on the gate in large numbers, and I doubt they'll be able to afford another chunk at the end of the season.

Having a season pass that covers at least 14 games (that's how many are guaranteed) will improve play off attendances, be a good selling point ("more games") and also stop the risk of small crowds at the lower-end play-offs.

If there's a split season pass, I guarantee the play off crowds will be awful all round, and I reckon the negative vibe from that decision (based on the crowds being low) could even be enough to kill off this format.

Season ticket for the season.

 

The extra games at the end need to be well-attended by people paying extra attendance fees.

 

It's one of the ways the RFL is 'guaranteeing' that this will increase income for the game.

 

If it's all covered on a season ticket then that won't happen.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Is it 2up 2down to the third division?

 

I think it's 1 up, 1 down.  The Championship 1 Grand Final winner goes up, whoever's bottom of the third 8 goes down.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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