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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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Well the obvious conclusion to the above posts is to reduce the number of clubs in SLE to 10 whilst at the same time increase the number of french clubs by 2,that would give us the best chance of getting French tv and sponsors on board.

In 5 or 6 years time we could either reintroduce heartland clubs,or better still,we could look at another London franchise,giving us 2 clubs in the capital or franchises from other parts of the uk

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If we leave the championship clubs as they are the reality is that quite a number will no longer exist.Whilst a lot of SL fans would not care too much if this happens -the game would be on a slippery slope.

A lot of the countries top amateur teams and supporters of international and top games come from these areas. to assume they will attach themselves to SL teams is pie in the sky.

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If we leave the championship clubs as they are the reality is that quite a number will no longer exist.Whilst a lot of SL fans would not care too much if this happens -the game would be on a slippery slope.

A lot of the countries top amateur teams and supporters of international and top games come from these areas. to assume they will attach themselves to SL teams is pie in the sky.

Where do the new generation of Bramley fans watch the great game? Hedingley?

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The aussies don't have P&R and ARE world champs...FACT,

Just one question. ...how much of the new talent would have got a chance if P&R been around?

 

It may be a fact but there's no evidence for a cause and effect. 

 

Your one question is mind bogglingly irrelevant. How much old talent would have got a chance? How many pies would we sell? How relevant is this one question to the future of the domestic structure? One thing I know is class is class, the rest are in drag. So no matter what structure you have the best will always come to the top. And for that reason your question is irrelevant.

 

Now if you applied the question to the salary cap rather than P&R it would not be.

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It may be a fact but there's no evidence for a cause and effect.

Your one question is mind bogglingly irrelevant. How much old talent would have got a chance? How many pies would we sell? How relevant is this one question to the future of the domestic structure? One thing I know is class is class, the rest are in drag. So no matter what structure you have the best will always come to the top. And for that reason your question is irrelevant.

Now if you applied the question to the salary cap rather than P&R it would not be.

Disagree, Widnes wouldn't have put faith in youth, London should have put faith in youth, the problem now is who will develop the youth of tomorrow?

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I wish you'd give up. When did RL stop at SL? The day it does is the day the game dies.

There is room within RL for club's of all sizes, my post was in reply to a post leaning towards saying that fans would only support their nearest club regardless of level!

Also why would amateur clubs fold just because a semi pro local side has?

Edited by yipyee
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Disagree, Widnes wouldn't have put faith in youth, London should have put faith in youth, the problem now is who will develop the youth of tomorrow?

The sport has always developed the youth of tomorrow,it wouldn't be here if it haddn't.

The difference now is that the NRL is the finishing school of these players and were these players play there best rugbyleague

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1. Will the difference between a struggling team paying £1.6M and a buoyant team spending £1M be that huge?  I don't think it will.

 

2. Can't speak for Sheffield, but Rovers are already signing SL players in direct competition with other SL clubs (James Cording from Huddersfield as an example had 3 offers from SL clubs, as stated in a recent radio interview).

 

3. We know it's all about the money with a little top up from Feisal will provide all the funding we need to be competitive.

 

1. Perhaps you will explain what you mean by this? If you are spending £600K less than another club it's you that are struggling???

 

2. OK I appreciate this, but haven't a couple of Rovers players gone to SL? Lets have some balance?

 

3. "Little top up"?? I don't buy PR, Viking Warrior has discredited it big time.

 

It seems you tacitly accept that 2x12=3x8 will only be any good to you with  money from Nahaboo. Forget the fabulous wonders of the league re-structure, the fact is that those clubs with money will be those at the top.

 

I hope that Nabbers spends £billions on you.But don't give me all this "buoyant" rubbish!!

Edited by The Parksider
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The sport has always developed the youth of tomorrow,it wouldn't be here if it haddn't.

The difference now is that the NRL is the finishing school of these players and were these players play there best rugbyleague

I agree the universities if you will, but at the moment we are trying to get kids from primary school straight to universities without spending time at high school, DR is one answer to this problem..... Edited by yipyee
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I agree the universities if you will, but at the moment we are trying to get kids from primary school straight to universities without spending time at high school, DR is one answer to this problem.....

Wigan,Sts and leeds are your unis,Warrington want to be there,i cant think or another club thats anywhere near that.

Yep DR is an answer,i actually joined this forum to fightv against DR but when enough clubs and fans think its the right way to go then the argument is lost.

The amateures are now talking about using Pro players.

Like it or nor things are changing.

I just wish they would be open and honest about it.

Wigan.

Wire.

Saints.

London.

Hull.

Leeds.

Giants?.

3French clubs.

Strengthen the European league and strengthen the domestic league at the same time

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Wigan,Sts and leeds are your unis,Warrington want to be there,i cant think or another club thats anywhere near that.

Yep DR is an answer,i actually joined this forum to fightv against DR but when enough clubs and fans think its the right way to go then the argument is lost.

The amateures are now talking about using Pro players.

Like it or nor things are changing.

I just wish they would be open and honest about it.

Wigan.

Wire.

Saints.

London.

Hull.

Leeds.

Giants?.

3French clubs.

Strengthen the European league and strengthen the domestic league at the same time

Totally agree! The smaller clubs are wasting valuable resources trying to fight the big clubs! If they worked with the big clubs (and made sure they weren't being abused) they could have all the players they need with only the cream being lost to SL!

The problem about being honest and showing their hand would make sure a small vocal minority would whip up a frenzy with doomsday cenarios....the RFL are this n that etc....

In a democracy change needs to be sold and accepted. ...

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That seems like a very understandable and workable proposal, infinitely better than 3 x 8. I would support some kind if minimum standards to be attached to the promoted clubs so that we know they will not be automatic yo yos. I think we also need another two teams to get to 40. Who do you suggest ?, Coventry maybe, Toulouse...

coventry & edinburgh id go with..

OLDHAM RLFC

the 8TH most successful team in british RL

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10 Franchises on 10 year licences.

Owners bid to own these and "buy" them by depositing a sum of money with the RFL "a Bond"

The RFL return this cash in 10% segments, 1 each year

The RFL pay interest on the balance back to the club owners.

These owners are encouraged not to build business plans on pie in the sky marketing projections, concerts and other male genitals.

Failure/closure costs you the balance of the "bond"

Licences can be sold/transferred to new owners. Same bond commitment required.

 

At first I suggested 10million with 1 million back, but was told this was unacceptable? Given the owners would get their money back PLUS the SKY cash, I disagree.

 

The alternative is we dance the dance that is popular at Odsal.....lots of owners nobody paying for it or even better, at London, where a prospective owner is being paid to take a 12 month test drive?

 

No more rubbish owners with world domination in their plans....all they need to do is make their clubs self sufficient/profitable in 10 years through good business practice.

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That seems like a very understandable and workable proposal, infinitely better than 3 x 8. I would support some kind if minimum standards to be attached to the promoted clubs so that we know they will not be automatic yo yos. I think we also need another two teams to get to 40. Who do you suggest ?, Coventry maybe, Toulouse.

 

On the subject of French clubs, how to we reconcile relegation ? I can see where they could be relegated to the Championship but if they were to be relegated from that, I don' think Cider 1 would be able to sustain the expenses of travel at that level.

french inclusion in any semi-pro league has proved disasterous and unworkable - it has to be like the Catalans, SL and full-time or nothing with long term guarantees of SL participation say, five years minimum - i'm not saying this is a good idea but I think we need to be realistic

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1. Well the obvious conclusion to the above posts is to reduce the number of clubs in SLE to 10 whilst at the same time increase the number of french clubs by 2,that would give us the best chance of getting French tv and sponsors on board.

 

2. In 5 or 6 years time we could either reintroduce heartland clubs,or better still,we could look at another London franchise,giving us 2 clubs in the capital or franchises from other parts of the uk

 

If Superleague has owners who put in around £7M or whatever a year, and if SKY put in £18M or whatever a year and if at the end of that a 14 club league are still several £million a year short on funds then as everyone seems to agree on here when SL clubs go bust, they should cut their cloth.

 

But doing that leads to clubs demise as they can't compete for the players and poor results see crowds drop. Therefore a cut to 10 clubs reduces costs and increases income. It's a no brainer. SL chairmen know this that's why they are dropping to 12 as a start. RFL know this that's why IMHO they are effectively dropping to an 8 club Superleague.

 

There is no growth model I can see that would allow the re-introduction of dying heartland clubs, let alone two London clubs, or "franchises" around the UK.

 

IMHO The facts, the figures, the events, the logic, the reasoning all point to consolidating the Elite division whether at 12 clubs, 10 or 8 clubs (dressed up as  something new and exciting) but nowhere down the line will ever be the growth you suggest unless SKY suddenly decide to add £Millions to the contract or the "take" from private investors goes up by several £Millions.

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yeah great.....what about the rest of the clubs in this country????

 

Well how about sharing the SKY money 37 ways (500K) asking the millionaires to share their input 37 ways (£200K) and pooling all gate receipts and sharing them back out (500K).Then we could run on a salary cap of £500K a club until SKY pull the plug and the £Millionaires walk. Then we drop to a salary cap of £250K. One big happy Championship.

 

Best I can do for you Spuddy.

Edited by The Parksider
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Wigan,Sts and leeds are your unis,Warrington want to be there,i cant think or another club thats anywhere near that.

Yep DR is an answer,i actually joined this forum to fightv against DR but when enough clubs and fans think its the right way to go then the argument is lost.

The amateures are now talking about using Pro players.

Like it or nor things are changing.

I just wish they would be open and honest about it.

Wigan.

Wire.

Saints.

London.

Hull.

Leeds.

Giants?.

3French clubs.

Strengthen the European league and strengthen the domestic league at the same time

I would go with that. Maybe replace Huddersfield with another French or a second London team.

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I would go with that. Maybe replace Huddersfield with another French or a second London team.

Or maybe keep the Giants spot for a merged Pennine club.  :ph34r:

What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you.

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If Superleague has owners who put in around £7M or whatever a year, and if SKY put in £18M or whatever a year and if at the end of that a 14 club league are still several £million a year short on funds then as everyone seems to agree on here when SL clubs go bust, they should cut their cloth.

 

But doing that leads to clubs demise as they can't compete for the players and poor results see crowds drop. Therefore a cut to 10 clubs reduces costs and increases income. It's a no brainer. SL chairmen know this that's why they are dropping to 12 as a start. RFL know this that's why IMHO they are effectively dropping to an 8 club Superleague.t

 

There is no growth model I can see that would allow the re-introduction of dying heartland clubs, let alone two London clubs, or "franchises" around the UK.

 

IMHO The facts, the figures, the events, the logic, the reasoning all point to consolidating the Elite division whether at 12 clubs, 10 or 8 clubs (dressed up as  something new and exciting) but nowhere down the line will ever be the growth you suggest unless SKY suddenly decide to add £Millions to the contract or the "take" from private investors goes up by several £Millions.

 

There is domination by the gang of four or five now. The other teams cannot compete and lose money trying to do so. If, after years of trying without success to keep up with the Jones and teetering on the edge of bankruptcy as a result, I cannot see why they cannot get the same results by cutting costs until they are sustainable and thus insolvency would not always be just around the corner.

 

Fans are not walking, except at the Broncos, with their current unsuccessful scenarios so why should operating on a sustainable budget change anything in that regard.

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There is domination by the gang of four or five now. The other teams cannot compete and lose money trying to do so. If, after years of trying without success to keep up with the Jones and teetering on the edge of bankruptcy as a result, I cannot see why they cannot get the same results by cutting costs until they are sustainable and thus insolvency would not always be just around the corner.Fans are not walking so why should operating on a sustainable budget change anything in that regard.

At HKR Mr. Hudgell said he did not want to be putting in £500K a year of his and Mr. Crosslands own money so the answer is they are dropping budgets. At Castleford it was reported mr. Fulton could put no more in and that the club was loaded with private debt. It was reported if the directors took back all owed there'd be no club. This is why they have to sell players Rangi Chase being a big loss. Bradford are dropping their playing budget as are wakefield to stay solvent.

Do you really think crowds at these clubs will hold up under low playing budgets with the top eight clubs picking off anyone they want which they do more and more as their own stars leave for the NRL?

IMHO you've loked at the situation the last year or so, IMHO the directors of the smaller SL clubs are looking to the future and 2x12=3x8 may be a plan to accomodate six SL clubs on low playing budgets.

Edited by The Parksider
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french inclusion in any semi-pro league has proved disasterous and unworkable - it has to be like the Catalans, SL and full-time or nothing with long term guarantees of SL participation say, five years minimum - i'm not saying this is a good idea but I think we need to be realistic

 

You might be right but IF p and r returns, it can't be a double standards thing. It can't have 13 teams in danger of relegation if they finish bottom and one exempt. That just flies in the face of fairness. The fans won't stand for it for long.

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