Canadian team apply to join Championship 1 (merged threads)

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Ha ha, not quite, you've missunderstood me!

These were my suggested criteria for entry to Superleague.

They would clearly have to get promoted to the championship first and play the likes of Bradford, Fev, Fax, Leigh etc.

Its not inconceivable that a top team in the Championship hoping to gain promotion to Superleague could pull 5,000.

If they can't achieve this (or close to this figure) then maybe they (or any other team aspiring to Superleague) are not up to scratch!

How many Championship clubs have achieved 5,000 before being promoted?

Again, there are clubs in the Super League that can't attract that. To put it as criteria fit the league below is laughable.

[kiwis 13 6]

CC1 shall now be called nigel woods flying circus, fool or visionary genius? both or neither? time will tell. To the candians i'd say do you really want to fly to uk to play in front of 300 peple in a league not even televised? Spend your money how you want but investing in local canadian game and getting more opposition for canadian national side is my suggestion. you could get nz residents, nz maori, island nations residents side, nsw country, queensland residents, australian affiliated states, serbia, italy etc to tour and test your strength.

[Adelaide Tiger]

CC1 shall now be called nigel woods flying circus, fool or visionary genius? both or neither? time will tell. To the candians i'd say do you really want to fly to uk to play in front of 300 peple in a league not even televised? Spend your money how you want but investing in local canadian game and getting more opposition for canadian national side is my suggestion. you could get nz residents, nz maori, island nations residents side, nsw country, queensland residents, australian affiliated states, serbia, italy etc to tour and test your strength.

Why can't all those international rep teams you have mentioned still play the canadian national team if there is a Toronto based team in the CL1.

As a Kiwi, did you poo-poo the idea of the Warriors joining the NRL? Would you have rather had the sponsors that supported the Warriors bid plough their money into a domestic comp? Would you have advocated that the above rep teams visit NZ to play the Kiwis?

[Adelaide Tiger]

If the money and playing standard was there I'd support it for a SL club. But I'm very opposed to it at League 1 level

Why?

Thank God the Canadians are approaching this in a realistic way and not beating their chests and shouting let us into SL! They recognise their strength on field and are choosing a league that they hopefully can be competitive in with no threat of relegation and build a good foundation. Jesus, imagine the field day the moaners on here would have if the Canadians were wanting to join the SL.

As for your comment that part time players should not play on another continent you are doing a big misservice to all those part time athletes across many sports that represent their country - and whisper this quietly, they sometimes have to travel abroad by plane and take time off work and sometimes this is at their own cost ....... eeeeeeeekkkk! In this instance the Canadians are footing the bill and once, ONCE, that is between nought and twice, players will need 3/4 days leave.

I may be a bit of a luddite but i do believe that the RFL actually produce a fixture list so players will have beteen 3 to 6 months notice to organise leave.

Also, i am pig sick of hearing how RU offers players a chance to see the world whilst us in RL never venture out of our hamlets. Well think of the boost this type of away fixture gives clubs at this level to recruit other players.

[kiwis 13 6]

Why can't all those international rep teams you have mentioned still play the canadian national team if there is a Toronto based team in the CL1.

As a Kiwi, did you poo-poo the idea of the Warriors joining the NRL? Would you have rather had the sponsors that supported the Warriors bid plough their money into a domestic comp? Would you have advocated that the above rep teams visit NZ to play the Kiwis?

to answer your question because all the best Canadian players would be involved in meeting the CC1 commitments leaving no space for internationals during the CC1 season.

 

Yes the warriors have some good side effects for league in NZ, NRL pathway locally, Kiwis sides rise in standards, top level NRL every other week in Auckland.

 

The bad side of warriors in the NRL for NZ is $30 million/year goes to NRL from NZ in TV rights, NZ Merchandise sales, Auckland 9's staging rights. A privately owned company runs the warriors gets back $8 million in a club grant that every NRL team gets... Basically NRL cream multi millions outta NZ giving back only what it has to every club in the comp. Warriors do not run rugby league the NZRL does on there cut of test match profits, government sport funding and sponsorship with no assistance by NRL despite the millions it makes out of NZ.  NZ domestic scene was shot after the warriors came along, Auckland is now the only place an elite local domestic player can make a bit of cash out of the game! There is a poorly organised end of season National rep season the NZRL premiership and no games scheduled for NZ residents sides... they only picked a paper one this year after i sent NZRL an email asking why no longer had one and no games were scheduled for them! To be fair to NZRL they work within a tight budget, dont have the funding, personnel or brains at present to properly run a national end of season rep comp well or select, organise and fund Nz residents teams. As just about all available NZRL money, focus and thought goes on KIwi's national side there only money spinner and youth programs... everything else is an after thought at present  

 

Anyway back to Canada personally like to suggest they look into setting up a semi pro North American comp between CRL and USARL of 8 sides... would be CC1 standard within 3-5 years not to mention the league world needs another semi pro comp in big new market... but good luck to them whatever the case maybe 

[bowes]

Why can't all those international rep teams you have mentioned still play the canadian national team if there is a Toronto based team in the CL1.

As a Kiwi, did you poo-poo the idea of the Warriors joining the NRL? Would you have rather had the sponsors that supported the Warriors bid plough their money into a domestic comp? Would you have advocated that the above rep teams visit NZ to play the Kiwis?

The idea isn't equivalent to NZ Warriors joining the NRL. It's equivalent to Tokyo Warriors joining the Sydney Shield

[iangidds]

Why?

Thank God the Canadians are approaching this in a realistic way and not beating their chests and shouting let us into SL! They recognise their strength on field and are choosing a league that they hopefully can be competitive in with no threat of relegation and build a good foundation. Jesus, imagine the field day the moaners on here would have if the Canadians were wanting to join the SL.

As for your comment that part time players should not play on another continent you are doing a big misservice to all those part time athletes across many sports that represent their country - and whisper this quietly, they sometimes have to travel abroad by plane and take time off work and sometimes this is at their own cost ....... eeeeeeeekkkk! In this instance the Canadians are footing the bill and once, ONCE, that is between nought and twice, players will need 3/4 days leave.

I may be a bit of a luddite but i do believe that the RFL actually produce a fixture list so players will have beteen 3 to 6 months notice to organise leave.

Also, i am pig sick of hearing how RU offers players a chance to see the world whilst us in RL never venture out of our hamlets. Well think of the boost this type of away fixture gives clubs at this level to recruit other players.

Great great post, sums up all I wanted to say! If we could we wind back the clock to when most of us could play the game would we really say " travel to Canada to play Rl! No thanks" for gods sake lets embrace any positives we can and put our efforts into supportinng such brave ventures.

[scotchy]

Ha ha, not quite, you've missunderstood me!

These were my suggested criteria for entry to Superleague.

They would clearly have to get promoted to the championship first and play the likes of Bradford, Fev, Fax, Leigh etc.

Its not inconceivable that a top team in the Championship hoping to gain promotion to Superleague could pull 5,000.

If they can't achieve this (or close to this figure) then maybe they (or any other team aspiring to Superleague) are not up to scratch!

but why apply only those criteria to them and not everyone else? Doesn't seem fair

[scotchy]

Why?

Thank God the Canadians are approaching this in a realistic way and not beating their chests and shouting let us into SL! They recognise their strength on field and are choosing a league that they hopefully can be competitive in with no threat of relegation and build a good foundation. Jesus, imagine the field day the moaners on here would have if the Canadians were wanting to join the SL.

As for your comment that part time players should not play on another continent you are doing a big misservice to all those part time athletes across many sports that represent their country - and whisper this quietly, they sometimes have to travel abroad by plane and take time off work and sometimes this is at their own cost ....... eeeeeeeekkkk! In this instance the Canadians are footing the bill and once, ONCE, that is between nought and twice, players will need 3/4 days leave.

I may be a bit of a luddite but i do believe that the RFL actually produce a fixture list so players will have beteen 3 to 6 months notice to organise leave.

Also, i am pig sick of hearing how RU offers players a chance to see the world whilst us in RL never venture out of our hamlets. Well think of the boost this type of away fixture gives clubs at this level to recruit other players.

what do they do about play offs? Cup games? How are THEIR players supposed to be part time? And if their players are going to be full time aren't are we seeing the complete disaster putting full time sides in a part time league happening in the championship? Why do we want to export that to league 1?

They would have been far better been given an SL place in 5 years time and putting an academy side in the SL academy.

[Copa]

I will definitely buy one of their jerseys..

[Henson Park Old Firm]

I will definitely buy one of their jerseys..

make that 2... hope the kit has a traditional chevron

[Rob]

but why apply only those criteria to them and not everyone else? Doesn't seem fair

 

For a start, there are huge additional costs associated with a team from another continent.

 

If they are not offering something special, with strong commercial support, good public support, then why allow them entry in the first place? Might as well push a team up from the British leagues instead.

 

If a team from abroad is allowed entry into Superleague, there needs to be entry criteria.  The further away that team is, and the greater the costs associated with that team, then that particular team needs to be offering much more potential than than (say) promoting an existing League 1 team.

 

I don't think the entry criteria for Superleague needs to be the same for all applicants.  Each needs to be judged on its own merits.

[Rob]

what do they do about play offs? Cup games? How are THEIR players supposed to be part time? And if their players are going to be full time aren't are we seeing the complete disaster putting full time sides in a part time league happening in the championship? Why do we want to export that to league 1?

They would have been far better been given an SL place in 5 years time and putting an academy side in the SL academy.

 

I understand there is a salary cap in league 1.  But is there a *requirement* for players to be part time?

 

We already have full time players vs part time players in the league above!

[scotchy]

For a start, there are huge additional costs associated with a team from another continent.

If they are not offering something special, with strong commercial support, good public support, then why allow them entry in the first place? Might as well push a team up from the British leagues instead.

If a team from abroad is allowed entry into Superleague, there needs to be entry criteria. The further away that team is, and the greater the costs associated with that team, then that particular team needs to be offering much more potential than than (say) promoting an existing League 1 team.

I don't think the entry criteria for Superleague needs to be the same for all applicants. Each needs to be judged on its own merits.

the potential for a Canadian team is obviously HUGE compared to another Yorkshire or Lancashire side.

Your Outlook is very northern centric. It has a very northern outlook. Featherstone is abroad to a Les Catalans fan and Leigh is just as far away from Toronto as Toronto is from Leigh.

I agree that clubs should prove their worth on their own merit. I just disagree that being a couple of miles from existing clubs is a tick in the for column and not the against column

[scotchy]

I understand there is a salary cap in league 1. But is there a *requirement* for players to be part time?

We already have full time players vs part time players in the league above!

and it's not working very well in the championship is it.

I don't think there is a requirement for them to be part time but it's nigh on impossible for them to split full time wages between 25 players under that cap. 25 players earning 20k each is 500k

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Lets just see what happens... this is rugby league rememeber

[irishfan]

Toronto-based rugby league team in talks to join England’s League 1. Link:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/07/toronto-rugby-league-team-talks-join-england-league-1-Canada

[Rob]

the potential for a Canadian team is obviously HUGE compared to another Yorkshire or Lancashire side.

Your Outlook is very northern centric. It has a very northern outlook. Featherstone is abroad to a Les Catalans fan and Leigh is just as far away from Toronto as Toronto is from Leigh.

I agree that clubs should prove their worth on their own merit. I just disagree that being a couple of miles from existing clubs is a tick in the for column and not the against column

 

1) Agreed

 

2) I hope my outlook isn't northern centric, I'd love to see the Canadian team playing over here and hopefully rise all the way to Superleague.  My point is that for entry into superleague, then they (or any team) needs to be offering something valuable to the league.  The Canadians are showing indications they could potentially offer great additional value to the league.  But these minimum standards are all the more important for teams based a long way away.  There is no point allowing entry to a team with minuscule support, commercially or from fans, based in another continent.  We already have plenty of these in the UK.  Hopefully this will not be the case and they will build their support and the UK league will be clamouring to get them in Superleague, and not the other way round.

 

3) Agreed

[TheReaper]

Where on earth is the money coming from? Who in Toronto cares this much about rugby league? I come up with over $650 000 just to cover the cost of the English teams coming over and the £200 000 sponsorship. Over a million by the time you pay the Canadian players wages and travel costs.

[scotchy]

1) Agreed

 

2) I hope my outlook isn't northern centric, I'd love to see the Canadian team playing over here and hopefully rise all the way to Superleague.  My point is that for entry into superleague, then they (or any team) needs to be offering something valuable to the league.  The Canadians are showing indications they could potentially offer great additional value to the league.  But these minimum standards are all the more important for teams based a long way away.  There is no point allowing entry to a team with minuscule support, commercially or from fans, based in another continent.  We already have plenty of these in the UK.  Hopefully this will not be the case and they will build their support and the UK league will be clamouring to get them in Superleague, and not the other way round.

 

3) Agreed

i dont disagree with most of that. Maybe I read too much in to your phrasing so im not saying you are one of them, but there are people who take an attitude that this is our game and others need to prove themselves to be allowed in. I take the opposite view and look at something like Toronto and see huge potential so rather than put in place hurdles they should be helped and nurtured.

 

For instance, you say there is no point allowing entry to a team with miniscule support, commercially or from fans from another continent. I see that its almost certain that we will start there. I know the myth of Les Catalans gets rewritten so that they were and always are a heartland side that everyone was in favour of and knew they would be a success, but prior to a plan and pathway to SL Les Catalans were 2 small clubs with fan bases in the hundreds/low thousands, playing in poor facilities, with little money and little strength. From their, through their pathway in to SL, through their guarantee of playing in it they have built one of the biggest and financially strongest clubs in SL.

 

I think the idea that Toronto (for instance, but any expansion side) is going to enter SL all guns blazing with 20k fans, 15 home grown players, and millions in sponsorship is way too harsh. I would even wonder HOW we would expect they could be even equal to a heartland side at the point they enter.

[Rob]

Where on earth is the money coming from? Who in Toronto cares this much about rugby league? I come up with over $650 000 just to cover the cost of the English teams coming over and the £200 000 sponsorship. Over a million by the time you pay the Canadian players wages and travel costs.

 

If you read around the articles written about Canadian RL, even though the standard may not be high, off the field they already boast an impressive array of sponsors and nationwide TV exposure.  It appears they have more commercial money than the clubs in the UK's Championship 1 and possible some championship clubs too.

 

With regards to who cares about RL in Toronto, it appears more people care about it there than for example in Hunslet, Swinton, Oldham and a whole host of other 'traditional' RL strongholds.

 

Its not 'our' money and we can't tell them what to do with it.  We can, however allow them to spend it in our league.

[Adelaide Tiger]

The idea isn't equivalent to NZ Warriors joining the NRL. It's equivalent to Tokyo Warriors joining the Sydney Shield

How about quoting PNG joining the Queensland Cup.

[TheReaper]

Yes they have the TV show, but I was at the first two rounds of the Ontario league and it was your typical "other players and girlfriends" crowd. They play at nice fields and dues are low, so there's money but I don't know about fan support.

[kiwis 13 6]

if this toronto bid fails to be accepted in CC1 & they are still looking for a 3rd tier semi pro comp to join, they can always apply to join aucklands fox memorial club competition unlike CC1 its a comp that has some tv coverage in NZ on Maori TV and Australia thru NITV... the fox memorial is every NRL applicants 1st step in there NRL dream just look how it worked out for the Mount Albert warriors

 

[bowes]

How about quoting PNG joining the Queensland Cup.

Because that is not even close. PNG joining Queensland Cup is more like Toulouse joining the Championship