Canadian team apply to join Championship 1 (merged threads)

[Adelaide Tiger]

what do they do about play offs? Cup games? How are THEIR players supposed to be part time? And if their players are going to be full time aren't are we seeing the complete disaster putting full time sides in a part time league happening in the championship? Why do we want to export that to league 1?

They would have been far better been given an SL place in 5 years time and putting an academy side in the SL academy.

I have no idea about the play offs/cup games so i will wait till the top brass put forward any proposal.

The part time/full time argument - I introduction of The SP Hunters into the Qld Intrust Cup has been of great benefit to the standard of PNG and further raising the interest of the game at both domestic and inetrnational level. At present there is no salary cap in the Intrust Cup so PNG were able to have a full time squad where players lived and trained together. The other teams have part-time players. This arrangement has worked and given SP Hunters the opportunity to bring their best players together to develop their ability and to give them a pathway to bettering themselves in the NRL/SL.

Now I will ruffle some feathers. What is the role of CL1? Is it -

A. To welcome new clubs into the fold with a low salary cap to provide an even playing field, or,

B. the above, BUT is flexible enough to recognise if a new club with limited playing ability can demonstrate it can pay for a full time squad then embrace the new team.

I prefer B, especially if long term we are looking to encourage teams from Scotland, Ireland and possibly continental Europe.

Take the example of Aberdeen Warriors. If they want to join CL1 some people would insist that the club remains part time due to the SC. The same people would condone the club with part time players travelling up to 9/10 hours to get to Gloucester, Hemel, Oxford, London but complain that a flight of the same length to Toronto, once per year, is not appropriate.

So what will happen if a benefactor wants to put money into a full time squad at Aberdeen. Do we as a game say 'sod off you can only spend X amount' which makes the benefactor walk away shaking his head or do we say 'Yes, a full time club in Scotland would be a tremendous boost to the game, and based on the players ability the CL1 is a great league in which to develop the club'.

It is absolutely ludicrous for posters on here to say that any new club with money but players with limited ability/new to the game should start in the SL and get smashed because we are not flexible enough to start them in the right league.

[bowes]

Why do you want to kill the game's fledgling southern development so much? Why should the salary cap apply to Keighley but not Toronto?

[Krytensmate]

The salary cap issue in the lower tier needs looking at , we have seen what can happen in the past with the Celtic Crusaders ( a full time team on a SC of £ 150 K , seriously ) , but what we cannot allow is anything to be done ' sectretly ' , if we are to have excemptions then they must be out in the open

[damp squib]

Why do you want to kill the game's fledgling southern development so much? Why should the salary cap apply to Keighley but not Toronto?

 

You keep bringing this point up but it has been clearly and repeatedly stated in every news item about this project that it will be entirely funded by Toronto. In fact they are also willing to put in an extra £200,000 in sponsorship so how can this in any way harm southern developement? I think the publicity of Toronto's entry would be an enormous boon to the southern expansion teams as remember they are trying to win over a public that is unfamiliar with RL. Imagine you live in Coventry and are ignorant of RL - if you see a poster advertising Coventry Bears Vs Toronto RL there's a far higher chance that you'll attend a game out of curiosity than if it were Coventry Bears vs Swinton or Barrow etc. (no disrespect intended). A fixture like that would surely attract the local media as well. Just to clarify, I don't think this will actually happen, but objections based on the idea that somehow CC1 teams would be harmed by Toronto's entry are nonsensical.

 

My question is if there are currently 14 teams in CC1, is the league going to be expanded to 15/16 (with Toulouse)?

[bowes]

You keep bringing this point up but it has been clearly and repeatedly stated in every news item about this project that it will be entirely funded by Toronto. In fact they are also willing to put in an extra £200,000 in sponsorship so how can this in any way harm southern developement? I think the publicity of Toronto's entry would be an enormous boon to the southern expansion teams as remember they are trying to win over a public that is unfamiliar with RL. Imagine you live in Coventry and are ignorant of RL - if you see a poster advertising Coventry Bears Vs Toronto RL there's a far higher chance that you'll attend a game out of curiosity than if it were Coventry Bears vs Swinton or Barrow etc. (no disrespect intended). A fixture like that would surely attract the local media as well. Just to clarify, I don't think this will actually happen, but objections based on the idea that somehow CC1 teams would be harmed by Toronto's entry are nonsensical.

 

My question is if there are currently 14 teams in CC1, is the league going to be expanded to 15/16 (with Toulouse)?

They are planning to expand the league to 16 but that will soon drop down with the pressures of playing in a travelling circus. Already there's a chasm between northern and southern teams in playing standards (with the partial exceptions of Coventry and Gloucestershire). If soccer wanted to put a Canadian team in Conference North they'd be mocked and so it will be with Toronto

[damp squib]

But there would be no reason for a Canadian soccer team to enter an English league as there is already a professional North American soccer competition. This doesn't exist in RL.

[scotchy]

But there would be no reason for a Canadian soccer team to enter an English league as there is already a professional North American soccer competition. This doesn't exist in RL.

nor will it by putting them in league 1.

[damp squib]

They will have the oppertunity to enter a fully proffessional league in a few years. Given the experience of TOXIII it is probably a better strategy to get in early wherever they can rather than expecting the RFL to show initiative and ambition and enter them at a higher level.

[RidingPie]

While many will disagree I think their suggestion is the best one they could have come up with! Give them a year at least between the decision being made and the club entering the competition (like happened with Catalans) so they can prepare and get things in to place, send the Grand Final winners, or one of the other top teams across to run a training camp and a trial match pre-season. Let them grow organically from there. Hopefully if the idea and the team is successful, a successful league will grow in Canada which will feed players in to the club.

 

If they are willing to cover the cost for all the CC1 teams and more, by sponsoring the league as they suggest, I really can't see the problem.

[DeadShotKeen]

Does anyone else see the irony in this story emerging not long after we've bailed on licensing and replaced a modern, forward-thinking RFL administration with a bumbling, traditional, old-fashioned one? It's a positive story at its root and great that RL is doing well in Canada but this is yet another example of the sport in the UK shooting itself in the foot and being well behind the curve, sadly.

 

I would give this a chance in a proper franchised SL but in a lower tier? Hmm. You're trying to sell a new sport in a very competitive market so the very least you'd want would be our best teams (Leeds, Saints, Wigan) going over there to promote the sport. Instead they'll get Dewsbury, Barrow, Leigh etc. - not a terrible standard but hardly the "razzle dazzle" you would want or major draws in such a big city as Toronto. It could easily be more damaging than leaving them to develop the sport alone.

 

Look - this is a sport that chased a club in its own capital out of the top flight. How realistically can we expect this level of expansion to get off the ground or even for there to be anywhere near the amount of goodwill required for the new team to thrive?

 

Furthermore I would say to those behind this bid - good luck but you have no idea how small-minded and incompetent we are or the level of fanbase antipathy you are opening yourselves up to. You're not going to be made to feel very welcome and should really be looking to get Dave Smith and the NRL on the phone instead.

 

In the name of God get this shambles of an RFL out and let's get our newly installed leaders sitting down with these guys and getting their heads together. A franchised elite league and this kind of development is just a little bit of imagination away. But within the current structure? Sadly not a chance.

[RidingPie]

Does anyone else see the irony in this story emerging not long after we've bailed on licensing and replaced a modern, forward-thinking RFL administration with a bumbling, traditional, old-fashioned one? It's a positive story at its root and great that RL is doing well in Canada but this is yet another example of the sport in the UK shooting itself in the foot and being well behind the curve, sadly.

 

I would give this a chance in a proper franchised SL but in a lower tier? Hmm. You're trying to sell a new sport in a very competitive market so the very least you'd want would be our best teams (Leeds, Saints, Wigan) going over there to promote the sport. Instead they'll get Dewsbury, Barrow, Leigh etc. - not a terrible standard but hardly the "razzle dazzle" you would want or major draws in such a big city as Toronto. It could easily be more damaging than leaving them to develop the sport alone.

 

Look - this is a sport that chased a club in its own capital out of the top flight. How realistically can we expect this level of expansion to get off the ground or even for there to be anywhere near the amount of goodwill required for the new team to thrive?

 

Furthermore I would say to those behind this bid - good luck but you have no idea how small-minded and incompetent we are or the level of fanbase antipathy you are opening yourselves up to. You're not going to be made to feel very welcome and should really be looking to get Dave Smith and the NRL on the phone instead.

 

In the name of God get this shambles of an RFL out and let's get our newly installed leaders sitting down with these guys and getting their heads together. A franchised elite league and this kind of development is just a little bit of imagination away. But within the current structure? Sadly not a chance.

 

I agree wholeheartedly! Some on here would faint from the idea!

[JonM]

 You're trying to sell a new sport in a very competitive market so the very least you'd want would be our best teams (Leeds, Saints, Wigan) going over there to promote the sport. Instead they'll get Dewsbury, Barrow, Leigh etc. - not a terrible standard but hardly the "razzle dazzle" you would want or major draws in such a big city as Toronto.

 

You're right of course, but I suspect the average Canadian has never heard of St. Helens or Wigan, or indeed most other places in SL. They probably have heard of London, Oxford or Newcastle though and maybe Sheffield, Coventry & South Wales/North Wales and may even associate Wales with rugby.

 

Also, entry into C1 lets them proceed with a team of Canadians. I don't think that's an option for SL. A team of Canadians playing for Toronto against London and winning sounds like an easier sell than Toronto getting stuffed 80-0, or a bunch of englishmen called Toronto against a bunch of englishmen from someplace no-one's heard of. 

[Krytensmate]

Does anyone else see the irony in this story emerging not long after we've bailed on licensing and replaced a modern, forward-thinking RFL administration with a bumbling, traditional, old-fashioned one? It's a positive story at its root and great that RL is doing well in Canada but this is yet another example of the sport in the UK shooting itself in the foot and being well behind the curve, sadly.

I would give this a chance in a proper franchised SL but in a lower tier? Hmm. You're trying to sell a new sport in a very competitive market so the very least you'd want would be our best teams (Leeds, Saints, Wigan) going over there to promote the sport. Instead they'll get Dewsbury, Barrow, Leigh etc. - not a terrible standard but hardly the "razzle dazzle" you would want or major draws in such a big city as Toronto. It could easily be more damaging than leaving them to develop the sport alone.

Look - this is a sport that chased a club in its own capital out of the top flight. How realistically can we expect this level of expansion to get off the ground or even for there to be anywhere near the amount of goodwill required for the new team to thrive?

Furthermore I would say to those behind this bid - good luck but you have no idea how small-minded and incompetent we are or the level of fanbase antipathy you are opening yourselves up to. You're not going to be made to feel very welcome and should really be looking to get Dave Smith and the NRL on the phone instead.

In the name of God get this shambles of an RFL out and let's get our newly installed leaders sitting down with these guys and getting their heads together. A franchised elite league and this kind of development is just a little bit of imagination away. But within the current structure? Sadly not a chance.

How exactly were London ' chased ' away ?

[bowes]

How exactly were London ' chased ' away ?

Their lack of fans chased them away if anything

[Odsal Outlaw]

Why do you want to kill the game's fledgling southern development so much? Why should the salary cap apply to Keighley but not Toronto?

Again, can't see how this harms Southern RL, it may even help the profile in the South.

[damp squib]

You're right of course, but I suspect the average Canadian has never heard of St. Helens or Wigan, or indeed most other places in SL. They probably have heard of London, Oxford or Newcastle though and maybe Sheffield, Coventry & South Wales/North Wales and may even associate Wales with rugby.

 

Also, entry into C1 lets them proceed with a team of Canadians. I don't think that's an option for SL. A team of Canadians playing for Toronto against London and winning sounds like an easier sell than Toronto getting stuffed 80-0, or a bunch of englishmen called Toronto against a bunch of englishmen from someplace no-one's heard of. 

 

I don't think a lack of Canadians in the squad would be as big a deal as it would in English teams. Canadians are used to franchised sport where the team doesn't necessarily have deep roots in the community. One or two local lads would be enough to get their attention.

[Adelaide Tiger]

Why do you want to kill the game's fledgling southern development so much? Why should the salary cap apply to Keighley but not Toronto?

Please explain why my post would kill southern development because I haven"t a clue as to how you arrive at that conclusion.

Why should the salary cap apply to Keighley and not Toronto? Are you serious? You have moaned about part time players in the UK having to take time off once per year to travel to Toronto but you appear to want part time players to travel to the UK a number if times a year.

Clubs like Keighley, Oldham, Swinton and York have struggled for years yet you expect a new venture which purports to have backers that will fund a new team and pay expenses for visiting teams to fall in line ith a SC that is in place to protect the above clubs from years of rank bad management. Wow, that is an ideal recipe to encourage backers of big city clubs! Why not insist that any new club can only play out of a dilapidated stadium and limit crowds to 250!

I understand that you are against the Toronto bid but for future expansion the game has to look at each new application on its own merits and give it the best chance to succeed.

[bowes]

I suppose you want to let Toronto play with 15 players whilst they're at it?

What's the point of having a rigged league? If Keighley can afford to pay more they should have as much right to as Toronto, regardless of your disgusting arrogant views towards them. If you want clubs to be allowed to spend more you should be arguing for a salary cap based on a percentage of turnover, not arguing for clubs to be banned from spending on players purely to rig the league in Toronto's favour.

If you hadn't noticed the likes of South Wales Scorpions hardly manage the trip to Barrow so travelling to another continent to get slaughtered by full time professionals could quite easily be the final nail in the coffin.

I think Toronto should play in the South Australia league and get salary cap exemptions instead

[The Parksider]

Look - this is a sport that chased a club in its own capital out of the top flight. How realistically can we expect this level of expansion to get off the ground or even for there to be anywhere near the amount of goodwill required for the new team to thrive?

 

Furthermore I would say to those behind this bid - good luck but you have no idea how small-minded and incompetent we are or the level of fanbase antipathy you are opening yourselves up to. You're not going to be made to feel very welcome and should really be looking to get Dave Smith and the NRL on the phone instead.

 

In the name of God get this shambles of an RFL out and let's get our newly installed leaders sitting down with these guys and getting their heads together. A franchised elite league and this kind of development is just a little bit of imagination away. But within the current structure? Sadly not a chance.

 

A gem of a post for me that Keeny.

 

It's definitely time to try anything......

[The Parksider]

Their lack of fans chased them away if anything

 

London never lacked fans. You can find some big crowds in their history when they were a good side playing out fixtures against attractive clubs.

 

10K against Paris, 10K against Wigan 10K against Brisbane Broncos.

 

Our tiny minded game chased them away salary capping them the same as the M62 mob when the M62 mob knew London would suffer from not being an M62 club all of whom are in the middle of the games major playing pool, and London being 200 miles away only having a fledgling local game.

 

If a British sport isn't interested in having a London presence then it's a tiny minded sport.

[The Parksider]

Why do you want to kill the game's fledgling southern development so much? 

 

With the deepest of respect to a fine fellow with a great love for the game, and a fabulous knowledge of said game, I would suggest to you that the intense struggle that has been trying to get it played outside the M62 on a "bottom up" basis is not really "development".

 

The years go by and there is far more "struggle" and "survival" attached to our fine southern clubs than "development".

[winnyason]

It's Been reported in french national leqiupe that's toulouse will join league one also.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/nrl/png-hunters-appeal-to-qrl-following-fears-for-financial-future/story-fndv2us0-1227348563501

[kiwis 13 6]

Eureka the obvious solution to all global development put Toronto, Toulouse, Fiji & the Hunters in 4th tier PNG domestic semi pro comp the aptly named BEMOBILE cup... now pass me some beetle nut i want get high and boost juice aint doing it for me no more   

[Adelaide Tiger]

I suppose you want to let Toronto play with 15 players whilst they're at it?

Adelaide Tigurrrr - no, I assume the RFL will insist they only have 13 on the pitch at any one time.

What's the point of having a rigged league?

Adelaide Tigurrrr - what you call a 'rigged league' is to me a development league that provides the opportunity for new and existing clubs to attract businessmen with money to build a club based on the strength if their squad.

If Keighley can afford to pay more they should have as much right to as Toronto, regardless of your disgusting arrogant views towards them.

Adelaide Tigurrrr - As above. If tomorrow Keighley/ Toulouse/York/Bristol etc. attracted a multi millionaire backer who could fund a full time squad and bring in some better players I would fully support their request to fund above the SC. From your comments you would be against this.

If you want clubs to be allowed to spend more you should be arguing for a salary cap based on a percentage of turnover, not arguing for clubs to be banned from spending on players purely to rig the league in Toronto's favour.

Adelaide Tigurrrr - I support the percentage of turnover argument. Would Keighley, York, Swinton, Oldham be able to spend above the existing SC if it was based on percentage of turnover? If so, excellent. If not, why should a club that has attracted backers with money be penalised.

If you hadn't noticed the likes of South Wales Scorpions hardly manage the trip to Barrow so travelling to another continent to get slaughtered by full time professionals could quite easily be the final nail in the coffin.

Adelaide Tigurrrr- what were the problems for the Scorpions?

Cost - well there would be no cost to the club for them to travel to Toronto direct from Cardiff

Time - its about 5 hours to Barrow, and 9 hours flying from Cardiff to Toronto

Lack of players - would more players be more excited by a fully paid trip to Toronto?

Nail in coffin -.no sport in the world can always guarantee a tight contest

I think Toronto should play in the South Australia league and get salary cap exemptions instead.

Adelaide Tigurrrr- Ah, you said clubs shouldn't play in a league on another continent but you advocate for Toronto to play in Australasia. Hmmmmm.