Salford Red Devils

[Celtic Rooster]

Soccer is not "booming" at all! Look at the crowds and number of Leagues now compared to 30/40 years ago. Soccer is suffering like every other sport because the younger generation don't want to exercise while they can sit in the warmth and play computer games, they just don't feel it so much - yet! Salford Red Devils is the topic though and I think I will be making only my third visit to the AJ Bell stadium this Sunday. Don't expect it to be much of a contest but as an Eccles resident I think I should support this game.

[kiyan]

The topic is salford.

Any reason you keep saying this just after you post something way off topic?

To me it appears Dr K is doing what all on this forum and others demanded for last couple of years: he is engaging the local community, he is engaging local schools, he is engaging local amateur teams, he is raising RL profile, he is putting his money where his mouth is. Just wondering what else the bloke can do to be acknowledged for the good he has done rather than the hate that seems to be sent his way on twitter especially from supposed RL fans.

[The Parksider]

Any reason you keep saying this just after you post something way off topic?

To me it appears Dr K is doing what all on this forum and others demanded for last couple of years: he is engaging the local community, he is engaging local schools, he is engaging local amateur teams, he is raising RL profile, he is putting his money where his mouth is. Just wondering what else the bloke can do to be acknowledged for the good he has done rather than the hate that seems to be sent his way on twitter especially from supposed RL fans.

 

Any reason you don't tackle those still taking it off topic.

 

Nice Public Relations piece but I'm asking those in the know like MMP & Mancunian what Dr. K can do for JARL against what he does do. I'm looking to find out if the good Doctor does go to the limit.

 

And if he does, is sending players to schools which has zero cost or claiming buying star players has an effect (which it does but still at zero additional cost) or talking up the game (zero cost) is going to the limit.

 

As for hate, if you think I hate anyone in this wonderful game and it's wonderful investors then your as way off topic as the pair above. Suggest you tackle them.

[RabbitRhinoovOZ]

I trust all RL people will get out in force to watch Salford V Swinton in support of the poor man who died trying to help out in the middle east. 

MK is a very decent man helping the family out like this and regardless of who you support people should make the effort to attend this game, It would be a very sad look for our sport if a poor crowd shows up.

[Red Willow]

I think only the main stand is open so a crowd of less than 4,000 is expected on Sunday.

 

I just don't se a time when RL will be big in the Salford/Manchester area.

[RabbitRhinoovOZ]

I think only the main stand is open so a crowd of less than 4,000 is expected on Sunday.

 

I just don't se a time when RL will be big in the Salford/Manchester area.

I really hope people prove this to be wrong seriously why is RL such a hard sell in Salford? I know they have 2 big soccer clubs but cant people in Manchester follow 2 sports?. They have a very good side in 2015 along with what looks to be a good RL ground and plenty of media attention and still seem not to be popular. You'd have to wonder what will happen to SRD if they do well this season and still only attract small crowds I personally cannot see MK hanging around if no one is interested and really would there be any point to proceed spending money if no one cares?

[Allora]

I really hope people prove this to be wrong seriously why is RL such a hard sell in Salford? I know they have 2 big soccer clubs but cant people in Manchester follow 2 sports?. They have a very good side in 2015 along with what looks to be a good RL ground and plenty of media attention and still seem not to be popular. You'd have to wonder what will happen to SRD if they do well this season and still only attract small crowds I personally cannot see MK hanging around if no one is interested and really would there be any point to proceed spending money if no one cares?

 

 

The same reason Rugby League fans in Sydney and Brisbane don't embrace Football or AFL I guess.

I am sure all Sports fans think their product is great and can not understand why the rest of the population do not embrace it.

Just my opinion.

[The Parksider]

I just don't se a time when RL will be big in the Salford/Manchester area.

 

 

I really hope people prove this to be wrong seriously why is RL such a hard sell in Salford? I know they have 2 big soccer clubs but cant people in Manchester follow 2 sports?. 

 

 

The same reason Rugby League fans in Sydney and Brisbane don't embrace Football or AFL I guess.

I am sure all Sports fans think their product is great and can not understand why the rest of the population do not embrace it.

 

Salford have not got near any trophy since around 1990, and they always seem to manage to lose more than they win. Crowds have been poor when they have been in relegation years, or when the club went bust.

 

Stability in SL has seen them on gates of around 5,000 and their only real "big game" the final match of the Willows, exceeded 10,000.

 

Rugby League isn't that "big" anywhere except where one obvious club has had  decades of regular success. In the SL era Salford when stable and competitive have been amongst the top ten best supported RL clubs in the northern hemisphere.

 

That they are in a massive twin city/conurbation may in one way work against them as such places spawn multi-premiership soccer clubs, but in another way the gigantic catchment area leaves Salford capable of attracting far better crowds than most.

 

Just sit back and wait and watch until Salford become regular top eight, and enjoy. Crowds should build. 

 

It's a niche market, we aren't big full stop, but nobody should go round measuring themselves against soccer. The useless Leeds United just got a near 30,000 crowd and can do that regularly for big games. I guess RL will never be big in Leeds.

 

Just my bang on topic opinion like.

[Celtic Rooster]

Support two sports RabbitRhinoofOZ? This is England People can't afford that!

[John Fisher]

I never claimed that no teams in franchised leagues have attendance problems. We were talking about "same old same old" and I was making the point that in those franchised leagues they've had numerous winners in the last 20 years (NRL has had like 9 different winners in the last 11 years I think) and it's very difficult to dominate long-term.

 

Soccer may be booming but they've had 5 winners of EPL in the last 20 years and 2 of those (Blackburn and Man City) only by virtue of the richest sugar daddy in the comp at that time. About 6 or 7 teams have played in Champions League in that period. Same old same old.

 

Soccer also doesn't need expansion, which has to go hand in hand with franchising. The alternative is what we hear in RL day in, day out: "I want London to do well but I don't want to see any favours given to them or any changes to our historical P&R system". In other words: "I don't want London to do well".

 

Have P&R all you want. Just don't bleat to me when the same teams sign all of the best players and win everything, whilst others run into financial ruin trying to keep up/buck the trend and the sport has absolutely no joy expanding into new areas. That's the P&R system. It's what it would be designed to achieve in the modern era were it designed to do anything at all, rather than simply being inherited from a previous era, which is actually how it got here.

and RU has had six different winners in the last nine years as well.

[Mr Wind Up]

The same reason Rugby League fans in Sydney and Brisbane don't embrace Football or AFL I guess.

I am sure all Sports fans think their product is great and can not understand why the rest of the population do not embrace it.

Just my opinion.

 

I've looked at the stats, and the AFL team in Sydney draws more people on average than any RL team (33,000). I'm not suggesting it's anywhere near as popular as RL in Sydney, but imagine Salford averaging more than Manchester United. Apart from AFL team GWS, the other two AFL and three football teams in Sydney/Brisbane all average above 14,000. 

[Allora]

I've looked at the stats, and the AFL team in Sydney draws more people on average than any RL team (33,000). I'm not suggesting it's anywhere near as popular as RL in Sydney, but imagine Salford averaging more than Manchester United. Apart from AFL team GWS, the other two AFL and three football teams in Sydney/Brisbane all average above 14,000. 

 

Not sure what your point is.

My point was NRL fans are unlikely to change codes and I doubt many Man United or Man City fans will take up League.

 

Sure Football gets its share of fans as there are many European immigrants, many second or third generation that call Sydney and Brisbane home, I guess there have been many fans of AFL that have joined the exodus to the northern states that still follow "their" game in Sydney or Brisbane.

 

 

 The Brisbane Broncos averaged 33,300 at home in 2014.

[Mr Wind Up]

Your point was that Sydney and Brisbane don't embrace other sports. My point was that, clearly, they do, especially when compared to the situation in Manchester. Where those people come from is completely irrelevant. 

[Allora]

Your point was that Sydney and Brisbane don't embrace other sports. My point was that, clearly, they do, especially when compared to the situation in Manchester. Where those people come from is completely irrelevant. 

I know what my point was, I don't need you to tell me what it was.

 

I said.

The same reason Rugby League fans in Sydney and Brisbane don't embrace Football or AFL I guess.

 

The fans that support AFL or Football in Sydney and Brisbane are fans of those sports, there are 4.5 million people in Sydney you know.

I doubt many NRL fans watch League one week and AFL the next week.

That was not my point.

Maybe I should have ignored your comments looking at your name.

[Mr Wind Up]

I know what my point was, I don't need you to tell me what it was.

 

I said.

The same reason Rugby League fans in Sydney and Brisbane don't embrace Football or AFL I guess.

 

The fans that support AFL or Football in Sydney and Brisbane are fans of other sports, there are 4.5 million people in Sydney you know.

 

That was not my point.

 

Maybe I should have ignored your comments looking at your name.

 

The biggest rugby league city on earth (Sydney) has more than enough love to go around for other sports (so much so that an AFL team draws more people than any RL team), while the Manchester conurbation struggles to get 5,000 punters through the door for its RL team. My response was a direct continuation of RabbitOz's question as to why Salford struggles so much despite the presence of football, especially when evidence shows that RL-mad cities have far lesser effect on other sports. 

 

It was a valid question, and your answer to his question was severely lacking in any substance. 

[Allora]

The biggest rugby league city on earth (Sydney) has more than enough love to go around for other sports (so much so that an AFL team draws more people than any RL team), while the Manchester conurbation struggles to get 5,000 punters through the door for its RL team. My response was a direct continuation of RabbitOz's question as to why Salford struggles so much despite the presence of football, especially when evidence shows that RL-mad cities have far lesser effect on other sports. 

 

It was a valid question, and your answer to his question was severely lacking in any substance. 

 

 

Who do you think you are.

Go trolling elsewhere "Mr Wind up" 

[The Parksider]

It may be best to stick to the reality 10K showed an interest in watching the final game at the Willows, 

 

1997 Salford enter SL average 5202 best crowd 8241

 

Then regularly bottom four getting relegated 2002 on 4202.

 

Back up yet bottom four to 2006 when crowds return to 5,000 for a fifth place finish (Leeds 7600) crowds up following year but a poor season and relegation again.

 

Good chance crowds will build if the club can compete regularly

 

 

 

 

[DeadShotKeen]

Who do you think you are.

Go trolling elsewhere "Mr Wind up" 

 

Please be better than to call someone a troll because they disagree with you.

 

The defeatist argument based on soccer's popularity is about the most depressing RL line/excuse there is (and it is up against some stiff opposition). In the US many cities have a side in each of the 4 big sports and most sport fans will follow at least 2 of the sides and often all 4. Of course this doesn't mean attending every game by multiple teams - something has to give - but they will contribute by way of the odd attendance, buying the shirt etc. The existence of the other teams usually feeds into the sporting psyche by osmosis and generates a wider sporting appetite in general. You could argue that losing, say, an ice hockey team has a boon on the attendances at, say, the baseball team but you could equally argue the opposite. You'll always get the odd purist but most sport fans are open to the idea of watching more than 1 sport. I couldn't comprehend choosing between RL and basketball, for example. And I'd add soccer again in a flash if it moved away from the depressing hierarchy by way of a restructure including salary caps.

 

I've mentioned on here before that living in Manchester I am convinced that there is huge latent untapped support for RL in this city. Absolutely convinced. The problem is simply that there are not enough big clubs and thus not enough big games. Salford can be 1 of these big clubs and tap into the Manchester sport market but if the staple SL diet is playing against tiny Northern teams ad infinitum then RL will remain a tough sell anywhere, let alone a soccer-mad domain like here.

 

Salford are doing their best. It's the sport's administrators in this country that are holding them back.

[Tre Cool]

I suspect that until the people of Salford/Manchester see proof of a competitive team on the pitch, and a small amount of success (top 6?) the crowds will continue to be poor.  They have a poor image as a club and people don't want to be associated with this type of club.

 

However, are we seriously using a pre-season friendly match against a semi-pro, tier 3 team to measure their success?

[Allora]

Please be better than to call someone a troll because they disagree with you.

 

The defeatist argument based on soccer's popularity is about the most depressing RL line/excuse there is (and it is up against some stiff opposition). In the US many cities have a side in each of the 4 big sports and most sport fans will follow at least 2 of the sides and often all 4. Of course this doesn't mean attending every game by multiple teams - something has to give - but they will contribute by way of the odd attendance, buying the shirt etc. The existence of the other teams usually feeds into the sporting psyche by osmosis and generates a wider sporting appetite in general. You could argue that losing, say, an ice hockey team has a boon on the attendances at, say, the baseball team but you could equally argue the opposite. You'll always get the odd purist but most sport fans are open to the idea of watching more than 1 sport. I couldn't comprehend choosing between RL and basketball, for example. And I'd add soccer again in a flash if it moved away from the depressing hierarchy by way of a restructure including salary caps.

 

I've mentioned on here before that living in Manchester I am convinced that there is huge latent untapped support for RL in this city. Absolutely convinced. The problem is simply that there are not enough big clubs and thus not enough big games. Salford can be 1 of these big clubs and tap into the Manchester sport market but if the staple SL diet is playing against tiny Northern teams ad infinitum then RL will remain a tough sell anywhere, let alone a soccer-mad domain like here.

 

Salford are doing their best. It's the sport's administrators in this country that are holding them back.

 

 

Deadshotkeen,

I am not prepared to explain anything I post to you of all people.

I do not know why you post here other than trolling for a bite.

 

Moving on....

[The Parksider]

I've mentioned on here before that living in Manchester I am convinced that there is huge latent untapped support for RL in this city. Absolutely convinced. The problem is simply that there are not enough big clubs and thus not enough big games. Salford can be 1 of these big clubs and tap into the Manchester sport market but if the staple SL diet is playing against tiny Northern teams ad infinitum then RL will remain a tough sell anywhere, let alone a soccer-mad domain like here.

 

Salford are doing their best. It's the sport's administrators in this country that are holding them back.

 

Agree to a point with you, i.e. there's a big audience for a successful Salford (but don't get the "tiny northern teams" stuff because if they hit top eight they will be playing primarily the big clubs).

 

Last season.........

 

Salford.v.Saints 6,353

Salford .v. Wire 6,260

Salford.v.Wigan 3,706.......

 

also First match Salford.v.Wakefield 7,102

Last match  Salford.v.Widnes 3,268

 

These attendances from last year correlate to Salford promising a good season then falling back to bottom four late on in the season.

 

What "Bigger" match do you want than .v.Wigan? I think the figures show Salford can easily compete on crowds with the big clubs but only if they can compete on the pitch, also there's well over 7,000,000 people in Salford/Manchester, they aren't constrained for fans like the smaller town clubs. If Warrington can start winning and get the crowds Salford can

 

I just cannot see how going on about NRL, AFL, or any other sport inc soccer home or abroad has any great indicator of what crowds Salford can get, best to actually look at Salford/Manchester/RL for clues.....

[The Parksider]

I suspect that until the people of Salford/Manchester see proof of a competitive team on the pitch, and a small amount of success (top 6?) the crowds will continue to be poor.  They have a poor image as a club and people don't want to be associated with this type of club.

 

Yes, that's it, that's what the figures show.

 

Last year Salford struggled to beat Wakefield before 7,000 in the opener and as they continued to lose the 7,000 continued to drop to below 3,000 when they hit the relegation spots. 

 

Had they walloped Wakefield first up and gone toe to toe with Wigan who would have discounted 10,000 for the mid season Wigan game.

 

Nowt to do with NRL/AFL/Man U/Man C.

[zorquif]

Please be better than to call someone a troll because they disagree with you.

 

The defeatist argument based on soccer's popularity is about the most depressing RL line/excuse there is (and it is up against some stiff opposition). In the US many cities have a side in each of the 4 big sports and most sport fans will follow at least 2 of the sides and often all 4. Of course this doesn't mean attending every game by multiple teams - something has to give - but they will contribute by way of the odd attendance, buying the shirt etc. The existence of the other teams usually feeds into the sporting psyche by osmosis and generates a wider sporting appetite in general. You could argue that losing, say, an ice hockey team has a boon on the attendances at, say, the baseball team but you could equally argue the opposite. You'll always get the odd purist but most sport fans are open to the idea of watching more than 1 sport. I couldn't comprehend choosing between RL and basketball, for example. And I'd add soccer again in a flash if it moved away from the depressing hierarchy by way of a restructure including salary caps.

 

I've mentioned on here before that living in Manchester I am convinced that there is huge latent untapped support for RL in this city. Absolutely convinced. The problem is simply that there are not enough big clubs and thus not enough big games. Salford can be 1 of these big clubs and tap into the Manchester sport market but if the staple SL diet is playing against tiny Northern teams ad infinitum then RL will remain a tough sell anywhere, let alone a soccer-mad domain like here.

 

Salford are doing their best. It's the sport's administrators in this country that are holding them back.

 

A few things to mention about the 'big four' in the states - there is little overlap in the seasons. That must help. People can only devote so much time to their teams, and lets face it, football is a 9 month season now, all year in world cup/euros seasons. Also, there's only what, 16 games in the NFL (admittedly the other have loads of games). And, out of interest, how many cities have all four?

 

I can think of - New York,  Washington DC, Denver, Philly. Any others?

[welshmagpie]

A few things to mention about the 'big four' in the states - there is little overlap in the seasons. That must help. People can only devote so much time to their teams, and lets face it, football is a 9 month season now, all year in world cup/euros seasons. Also, there's only what, 16 games in the NFL (admittedly the other have loads of games). And, out of interest, how many cities have all four?

I can think of - New York, Washington DC, Denver, Philly. Any others?

Boston and Minneapolis of the top of my head.

[Red John]

Manchester isn't in Salford, nor is Salford in Manchester. Although people like to use 'Manchester' as a lazy shorthand for Salford (even though the word is longer) or in an interclub attempt to rile Salford fans (kids, eh? ), they are separate cities, and the distinction is important. For some reason, RL has struggled to gain even a toehold in the city of Manchester. Its only professional club (Belle Vue Rangers: an ill-fated move by the former Broughton Rangers out of Salford and into Manchester back in the 1950s) lasted - what? - two years? It's not had much of an amateur presence over the years either, and only in the last decade or so have clubs started to appear and stay on the scene.

 

I don't think it's just RL though. Ice Hockey and Basketball both made fleeting appearances in the city before returning to their previous position as 'niche sports' and retreating out to the suburbs. Someone asked above why people can't follow more than one sport. Perhaps it's a peculiarly British thing, but people seem not to want to. In order of popularity, we've got football (soccer), then a big patch of daylight, then everyone else. They're all minority sports compared to football, some, like both codes of rugby, appealing mostly to limited markets (the north of England and the upper middle class respectively). In addition, big football clubs like Manchester United (and, increasingly, City) have converted themselves into incredibly efficient machines for sucking money out of the pockets of the hapless victims they refer to as 'fans'. It reduces the ability of other clubs to get a look in - not just from other sports, but smaller professional football clubs in the area - since there's only so much money to go round.

 

In RL, Salford (the club) haven't really helped matters by maintaining a profile so low over the past quarter century that they've almost been two-dimensional. It's nearly 40 years since they won a major trophy, and the dust on the trophy cabinet is so thick you can't write your name in it any more because it all just falls back in. Inevitably, they've started to fade from the minds of the people of Salford too. It's anecdotal - but, nevertheless true - that if you tell someone you're a Salford fan, you get the reply "Oh, I used to go, but..." followed by the reasons why, which, invariably, are because the club is pants.
 
So, it's not really a question of whether 'Manchester' wants a club, as someone asked earlier. if Salford Red Devils are to somehow become the club for the whole conurbation, it needs to reacquaint itself with the citizens of Salford and introduce itself to the citizens of Manchester. Marwan, for all that (some) people like to think about him, seems to know what he's doing, building a competitive team and then getting into the schools in both cities to tell them about it. Whether he'll succeed remains to be seen, but the upsurge in attendances at the start of last season are a promising sign.