Salford Red Devils

[keighley]

I'm not advocating anything really just pointing out to people how poor the junior game is now, I'm not in a position to say what the Pro game should do about it, why where and how, because there are posters on here who are working in the junior game, I'm just trying to stimulate informed comment. I appreciate your replies, and that my suggestions won't work and will be unpopular. That's absolutely fair enough, but this is a big underlying problem.

 

I also think the point about owners putting money into junior RL locally but outside the confines of their club, is a very important one indeed and I fear such owners pay lip service and a few quid to junior development, but don't want to spend good money to unearth an Adrian Morley, A Dennis Betts or a Callum Watkins, and watch the lads swan off to Wigan or Leeds.

 

So when someone says "Hey Salford are "engaging with the local schools" to me that means and proves absolutely nothing.

Well, it's a step in the right direction. Nobody but nobody from Keighley RLFC was ever allowed to darken the doors of Keighley Boys Grammar school.

If the Salford players visit Salford schools and just one kid becomes a supporter for life as a result, this is a positive. If a few dothe same, great. if some are encouraged to play, so much the better and if they drag their parents into the mix, that could be a few more quid for Salford RD.

To me things like that would be positives from " engaging with local schools" and would make the whole exercise worth the effort.

[Red John]

I'm not advocating anything really just pointing out to people how poor the junior game is now, I'm not in a position to say what the Pro game should do about it, why where and how, because there are posters on here who are working in the junior game, I'm just trying to stimulate informed comment. I appreciate your replies, and that my suggestions won't work and will be unpopular. That's absolutely fair enough, but this is a big underlying problem.

 

I also think the point about owners putting money into junior RL locally but outside the confines of their club, is a very important one indeed and I fear such owners pay lip service and a few quid to junior development, but don't want to spend good money to unearth an Adrian Morley, A Dennis Betts or a Callum Watkins, and watch the lads swan off to Wigan or Leeds.

 

So when someone says "Hey Salford are "engaging with the local schools" to me that means and proves absolutely nothing.

Although you think the junior game is poor, it still seems to be producing players of a standard good enough for the NRL, I suspect more so than at any time since the early 1970s. Nevertheless, there is room for improvement, but I'm not sure that it's the responsibility of the club owners. In an ideal world, professional clubs would have either their own junior teams, or, more likely, affiliated feeder clubs from the amateur game. Unfortunately, it's not an ideal world, and we've got a sport that appears to have a multitude of governing bodies, and, specifically, different governing bodies for the amateur and the professional game. (I must admit, I lost interest in the whole RFL/BARLA tiff a few years ago, so it's possible that they've kissed and made up since, but I suspect they haven't). This must surely be a hurdle to any such spending that you advocate: if a professional club owner is to spend money to unearth a Morley, Betts or Watkins, shouldn't they have a say on how that money is spent, on how those players are developed and on where they end up? That requires some form of affiliation, and that comes up against the professional/amateur divide.

 

At the same time, I wouldn't be so ready to dismiss the work done in schools. As Keighley says just up there, if it attracts one new supporter - and one potential new player - then it's worth doing. No amount of amazing facilities at an amateur club is going to attract kids to play if they haven't been exposed to the game first, and that exposure takes place in the school. In addition, there are schools that play the game - we get plenty of them playing at half time at Salford - so maybe the junior teams at amateur clubs aren't the only way of developing a Morley, Betts or Watkins.

[The Parksider]

Hardly surprising Celtic Crusaders got thing moving with 23 development officers on their books 

 

Just a shame few people in Bridgend even knew they had a team 

 

Celtic crusaders had about as many fans as Leigh had and that was after playing for 3 years, Leigh had been around 131 years at that time. 

 

Based in South Wales the DO's could spread the game at the lower level right across Wales, which they did.

 

It'd be amusing watching 23 DO's trying to spread the game in Leigh, they'd all be tripping over each other.

[Oxford]

There is a massive correlation between "success" and juniors playing to become professionals. Celtic Crusaders and London Broncos have stimulated kids to play from the wrong end of the table, also don't forget how development officers got numbers up.

 

Superleague areas breed the players, there should be some formal arrangement to control and develop this resource.  

I do agree with you about development officers in particular - I think SL clubs should be made to have the same number of D-O's and it should be a requirement of membership of SL and a ring fence system of strategic areas wouldn't go amiss either! I think links to local clubs should be mandatory for all SL clubs. There should also be a high minimum spend on reach area marketing. Yes some clubs Broncos and Crusaders did very well despite a lack of success but the chance of success is the missing element at the moment, and for SRD in particular the local community are not exactly what you call forgiving of anyone considered an also rans. And in their area they have people giving their negative  opinions about SRD in pub after pub ( yes I've been known to imbibe ) who have never been to an RL match in their lives! Not unlike some folk who post on this forum! 

[Krytensmate]

Celtic crusaders had about as many fans as Leigh had and that was after playing for 3 years, Leigh had been around 131 years at that time. 

 

Based in South Wales the DO's could spread the game at the lower level right across Wales, which they did.

 

It'd be amusing watching 23 DO's trying to spread the game in Leigh, they'd all be tripping over each other.

You are joking ,did you ever visit Bridgend when they were in the NL s ?

 

They would have a couple of union games on 1 st , invite loads of local squaddies who came for a beer ,they even had 2 coach loads of german tourists for 1 game , let alone the local thugs who climbed over the walls 

 

As for the DO s , I'd be happy to have the RFL paying for our squad 

[The Parksider]

Although you think the junior game is poor, it still seems to be producing players of a standard good enough for the NRL, I suspect more so than at any time since the early 1970s.

 

OK Junior development as it stands today is the best since the early seventies.

 

But you should know Junior development was poor in the early seventies.

 

It improved with the advent of BARLA.

 

NRL standard players include the Burgesses', Tompkins and James Graham???.

 

If I were you I'd research the long list of wonderful semi pro British stars who went over to Australia from the 1970's on starting with Stevo. 

 

Then add the players who didn't go. Karl Harrison and Kevin Ward, or Keith Senior who never took a backward step against the green and golds.  

[The Parksider]

You are joking ,did you ever visit Bridgend when they were in the NL s ?

 

No, but I did once visit Leigh, a small RL town, with low crowds, and the odd amateur club. 

 

I thought then that they were the future of Rugby League in this Hemisphere.

 

Today you carry that thought on.

[binosh]

Celtic crusaders had about as many fans as Leigh had and that was after playing for 3 years, Leigh had been around 131 years at that time. 

 

Based in South Wales the DO's could spread the game at the lower level right across Wales, which they did.

 

It'd be amusing watching 23 DO's trying to spread the game in Leigh, they'd all be tripping over each other.

 

You wouldn't need 23 DO's in Leigh though would you as every School plays Rugby League & also has 2 fantastic Amateur clubs in Leigh East & Miners.

 

Why not try and expand Polo & Croquet around Yorkshire?

 

Let us know how you get on.

[The Parksider]

You wouldn't need 23 DO's in Leigh though would you as every School plays Rugby League & also has 2 fantastic Amateur clubs in Leigh East & Miners.

 

Get a job as the RFL publicity and PR manager.

 

Leigh East are struggling as Viking Warrior told us the other day, but that won't have got through your reality filter.

 

I look forward to Easts and Miners providing Leigh with their SL players in the future, because they've only provided the odd one now and again in the past, and they have often left for "warmer climes".

 

 Welcome to the board by the way, you missed Leigh being cast as Wigan "A".

[Krytensmate]

No, but I did once visit Leigh, a small RL town, with low crowds, and the odd amateur club. 

 

I thought then that they were the future of Rugby League in this Hemisphere.

 

Today you carry that thought on.

The whole thing was a complete sham ,23 players all employed by the RFL as Community Development Officers ,playing on dodgy visa's in a dump of a stadium in front of a couple of hundred actual home fans 

[The Parksider]

The whole thing was a complete sham ,23 players all employed by the RFL as Community Development Officers ,playing on dodgy visa's in a dump of a stadium in front of a couple of hundred actual home fans 

 

6.000 for the SL opener against Saints, 11,000 for the North Wales opener against Leeds,

 

22 junior clubs with teams at various ages.

 

Senior professionals like James, White, Kear, Flower, Dudson etc appearing in a short time 

 

And junior stars coming through quickly like Evans and Williams

 

Were these facts a "sham"?

 

No they were reality that you blank out, looking at things through your leigh tinted glasses. 

[Krytensmate]

6.000 for the SL opener against Saints, 11,000 for the North Wales opener against Leeds,

 

22 junior clubs with teams at various ages.

 

Senior professionals like James, White, Kear, Flower, Dudson etc appearing in a short time 

 

And junior stars coming through quickly like Evans and Williams

 

Were these facts a "sham"?

 

No they were reality that you blank out, looking at things through your leigh tinted glasses. 

I dont know ,just like you dont know either ,there was so many lies told about the whole Celtic Crusaders disaster ,I wouldnt believe anything 

 

 

Apart from the 5 players you point out ,who were actually produced by the Celtic Crusaders ,well not really ,more a case of the being union lads , but at least Flower got RL into the news 

[keighley]

Get a job as the RFL publicity and PR manager.

 

Leigh East are struggling as Viking Warrior told us the other day, but that won't have got through your reality filter.

 

I look forward to Easts and Miners providing Leigh with their SL players in the future, because they've only provided the odd one now and again in the past, and they have often left for "warmer climes".

 

 Welcome to the board by the way, you missed Leigh being cast as Wigan "A".

There are so many players produced in one of Leigh's suburbs, Wigan, that they will just sign them from there as Leeds do from

Hunslet.

[keighley]

6.000 for the SL opener against Saints, 11,000 for the North Wales opener against Leeds,

 

22 junior clubs with teams at various ages.

 

Senior professionals like James, White, Kear, Flower, Dudson etc appearing in a short time 

 

And junior stars coming through quickly like Evans and Williams

 

Were these facts a "sham"?

 

No they were reality that you blank out, looking at things through your leigh tinted glasses.

How did the attendances stack up after those opening extravaganzas ? Were these clubs any more successful than some of Leigh's

sojourns in the top flight when they won the RL Championship at least once. John Woods, Derek Pyke and many more gracing the top

level.

I wish Crusaders and Scorpions well but also I wish the same for Leigh and their time is now. Salford's latest successful era is

also at hand and may even crack the top eight in the future. good for them if they do, the same old, same old at the top is gettingstale and the attendances are dropping to prove it.

[Celtic Rooster]

Celtic Crusaders never played a game of Rugby League at Bridgend, or anywhere else, as part of a double/triple header with any Rugby Union teams and no German tourists were brought in to boost the crowd. Neither were any of the players Employed by the RFL as development officers. Yes, the people of Bridgend did not support the club in numbers - the fans travelled from all over South Wales, and myself from Salford every home game. Krytensmate is either badly misinformed or making it up and maybe any further posts should be taken with a pinch of salt. Anyway that's the last thing I expected to see on this thread. I logged in because the title was Salford Red Devils and I like what Koukash is trying to do with the club. I thought I might learn something useful.

[Oxford]

Celtic Crusaders never played a game of Rugby League at Bridgend, or anywhere else, as part of a double/triple header with any Rugby Union teams and no German tourists were brought in to boost the crowd. Neither were any of the players Employed by the RFL as development officers. Yes, the people of Bridgend did not support the club in numbers - the fans travelled from all over South Wales, and myself from Salford every home game. Krytensmate is either badly misinformed or making it up and maybe any further posts should be taken with a pinch of salt. Anyway that's the last thing I expected to see on this thread. I logged in because the title was Salford Red Devils and I like what Koukash is trying to do with the club. I thought I might learn something useful.

I think you did learn something - that a forum is just as much about spin and agenda as politician's ar-guments! And saying you like Marwan Koukash on here could well provide your second learning opportunity

Yes the thread was SRD and how well they might do and I think they could do a job this season.The professionalism around the club seems to have improved exponentially since the arrival of MK and it has to said Mr Harris. Whether or not SRD can break away from the malaise even last season represented, to some extent, is in the lap of the gods.

Try to remember  in forum land there is the opportunity to write but not necessarily the chance to be heard, but you will meet       consistently!

 

All the best!

[Krytensmate]

Celtic Crusaders never played a game of Rugby League at Bridgend, or anywhere else, as part of a double/triple header with any Rugby Union teams and no German tourists were brought in to boost the crowd. Neither were any of the players Employed by the RFL as development officers. Yes, the people of Bridgend did not support the club in numbers - the fans travelled from all over South Wales, and myself from Salford every home game. Krytensmate is either badly misinformed or making it up and maybe any further posts should be taken with a pinch of salt. Anyway that's the last thing I expected to see on this thread. I logged in because the title was Salford Red Devils and I like what Koukash is trying to do with the club. I thought I might learn something useful.

I can only assume you are the former Swinton fan ,( spelly ,or something like that ) that started following CC back in 2005 ,so you are saying I ' made up ' what I saw with my own eyes , what I was told by a Celtic player that I had personally known for 4 years previously ? 

 

Maybe you would like to explain how they managed to put together a full time squad on a £ 150 K salary cap full of aussies in NL 2 ? 

 

Adding to it 12 months later a recent SOO player on £ 250 K salary cap ?

 

They were given a licence on 1 premise only ,Expansion ,desperate desperate expansion 

[Celtic Rooster]

Yes- that's exactly what I am saying. If you are a Salford fan I watched every game between Salford and Celtic Crusaders and the things you are saying never happened. Crusaders never played after a Rugby Union match, there were no German tourists and the players did not get paid by the RFL. The player you refer to, and who I assume is Jordan James must have been winding you up. Jordan knows me and I am still in touch with all the players who were deported. I have never been a Swinton supporter although I have watched them quite a lot, as I have most clubs, and I did write an article in their program for 10 years. My first RL match was Leeds .v. Salford BBC2 trophy semi-final about 1970 and I followed Salford home and away until 2000. I don't give a toss about the salary cap - I just watch RL.

[mark richardson]

Learn something off this load of experts Celtic rooster!?

There are people on here who know every aspect of every club in amateur and professional rl

They are an incredible bunch

Mainly having no knowledge of the true ethos of league the likes of yourself were raised on

[Krytensmate]

Yes- that's exactly what I am saying. If you are a Salford fan I watched every game between Salford and Celtic Crusaders and the things you are saying never happened. Crusaders never played after a Rugby Union match, there were no German tourists and the players did not get paid by the RFL. The player you refer to, and who I assume is Jordan James must have been winding you up. Jordan knows me and I am still in touch with all the players who were deported. I have never been a Swinton supporter although I have watched them quite a lot, as I have most clubs, and I did write an article in their program for 10 years. My first RL match was Leeds .v. Salford BBC2 trophy semi-final about 1970 and I followed Salford home and away until 2000. I don't give a toss abbout the salary cap - I just watch RL.

So you watched Celtic crusaders against Leigh ? , JJ wasnt the player I refered to ,I have never met him ,and I wont embarass who it was 

 

A huge amount of cash was channelled through the WelshRL development office ,located at Leighton Samuels Dekor premises ,the players were paid as development officers as their visa's wouldnt allow them to be paid as RL proffessionals 

 

Believe what you want

[jannerboyuk]

Blimey no wonder it went #### up if they were bussing in German tourists?!? Must have cost a bit. As a former season ticket holder I must confess I don't remember many German accents or Bridgend thugs. I must pay better attention next time

[Progman]

Spelly not watching swinton any more I find that hard to believe he hasn't missed a game for about 50 years has he

[mmp]

not really engaged with this for a week or so but, key point was amateur RL needs to grow itself...

 

few things from Bury are raising funds through merchandise - so check this out: http://burybroncos.spreadshirt.co.ukas the club would love others promoting the name and personally, the designs of the t-shirts are amazing - so well worth a buy even if not local!

 

Secondly - we're getting on ourselves with facilities as an immediate need - there might be a fundraising ask there soon ;-) as we look to turn an old cricket pavilion into a community use...

 

As regards Salford Reds - see the web-site, the club's increasingly working closely with them

[Celtic Rooster]

The players were on student visas Krytensmate and that's why they couldn't be paid as professionals, and yes I watched every game that Celtic Crusaders played against Leigh. In fact, the first time they played at Hilton park I was the Crusaders time keeper and sat next to the great Tommy Sale. None of this has anything to do with the fact that Rugby Union games were never played before Celtic Crusaders games, No German tourists were bussed in and I never saw any local Bridgend thugs climb the walls. I have a pretty good idea who your source is if you are in Leigh but like you I don't embarrass players and officials who tell me things in private either.

[Celtic Rooster]

How did Salford go on against Dewsbury today? Was it a full team out? I might get to a few games this season, catch up with old friends, but I'm really not into Super League.