Salary cap

[RPH]

The way you're portraying this, you'd think that we were both clubs who played in huge cities. As it is,both Dewsbury and Batley are very small towns where it wouldn't actually be beyond any able-bodied fan to walk to a game (from whichever area they inhabit) within half an hour at the most - let alone drive.

so what you are basically saying is..... the ground is surrounded by 20,000 people that could walk there in 5 to 10minutes, but will never have an intention of doing so ?....

[Huntercov]

As a Batley lad, living in the West Midlands, married to a British Asian with a daughter who travels with me to as many games as possible this thread has struck a real nerve.

Within which "predominantly white" area ofBatley would we stick a stadium that would generate substantial growth? Stick a ground at the bottom of Upper Batley Low Lane?

Has Mount Pleasant suddenly had an influx of Asians, not in my living memory and I am old enough.

I grew up in Soothill and the majority of people wouldn't look out of the back window if the Bulldogs were playing in their back yard so let's get real. Do all of your mates go to the matches?

Chairman and board do a great job, volunteers do a great job, marketing team do a great job, supporters love the team so let's not sell ourselves short and sink to lowest common denominator and work to positively spread the word.

[Chris_T]

I'd suggest before we move our ground to an area full of bone idol folk who will only support the club if they can walk there. We should persuade the government to put an end to Sunday trading. Close the shops and close the pubs. That will get more fans back. In my opinion It's other distractions that hold us back, we have to market our product to entice families away from, Next,Gap and Costa,

[Huntercov]

Let us ask the "token" Asian season ticket holder how to tap into an untapped market. Genius.

[phildog]

Terminator, the only reason London exist is the cash which wings its' way to them from the RFL, we struggle on 700 gates so how would they manage on 300ish? Assuming (mine, not neccesarily yours or anyone else's) that London don't have the hoped for successful season they need to keep them near the top of both the league and the RFL's share of the pot, will they continue to survive on the kind of money that we got this year? Doubt it, so that means them being forever classed as 'special cases'.  The RFL let teams such as Bramley, Huyton and their acolytes, Blackpool, Hunslet etc go to the wall because they were unsustainable, yet they have cast far and wide to expand the game at the expense of those teams. Only Catalans can be said to have been a success, as the likes of Cardiff, Paris, and, nearer to the RL heartland, Mansfield, Nottingham and Scarborough have all been flash in the pans. Is it worth throwing all that money at 'expansionist projects' when dyed in the wool clubs are limping along?

[TheTerminator]

so what you are basically saying is..... the ground is surrounded by 20,000 people that could walk there in 5 to 10minutes, but will never have an intention of doing so ?....

No, I'm saying that we live in a town of 50'000 people who could walk there within half an hour at the most - only 500 of whom actually chose to travel there on a matchday using whichever means of transport they choose.

[phildog]

Terminator, the only reason London exist is the cash which wings its' way to them from the RFL, we struggle on 700 gates so how would they manage on 300ish? Assuming (mine, not neccesarily yours or anyone else's) that London don't have the hoped for successful season they need to keep them near the top of both the league and the RFL's share of the pot, will they continue to survive on the kind of money that we got this year? Doubt it, so that means them being forever classed as 'special cases'.  The RFL let teams such as Bramley, Huyton and their acolytes, Blackpool, Hunslet etc go to the wall because they were unsustainable, yet they have cast far and wide to expand the game at the expense of those teams. Only Catalans can be said to have been a success, as the likes of Cardiff, Paris, and, nearer to the RL heartland, Mansfield, Nottingham and Scarborough have all been flash in the pans. Is it worth throwing all that money at 'expansionist projects' when dyed in the wool clubs are limping along?

[TheTerminator]

Terminator, the only reason London exist is the cash which wings its' way to them from the RFL, we struggle on 700 gates so how would they manage on 300ish? Assuming (mine, not neccesarily yours or anyone else's) that London don't have the hoped for successful season they need to keep them near the top of both the league and the RFL's share of the pot, will they continue to survive on the kind of money that we got this year? Doubt it, so that means them being forever classed as 'special cases'. The RFL let teams such as Bramley, Huyton and their acolytes, Blackpool, Hunslet etc go to the wall because they were unsustainable, yet they have cast far and wide to expand the game at the expense of those teams. Only Catalans can be said to have been a success, as the likes of Cardiff, Paris, and, nearer to the RL heartland, Mansfield, Nottingham and Scarborough have all been flash in the pans. Is it worth throwing all that money at 'expansionist projects' when dyed in the wool clubs are limping along?

I'd have thought that the main reason they exist on such low crowds would be the succession of multi-millionaire owners they've had (namely Richard Branson and David Hughes) who have pumped money into them.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant about the RFL, though.

[phildog]

HunterCov, how far back are you going regarding your assumption that Mount Pleasant having had a massive influx of Asian residents? I used to have piano lessons on Purlwell Hall Road from being about 10 years old (1966) and it was still a very white area, and I would reckon it remained so for a further 15 years so I reckon the Asian influx would have begun around 1980. There were still crowds who would walk to the ground from Staincliffe Estate, Carlinghow and Soothill.

[coolie]

Your more liable to use a venue if it's in your local community

In the same respect if it's unwelcoming it will put people off

Teams have to make themselves as appealing to all quarters of the community

A good percentage of fans go simply because it's what their parents did and are purely keeping something good in their lives alive

So that's the generations fan

Next you have "new fan"

Someone who knows a fan and has become hooked into the family of rugby league,they will do a apprenticeship and will either graduate into a generations fan where they will being their families or will fall off and find a new sport.

The problem finding the new fans is the main recruiting ground are disappearing quickly

The good old fashioned pubs

I remember the white Hart been teaming with batley fans before and after each game..not even a pub now.

Somehow the Asian community has to be tapped if clubs are to succeed

Will be like striking gold in a coalmine..

We can debate all we want but the facts are...

It's going to be very hard for anybody attempting this

And good luck too them

Whoever they may be

[Huntercov]

Let's face up,to it. The ground isn't going to move. Going to watch a Batley match doesn't compare to going down the Old Kings Road and all the better for it. It is Batley and that is why we love it.

As it stands we don't generate the levels of support that the efforts everyone associated with the club deserve and in my lifetime never have done.

[Huntercov]

Phildog, thanks for making me feel youthful. Was beginning to think that 1980 was a long time ago

[greavesy]

Nothing to do with the 30'000 White British Batley people who have no interest in the club, then?? Or changing social trends? Batley Nash is normally heaving on a Sunday afternoon. None of those people have an active interest in their hometown club. Are they British Asians?

I am not saying there are enough of the white population of the town coming to the games but look around you the ground is surrounded by the Asian population which is growing at an alarming rate. Our crowds will continue to struggle and I predict that in about 30 years which is two generations Batley will not exist as we know it. And I worry about the future of our club and the Town.

[greavesy]

I agree with sweaty Craig, its solutions we need to find and quick.

Its easy to point the finger but futile.

Aside from that, we do have an Asian season ticket holder. Has any thought to ask him his opinions on why Asians are not interested, as he is probably more informed than the armchair culture experts on this forum.

Wow success 1 Asian fan out of thousands that will really swell the gate and I believe he is not even from the Town.

[greavesy]

This discussion is going nowhere people will have their own opinions on the reasons for our struggle to increase the gates at Mount Pleasant. Lets all get up their tomorrow and hope that the clubs efforts with the marketing has been a success and we get a good gate of 1400+ . One thing we are agreed on is the club deserves better crowds lets hope it happens. 

[graham fisher]

This discussion is going nowhere people will have their own opinions on the reasons for our struggle to increase the gates at Mount Pleasant. Lets all get up their tomorrow and hope that the clubs efforts with the marketing has been a success and we get a good gate of 1400+ . One thing we are agreed on is the club deserves better crowds lets hope it happens.

It's a shame Greavsy that both our clubs can't attract the support they deserve especially in your case,look at the brand of rugby you've played over last few seasons,last season apart,as been very impressive on a limited budget don't know what more you can do. Look at the success we had late 90's early 2000's we didn't exactly get brilliant crowds,got a lot of hangers on who did a runner when we needed them most. I know a lot of supporters that got disillusioned with the game,with nothing to play for,no promotion & no relegation,& the Muppets that head the RFL,still do! So hopefully we might start getting some of them back now promotion & relegation is back,I know when we played Sheffield in our first game there was a few fans there that I'd not seen for 2/3 seasons. Let's hope you can get a few more there tomorrow,good luck!!!

[vitocorleone]

Wow success 1 Asian fan out of thousands that will really swell the gate and I believe he is not even from the Town.

[vitocorleone]

I didnt say it was a success. Far from it.

We've got to start somewhere! Asking the young man concerned may be a worthwhile idea. What serious forays into the Asian community have we actually made?

Its just an idea.

[Blind side johnny]

Not wishing to add a note of fatalism here but if you take a proper historical perspective you will find that both Batley and Dewsbury have always been poorly supported when compared with the levels of support at other clubs in the same eras.

 

As Coolie has remarked on other forums you need to promote individula games as events, attracting people along on the basis of curiosity initially and hoping to convert them into long-standing attendees. It isn't quick and it isn't easy but it is the only way.

[Blind side johnny]

Terminator, the only reason London exist is the cash which wings its' way to them from the RFL, we struggle on 700 gates so how would they manage on 300ish? Assuming (mine, not neccesarily yours or anyone else's) that London don't have the hoped for successful season they need to keep them near the top of both the league and the RFL's share of the pot, will they continue to survive on the kind of money that we got this year? Doubt it, so that means them being forever classed as 'special cases'.  The RFL let teams such as Bramley, Huyton and their acolytes, Blackpool, Hunslet etc go to the wall because they were unsustainable, yet they have cast far and wide to expand the game at the expense of those teams. Only Catalans can be said to have been a success, as the likes of Cardiff, Paris, and, nearer to the RL heartland, Mansfield, Nottingham and Scarborough have all been flash in the pans. Is it worth throwing all that money at 'expansionist projects' when dyed in the wool clubs are limping along?

 

You insist upon inventing your own "facts" Phildog. Please tell us what money the RFL have been throwing at London and all of the other clubs that you cite.

[9' oller]

Look at what saqib murtaza could of contributed to if only hed learnt how to play before showcasing himself as a pro rugby league player!

[sweaty craiq]

If Derek Beaumont hadn't have stepped in you have gone under. You got lucky.

 

No we wouldn't, Derek joined a group sorting things out then become hooked again but at a time his personal wealth was much greater. It is fair to say we would not be as strong as we are without Derek though, but our success has seen a surge in potential investors and sponsors again - success breeds success and attracts people to it.

 

On topic - your success is what you make of it, the points I have seen from this topic is that you have a small but very passionate band of loyal fans who go the extra mile, these are the people who can play the biggest role in making Batley 'sexy'

[Lupset Ram]

Maybe the lack of pubs/pub teams that people are talking about on the other thread has got something to do with the decline in interest.

Knottingley Wells

New Inn

Bull (Shaws)

The George

These are all gone. Maybe there are more that I don't know about?

[TheTerminator]

If anyone's interested, here are our season attendance averages from the late 70's up until the mid-90's - the latter era being probably our most successful in terms of win/lose ratio since Wattie Davies and co were winning the Challenge Cup.

79-80; 1330

80-81; 1329

81-82; 1052

82-83; 916

83-84; 864

84-85; 1015

85-86; 930

86-87; 744

87-88; 859

88-89; 924

89-90; 1506

91-92; 1145

92-93; 925

93-94; 1227

94-95; 1509

[marko9]

The only way we can keep the crowd growing and increase the interest is to get involved marketing team doing an amazing job,we might have limited resources but we can do it,it's already improving