Politics in Wigan - England's bread hangs by Lancashire's thread

[Leeds Wire]

Absolutely brilliant article in the New Statesman.

 

"It's not about left or right, it's about being a decent human being"

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/03/why-sanction-children-road-wigan

 

Enjoy.

[Bearman]

That's a new world record.

The longest article ever written about Wigan that doesn't mention pies or rugby.

[Old Frightful]

And it mentions the Anvil pub without saying it's half an hour's walk from the DW Stadium.

[JohnM]

Thie season it's an even longer walk back after a match.

[Old Frightful]

Thie season it's an even longer walk back after a match.

Is that why most of you set off so early?

[shrek]

Thie season it's an even longer walk back after a match.

At least this year you can break up the journey with a pint in Wigan Central!

[Phil]

All parties like Left 'unity' will achieve is that the Tories will remain in power ad infinitum.

So what do we do John? Vote for a Labour Party that's indistinguishable from the tories anyway?

[JohnM]

Vote for the candidate that you belive will best represent you.

[WearyRhino]

Vote for the candidate that you belive will best represent you.

Who is the Monster Raving Loony candidate in your constituency John?

[JohnM]

Who is the Monster Raving Loony candidate in your constituency John?

I've put your name forward.

[WearyRhino]

I've put your name forward.

Presumably in your capacity as Chair of the local constituency organisation, but sadly I'm not a party member and I'm therefore ineligible.

Why don't you stand yourself, you have so much to offer? Perhaps you could read excerpts from the Daily Mail at hustings to confirm your raving loony bona fides?

[Robin Evans]

Vote for the candidate that you belive will best represent you.

yup.

[Robin Evans]

It's not perhaps easy but yes. At least things like minimum wage, NHS will be safe. Labour have promised to end zero hour contracts. It's better to have someone in power who will do these basic things than be sidelined and just complain how bad it is. What's the saying about it better to be inside the tent peeing out...? Look how long Thatcher was in charge when Labour had leaders like Foot (old school but clearly useless) - no amount of squabbling is worth that.

This is not denying that everyone is entitled to their views and should act upon their conscience but ultimately splitting the vote among traditional labour voters will only end up in one winner. And it won't be the people who have to work for zero hours contracts and things like that. It may stick in some peoples gullet on the left but a Labour government is better for the vast majority of ordinary people - and that's more important at the end of the day.

I agree with most of this john... but Michael foot was far from useless. One of the greatest political thinkers on the 20th century. He was hampered by several handicaps but 2 of the most glaringly obvious was that he didn't have "the look" that became so important in televised politics and secondly, he was leading the party at a time of change, bitterness and in-fighting that occupied every aspect of his fight against thatcherism.

[Martyn Sadler]

I agree with most of this john... but Michael foot was far from useless. One of the greatest political thinkers on the 20th century. He was hampered by several handicaps but 2 of the most glaringly obvious was that he didn't have "the look" that became so important in televised politics and secondly, he was leading the party at a time of change, bitterness and in-fighting that occupied every aspect of his fight against thatcherism.

I'm not sure what evidence you have to support the view that Foot was one of the greatest political thinkers in the 20th century, but I suspect it's very limited.

 

Foot was a great orator and debater, for which there is plenty of evidence.

 

But as a political thinker he was hardly in that class and in fact had some serious contradictions.

 

For example, in 1935 he stood for Parliament and was an outspoken critic of Stanley Baldwin's rearmament policy.

 

Five years later, in 1940, he published a book entitled 'Guilty Men' in which he strongly criticised Chamberlain's appeasement policy. Talk about trying to have his cake and eat it!

 

In the 1970s he was an ineffective Secretary of State for Employment on whose watch we eventually had the winter of discontent. He could see the growing problems within the Labour Party, headed by the Benn faction, but failed to seriously address them, even when he became the party leader. He left that job for Kinnock.

 

Foot was a socialist from a privileged family who, like a lot of people who come from that sort of background, have a wholly romanticised view of working people and in particular trade unions.

 

I read Foot's biography of Aneurin Bevan, and it was one of the worst biographies I have read - a hagiography rather than a biography, which gave very few useful insights into Bevan's modus operandi, but which demonstrated that you should never write biogaphies about people you hero-worship.

[Saintslass]

ILabour have promised to end zero hour contracts.

Students will be happy with them then.  Not.

[WearyRhino]

Students will be happy with them then. Not.

Yes, the ConDem Govt facilitate zero hours contracts for the benefit of students. They've had the interests of students in mind since day one. Jolly good show sister!

[Bedford Roughyed]

The problem isn't with zero hours contracts as such (they were used for years by students, bar work etc). The problem is that big businesses have started using them were you would traditionally expected a full or part time contract.

Stopping the exploitation is the key rather than stopping zero hours completely.

[JohnM]

Some years ago, I asked  my then boss if I could go on a four day week. He readily agreed, saying it was about time I did that extra day!

 

Just as self-employment suits some people, so zero hour contracts suit some others.I understand that one issue with zero hours contacts was exclusivity. That has now been stopped so you can have several of these if that suits. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/zero-hours-contracts-banning-exclusivity-clauses-final-impact-assessment

 

Zero hours contacts seem popular with employers in

Wales:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29128623

London: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-councils-use-zero-hours-contracts-opposed-by-ed-miliband-8752004.html

Scotland: http://www.scotsman.com/business/ed-miliband-slammed-for-zero-hour-contracts-1-3398238

NHS: http://www.sochealth.co.uk/2013/07/17/zero-hours-contracts-in-the-nhs-and-social-care/

[JohnM]

Have you read the articles I referred to?

[JohnM]

Seriously, read some of the links. It's worth it and quite revealing.  

 

A bigger question, if I may, is to what extent  does society/govt/commerce have a responsibility  to provide employment( full or part time) for people where they live?

[Bearman]

Some years ago, I asked  my then boss if I could go on a four day week. He readily agreed, saying it was about time I did that extra day!

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/zero-hours-contracts-banning-exclusivity-clauses-final-impact-assessment

 

Zero hours contacts seem popular with employers in

Wales:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29128623

London: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-councils-use-zero-hours-contracts-opposed-by-ed-miliband-8752004.html

Scotland: http://www.scotsman.com/business/ed-miliband-slammed-for-zero-hour-contracts-1-3398238

NHS: http://www.sochealth.co.uk/2013/07/17/zero-hours-contracts-in-the-nhs-and-social-care/

One of my old bosses called a guy in and asked him "how come your only here 4 days a week"

His reply was " ' cos I can't live on 3"

[Phil]

Zero hours contracts are popular with employers? Amazing!!!!!

[Griff9of13]

Seriously, read some of the links. It's worth it and quite revealing.  

 

A bigger question, if I may, is to what extent  does society/govt/commerce have a responsibility  to provide employment( full or part time) for people where they live?

A good question. But you need to consider that there are only large concentrations of people in particular places in the first place to satisfy the needs of society/govt/commerce (especially commerce). So having a large pool of labour in any particular place could be said to be the responsibility of society/govt/commerce. 

 

The bigger picture is that with the running down of manufacturing and heavy industry in the 80s there just isn't the volume of low skilled work in the whole country now. Most jobs now require a degree of cognitive skills. Take car assembly, once a source of large scale unskilled/semi-skilled work. I was talking to a guy I know who works at Halewood (once the scourge of the car industry with a woeful reputation for quality and strikes) for Land Rover. He was telling me that recently Land Rover has insisted that a the workforce are trained to HNC level in IT, which they company sponsored and supported. So they now have people working there who previously have never passed an exam in their life with a qualification. So it can be done, just take a little effort. 

[WearyRhino]

The problem isn't with zero hours contracts as such (they were used for years by students, bar work etc).

 

As someone who worked extensively in bar work, hospitality and retail before, during and after I went to University I don't recall a single example of anyone being on a zero hours contract where hours could be varied at will by the employer. Yes, hours were essentially part-time, 15 hours a week seemed to be the mode, but any variation was upwards and you knew you were going to get paid for at least 15 hours a week.

[Griff9of13]

As someone who worked extensively in bar work, hospitality and retail before, during and after I went to University I don't recall a single example of anyone being on a zero hours contract where hours could be varied at will by the employer. Yes, hours were essentially part-time, 15 hours a week seemed to be the mode, but any variation was upwards and you knew you were going to get paid for at least 15 hours a week.

 

It's not like that now. I know that the staff at my local are mostly on zero hour contracts, entirely at the beck and call of the management. It's not unusual for them to turn up for work only to be told to sit down and have a coke for an hour (unpaid) because it's not busy. They may be called back up to work, or sent home for the remainder of their shift if the management don't think they're needed.