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John Drake

Labour leadership contest

Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they win the leadership?

    • Andy Burnham
      13
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      14
    • Liz Kendall
      7
    • I would never vote Labour
      8
  2. 2. Did you vote Labour in the 2015 General Election?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      29
  3. 3. Do you have a vote in the Labour leadership election?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      44
  4. 4. Who would you vote for in the Labour leadership election?

    • Andy Burnham
      15
    • Yvette Cooper
      13
    • Jeremy Corbyn
      18
    • Liz Kendall
      9


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While the red "Tories" continue down the path of Blairite politicians as a substitute for progressive policies which address social inequality and social justice then Labour will continue to struggle in Scotland but the stakes are higher than that. The 1% gerrymandered the last referendum with threats of what corporations would do to the economy in the event of independence. The case for independence is about social inequality and while Labour allow the "Cons" to nudge the electorate into what it is best for the 1% then fear will only work a limited number of times as an address to the referendum.

 

Been watching from the sidelines when there's been nothing on daytime TV but really, this is a nonsense interpretation of what is happening. If Labour persist in trying to build electoral momentum on a fiction, then they deserve everything they don't get. All the  "progressive policies which address social inequality and social justice" have come from the right, not the left.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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Been watching from the sidelines when there's been nothing on daytime TV but really, this is a nonsense interpretation of what is happening. If Labour persist in trying to build electoral momentum on a fiction, then they deserve everything they don't get. All the  "progressive policies which address social inequality and social justice" have come from the right, not the left.

 

John, even by your recent standards, this is bonkers.


And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

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You dont look that old :tongue:

 

What are/have they done for you to make this statement?

 

Well, there's stuff like this going on.

Conservatives promised to protect the ‘most vulnerable’. How’s that going?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/10/conservatives-most-vulnerable-iain-duncan-smith-george-osborne-reforms

Two Tory MPs question scale of planned tax credit cuts

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/10/two-tory-mps-question-tax-credit-cuts-bebb-percy

UK tenants staring down the barrel of £1,000 rents

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/10/uk-tenants-staring-down-the-barrel-of-1000-rents

There's the deliberate dismantling of the welfare state, the continuous attacks upon trades unions, the unchecked growth of zero-hour employment contracts, the privatisation by stealth of the NHS and, to top all of that, a new foodbank has just opened up near me. A foodbank. In 2015. Just one of several hundreds in the UK, but the Prime Minister doesn't know (or care) how many foodbanks there are operating in the country he is in charge of.

Read this and weep.

http://www.trusselltrust.org/stats

Of course, some people are doing ok, which is nice for them, and the Tories will always aim to make sure that there are just enough of those people to keep voting them back into power while damning the rest.

"The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate..."

That's not the kind of country I want to live in.

 

But, keeping this thread on topic, I don't believe Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic set of policies to deal with any of this or a cat in hell's chance of persuading enough people to vote for a party he was leading either.


.

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Well the Labour party are in a bit of a bind at the minute, the sensible way to go to actually have a chance of winning would be to pick Cooper or Kendall, however, Owen Jones and Toynbee have anointed Corbyn while the rest are picking the suddenly professional Northerner, Andy "Oh please, please, please pick me" Burnham, a man who appears to be saying whatever will give him the gig.

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John, even by your recent standards, this is bonkers.

 

The whole Labour premise is built on a big lie The left  is no more entitled to use  the words progressive caring, etc than anyone else. 


Four legs good - two legs bad

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, to top all of that, a new foodbank has just opened up near me. A foodbank. In 2015. Just one of several hundreds in the UK, but the Prime Minister doesn't know (or care) how many foodbanks there are operating in the country he is in charge of.

Foodbanks have been in operation for over a decade, before the recession, before the Coalition, before the Tories.

 

According to the OECD, in 2006/7 9.8% of people surveyed said they couldn't afford food, by 2011/12 this had dropped to 8.1%. The figure rose for the rest of the EU, if we call being unable to afford food as "food poverty", then more people were in food poverty under Labour than the Coalition. Perhaps, just perhaps those who use foodbanks have always needed too, but they never have had the opportunity or even the will.

 

In 2008, 984,200 people applied for a "crisis loan", 817,800 were granted. That's a lot of people in "crisis".

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Unfortunately for Labour the centre ground is now well and truly occupied, the Tories have even nicked the minimum wage off them, I just don't see where they go anymore.

Aah, pick Corbyn, what's the worst that can happen? You find out once and for all what's required.

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Well, there's stuff like this going on.

Conservatives promised to protect the ‘most vulnerable’. How’s that going?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/10/conservatives-most-vulnerable-iain-duncan-smith-george-osborne-reforms

Two Tory MPs question scale of planned tax credit cuts

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/10/two-tory-mps-question-tax-credit-cuts-bebb-percy

UK tenants staring down the barrel of £1,000 rents

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/10/uk-tenants-staring-down-the-barrel-of-1000-rents

There's the deliberate dismantling of the welfare state, the continuous attacks upon trades unions, the unchecked growth of zero-hour employment contracts, the privatisation by stealth of the NHS and, to top all of that, a new foodbank has just opened up near me. A foodbank. In 2015. Just one of several hundreds in the UK, but the Prime Minister doesn't know (or care) how many foodbanks there are operating in the country he is in charge of.

Read this and weep.

http://www.trusselltrust.org/stats

Of course, some people are doing ok, which is nice for them, and the Tories will always aim to make sure that there are just enough of those people to keep voting them back into power while damning the rest.

"The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate..."

That's not the kind of country I want to live in.

 

But, keeping this thread on topic, I don't believe Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic set of policies to deal with any of this or a cat in hell's chance of persuading enough people to vote for a party he was leading either.

John, you have repeatedly quoted from the Guardian.  If you really want to make a point to a Tory supporter or indeed anyone even mildly right of centre then the last thing you do is quote from a leftwing paper!  Of course the Guardian is going to preach against pretty much anything the Tories do that does not involve handing out copious amounts of money that the government can't afford to spend. And since the Trussell Trust runs foodbanks they too are not exactly going to be neutral on any topic (incidentally, in one form or another, foodbanks have been in operation since the year dot).

Edited by Saintslass

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Been watching from the sidelines when there's been nothing on daytime TV but really, this is a nonsense interpretation of what is happening. If Labour persist in trying to build electoral momentum on a fiction, then they deserve everything they don't get. All the  "progressive policies which address social inequality and social justice" have come from the right, not the left.

That is total rubbish.  I should go back to school if I were you John and learn some history.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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John, you have repeatedly quoted from the Guardian.  If you really want to make a point to a Tory supporter or indeed anyone even mildly right of centre then the last thing you do is quote from a leftwing paper!  Of course the Guardian is going to preach against pretty much anything the Tories do that does not involve handing out copious amounts of money that the government can't afford to spend. And since the Trussell Trust runs foodbanks they too are not exactly going to be neutral on any topic (incidentally, in one form or another, foodbanks have been in operation since the year dot).

You mean like selling their mates RBS shares cheap, thus losing the country £1bn, or cutting the taxes for the better off?  Which also costs the country money.  And who pays for these benefits, those who can least afford it.

Marx said "from each according to his means, to each according to his needs" this government are in the process of reversing that maxim, big style.  


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Well, there's stuff like this going on.

Conservatives promised to protect the ‘most vulnerable’. How’s that going?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/10/conservatives-most-vulnerable-iain-duncan-smith-george-osborne-reforms

Two Tory MPs question scale of planned tax credit cuts

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/10/two-tory-mps-question-tax-credit-cuts-bebb-percy

UK tenants staring down the barrel of £1,000 rents

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/10/uk-tenants-staring-down-the-barrel-of-1000-rents

There's the deliberate dismantling of the welfare state, the continuous attacks upon trades unions, the unchecked growth of zero-hour employment contracts, the privatisation by stealth of the NHS and, to top all of that, a new foodbank has just opened up near me. A foodbank. In 2015. Just one of several hundreds in the UK, but the Prime Minister doesn't know (or care) how many foodbanks there are operating in the country he is in charge of.

Read this and weep.

http://www.trusselltrust.org/stats

Of course, some people are doing ok, which is nice for them, and the Tories will always aim to make sure that there are just enough of those people to keep voting them back into power while damning the rest.

"The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate..."

That's not the kind of country I want to live in.

 

But, keeping this thread on topic, I don't believe Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic set of policies to deal with any of this or a cat in hell's chance of persuading enough people to vote for a party he was leading either.

As Saintlass says quotes from the Guardian are pretty much left wing at best,its a posh Morning Star.

Ive no doubt i could find counter arguements in the Torygraph.

 

As for the foodbank situation,the need for these has been brought about by the people opening these in the first place,if you can get free food and spend your giro on other "extras" ciggies,alcohol,tattoos,piercings,fake designer gear for them and their kids,buying massive TV's from the likes of Brighthouse and Cash Converter.

Dont tell me this isnt true as i work in the social housing sector and its situation we come across daily.

We also come in contact with people in the same financial situation but they prefer to spend their money on feeding and clothing their families first,whilst heating their homes.

Its all about priorities and education,some people want what they cant afford and will just get it and worry about it later.

Ive seen giro families with bigger TV's than me

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As Saintlass says quotes from the Guardian are pretty much left wing at best,its a posh Morning Star.

Ive no doubt i could find counter arguements in the Torygraph.

 

As for the foodbank situation,the need for these has been brought about by the people opening these in the first place,if you can get free food and spend your giro on other "extras" ciggies,alcohol,tattoos,piercings,fake designer gear for them and their kids,buying massive TV's from the likes of Brighthouse and Cash Converter.

Dont tell me this isnt true as i work in the social housing sector and its situation we come across daily.

We also come in contact with people in the same financial situation but they prefer to spend their money on feeding and clothing their families first,whilst heating their homes.

Its all about priorities and education,some people want what they cant afford and will just get it and worry about it later.

Ive seen giro families with bigger TV's than me

Yeah! Let em starve. Especially the kids.

"Are there no workhouses?  Are there no prisons?  If they be like to die they had better do so and so reduce the surplus population"

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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You mean like selling their mates RBS shares cheap, thus losing the country £1bn, or cutting the taxes for the better off?  Which also costs the country money.  And who pays for these benefits, those who can least afford it.

Marx said "from each according to his means, to each according to his needs" this government are in the process of reversing that maxim, big style.  

Quoting Marx isn't the way to win over a Tory to your argument Trojan! 

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Yeah! Let em starve. Especially the kids.

"Are there no workhouses?  Are there no prisons?  If they be like to die they had better do so and so reduce the surplus population"

Why 'especially the kids'?  Are seniors not as important?  If left to the lefties, seniors would be begging in the streets, especially those who have dared to save or buy a house while working or never been unemployed (the so-called 'rich pensioners' who your previous leader wanted to tax to death). 

 

There have always been foodbanks but by many different names because there will always be poor people (albeit in this country 'relative poor' as opposed to the truly destitute of some other countries).  The Salvation Army were the providers of food and clothing to the struggling, the addicted and the homeless when I was young.  They used to collect in pubs to support their work in meeting those needs, needs that were not met by the burgeoning welfare state. 

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Yeah! Let em starve. Especially the kids.

"Are there no workhouses?  Are there no prisons?  If they be like to die they had better do so and so reduce the surplus population"

WTF are you on

There is no need for families to use "foodbanks" if they use the money they get firstly on food and not on none essentials.

Feed your family first,heat your home,clothe your family in sensible attire instead of designer gear,dont smoke or drink excessively,dont buy goods from rip off shops or catalogues were the apr can be in the 100's%'

Another thing we come across is designer dogs,the number of households with fancy dan dogs shar pei's and huskies seem to be the fashion at the moment,some of these are £400 -£500 a pup.1 home had 2 iguanas

I'd love to take some of you lot with us on our daily work it would open your eyes

I'm not saying its easy being on a low income it is'nt but its about being frugal and prioritising your budget.

Live by your means dont try to keep up with the Jones

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WTF are you on

There is no need for families to use "foodbanks" if they use the money they get firstly on food and not on none essentials.

Feed your family first,heat your home,clothe your family in sensible attire instead of designer gear,dont smoke or drink excessively,dont buy goods from rip off shops or catalogues were the apr can be in the 100's%'

Another thing we come across is designer dogs,the number of households with fancy dan dogs shar pei's and huskies seem to be the fashion at the moment,some of these are £400 -£500 a pup.1 home had 2 iguanas

I'd love to take some of you lot with us on our daily work it would open your eyes

I'm not saying its easy being on a low income it is'nt but its about being frugal and prioritising your budget.

Live by your means dont try to keep up with the Jones

I have worked for a couple of councils in their children's services and came across many households similar to those you refer to. 

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WTF are you on

There is no need for families to use "foodbanks" if they use the money they get firstly on food and not on none essentials.

Like keeping warm say, or bus fares to the job centre.  You can't get food from a food bank just by turning up and saying you want some, you have to prove you're in need.  There is poverty in this country and the only thing the present government is doing about it is to alter the way poverty is measured.  Par for the course really, in the eighties the only thing they did to lower unemployment was to alter the way the figures were calculated.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Like keeping warm say, or bus fares to the job centre.  You can't get food from a food bank just by turning up and saying you want some, you have to prove you're in need.

How do they do that?

Another example recently one of our younger lads working in a house,the woman shows him her latest Tattoo on her lower back,says her latest beau will love it when he's back scuttling her (her words)costing her family £75,meanwhile her 3 kids come in ask for whats for dinner,she gave them a bag of multi pack crisps.

Priorities Aye

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I have worked for a couple of councils in their children's services and came across many households similar to those you refer to. 

I've worked with people like that, but I've also seen someone (only recently), be so hungry that he ate the cans of soup I gave him cold as soon as he was given them

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Back on topic, a man who cannot bring himself to condemn even the very worst atrocities of the IRA is not someone who will ever be elected Prime Minister.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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This is a thread for Labour leadership discussion. Not a thread for right wing "I'm alright Jack" people to prove their ignorance.

Take that as both a moderation point and an expression of personal frustration at your ignorance giving examples of a tiny minority to prove that everyone just needs to suck it up and stop whining.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Back on topic, a man who cannot bring himself to condemn even the very worst atrocities of the IRA is not someone who will ever be elected Prime Minister.

Oh behave for some on here think he's the Saviour,The Messiah

Edited by back to the future

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John, you have repeatedly quoted from the Guardian. If you really want to make a point to a Tory supporter or indeed anyone even mildly right of centre then the last thing you do is quote from a leftwing paper! Of course the Guardian is going to preach against pretty much anything the Tories do that does not involve handing out copious amounts of money that the government can't afford to spend. And since the Trussell Trust runs foodbanks they too are not exactly going to be neutral on any topic (incidentally, in one form or another, foodbanks have been in operation since the year dot).

I wouldn't expect you to agree with anything I posted there. Your response is entirely predictable.

One of the pieces I linked to referred to TORY MPs criticising their own government for the scale and speed at which they are cutting tax credits! Hardly left wing bias there!!


.

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This is a thread for Labour leadership discussion. Not a thread for right wing "I'm alright Jack" people to prove their ignorance.

Take that as both a moderation point and an expression of personal frustration at your ignorance giving examples of a tiny minority to prove that everyone just needs to suck it up and stop whining.

So us non lefties are banned from making a "true" statements whilst certain posters post lies and libellous and insulting remarks.

I'm not an alright jack i work hard everyday and see things that would open your eyes

Ignorance,tiny minority your joking

Freedom of speech is the first thing socialists ban,the second maybe me :tongue:

Just because you have nailed your cap to the jezzer camp you as a moderator should stay that way.

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