Turnover league table

[roughyedspud]

Can we cobble together a league table by clubs with the highest annual turnover?

This is triggered by someone posting earlier this week that catalan have the 2nd highest turnover after leeds..

Can we complete the table?

1. Leeds

2. Catalan

Then? Guestimated guess

3.wigan defo

4.st helens defo

5.warrington ?

6. Hull fc ?

That looks half right?

Can anyone put actual figures to the league table?

[Derwent]

Can't be done as a few of them qualify for small business exemption so don't have to publish detailed accounts. Of the few that do disclose turnover it's difficult to ascertain how much of it is attributable to the rugby league business as they are part of a group of companies, e.g. Leeds are part of the wider Leeds Rugby group and Warrington are part of the Warrington Sports Holdings group.

[roughyedspud]

But leeds & warrington do publish seperate "RL" figures though...sure ive seen em' ?

[Dave T]

Quick Google search shows Warrington Sports Holdings turnover at £6.5m for last year, but to Derwents point, not sure what this includes.

[roughyedspud]

Well thats the holding company...what else would it include??? External stadium revenue? Reserve team football being played at the HJ?

It all counts towards wires revenue imo

[Dave T]

Well thats the holding company...what else would it include??? External stadium revenue? Reserve team football being played at the HJ?

It all counts towards wires revenue imo

yep, i think wires is relatively simple and is in line with previous numbers seen, in fact a few percent up

[Cowardly Fan]

Leeds is about £10m and Salford reported £2.2m Really does show you the salary cap issue - Leeds could afford to double or even treble the cap, before considering the potential growth in revenue through increased spending, while the lower teams can't afford the current cap.

[roughyedspud]

Same with leeds....

Its not as difficult as its made out...

Warrington posted a profit...as did leeds...and thats a rugby league profit

[roughyedspud]

Leeds is about £10m and Salford reported £2.2m Really does show you the salary cap issue - Leeds could afford to double or even treble the cap, before considering the potential growth in revenue through increased spending, while the lower teams can't afford the current cap.

Thats it with the likes of leeds....a good number of the clubs in super league,about half,can afford to spend well over the cap...which is why they should be able to afford a reserve team and a under 19s....no need for dual reg

[bobbruce]

Leeds is about £10m and Salford reported £2.2m Really does show you the salary cap issue - Leeds could afford to double or even treble the cap, .

Only if you believe the only expense for a SL team is players wages. Even if you allow for a bit of clever accounting to ease the tax bill my guess is Leeds won't be clearing more than a couple of £m profit on that.

[Cowardly Fan]

At least for football teams they talk about 60% on wages as a guide. So 35-50% for Leeds shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[DoubleD]

Leeds and Catalan are the only Super League clubs with turnover above £10million. Not sure on the others

[Dave T]

Are Catalan really above £10m, any links?

[southstand loiner]

does the purchasing of new shares by a current owner count as turnover because that's one way that some clubs have managed to stay within budget .

 

profit v loss is a very hard subject in sport with wealthy investors willing to write of money for the club they own .  for instance what would the situation be at Huddersfield with  mr davy putting in money not as loans but in other ways such as share purchase and writing off of loans .

 

not a pop at Huddersfield as I heard that mr moran at warrington does the same on a regular basis and would not be surprised if it happened at a number of clubs

[southstand loiner]

Only if you believe the only expense for a SL team is players wages. Even if you allow for a bit of clever accounting to ease the tax bill my guess is Leeds won't be clearing more than a couple of £m profit on that.

seem to remember leeds announce a profit of around £700.000 last year which when you think of the money they have invested in the ground and the many other things they have to pay out for is about right . after all 32 full time paid members of the leeds rugby foundation is just one expense  and a back office staff of around the same numbers would be even more of a cost when you factor in the probable higher wages for heads of depts

[Dave T]

does the purchasing of new shares by a current owner count as turnover because that's one way that some clubs have managed to stay within budget .

profit v loss is a very hard subject in sport with wealthy investors willing to write of money for the club they own . for instance what would the situation be at Huddersfield with mr davy putting in money not as loans but in other ways such as share purchase and writing off of loans .

not a pop at Huddersfield as I heard that mr moran at warrington does the same on a regular basis and would not be surprised if it happened at a number of clubs

what do you mean staying within budget?

What relevance is turnover?

[M j M]

Can't be done as a few of them qualify for small business exemption so don't have to publish detailed accounts. Of the few that do disclose turnover it's difficult to ascertain how much of it is attributable to the rugby league business as they are part of a group of companies, e.g. Leeds are part of the wider Leeds Rugby group and Warrington are part of the Warrington Sports Holdings group.

Leeds is quite simple as the reported figures in the accounts for Leeds CF&A Ltd are for the rl club and the rl stadium. The RU club is totally separate. Leeds Rhinos foundation incidentally is also a separate legal entity as with other clubs' which is financed by sponsorship and donations, including donations from Leeds.

[JonM]

Catalan Dragons annual budget was stated by M. Guasch to be 9.3 million euros in 2013.  10.5 million Euros for this year with nearly half of that coming from local sponsors including the various local government tiers.

[ELBOWSEYE]

Well thats the holding company...what else would it include??? External stadium revenue? Reserve team football being played at the HJ?

It all counts towards wires revenue imo

no reserve team football played at Warrington, but off field revenue making up for drop in gate receipts.

[Krytensmate]

Leeds is quite simple as the reported figures in the accounts for Leeds CF&A Ltd are for the rl club and the rl stadium. The RU club is totally separate. Leeds Rhinos foundation incidentally is also a separate legal entity as with other clubs' which is financed by sponsorship and donations, including donations from Leeds.

So the Foundation staff aren't actually employed by the club ?

[M j M]

So the Foundation staff aren't actually employed by the club ?

The foundations of all clubs obviously operate in close partnership with the sponsoring club. The most recent Leeds Rugby Foundation accounts are from 2013 and can be seen here -

 

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends80%5C0001112580_AC_20131231_E_C.pdf

 

They state that, "in order to meet the objectives of the charity, a close working relationship has been developed with Leeds CF&A Ltd [Leeds RLFC]. LCF&A provide administrative support and supply coaching and study support staff. The coaching and study support staff's salary costs are recharged to the charity."

[Krytensmate]

The foundations of all clubs obviously operate in close partnership with the sponsoring club. The most recent Leeds Rugby Foundation accounts are from 2013 and can be seen here -

 

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends80\0001112580_AC_20131231_E_C.pdf

 

They state that, "in order to meet the objectives of the charity, a close working relationship has been developed with Leeds CF&A Ltd [Leeds RLFC]. LCF&A provide administrative support and supply coaching and study support staff. The coaching and study support staff's salary costs are recharged to the charity."

Just checking , on another recent thread we had either a Wigan or Leeds fan having a go at me because Leigh's community partner the Leigh Youth Community Trust wasn't part of the club but a charity affiliated to the club

[sweaty craiq]

Turnover cannot be judged as a benchmark between clubs who own a stadium and rent one, tetained income is key

[Kenilworth Tiger]

After yesterdays performance against Warrington we must be top of the Turnovers league table by now surely

[Padge]

Well thats the holding company...what else would it include??? External stadium revenue? Reserve team football being played at the HJ?

It all counts towards wires revenue imo

 

It doesn't, the stadium and the rugby club operate as separate businesses.