Question

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

Bedford, running a business in an unsustainable way is ridiculous short termism.

What you call stretching can only be done a certain number of times before something snaps.

The reputation of the club, the town and everyone involved in it is at stake... as is the very existence of a professional club in the town.

Say you were the gaffer at Bower Fold and CH gets a couple of months behind with the rent.....and you know what's happened at Boundary Park and at Whitebank. You would just say 'You're out at the end of the season'. Who then will host the club given the history of payment?

Say you're any kit/merchandise supplier, are you going to agree to supply ORLFC knowing that they haven't paid previous suppliers?

Say you're the RFL, are you going to go out on a limb to help develop a ground for a club that continually brings the game into disrepute with its financial dealings.

Sooner or later, he will run out of people to exploit and the club will go bust. And when we want to set up a new club it will be almost impossible because no one will trust the name 'Oldham Rugby' because it's been so tarnished by these dodgy dealings.

[moorside roughyed]

Ive got to admit,its great to know people still care about the club despite our personal views.Its been great reading peoples thoughts since i set it off.

[geoffcooke]

Think you need to face the fact that unless there's a change of owner, you'll never see oldham back within the town boundary

 

May as well rename the club Stalybridge Roughyeds then and have done!

[Tangle]

Perhaps the people who go week in week out should decide if we need a name change those who no longer go stick to GMR

[roughyed34]

Don't need to change the name at all, Swinton never did despite playing all over the shop for all these years, if there is NO viable ground in Oldham then we can't play in Oldham no matter what our esteemed leader has done! By the way it's not just us that are financially struggling I read today that Fax are having problems with the Shay (rent being raised by the council) and also they are reportedly 400,000 in debt,most of it allegedly in the form of directors loans,S Sheffield as we know have problems. Most RL clubs are in debt in one way or another afaik. At least we have a team to support and the recruitment is going very well indeed,Stalybridge isn't the end of the world,its a far superior ground to Whitebank most likely always will be, Latics would be soulless with only one stand open.

As has been stated ad nauseum the only way anything drastic happens is if CH hands the club over to new investors or the club folds and reforms. For now ORLFC will continue to play out of town, I ain't bothered tbh, the players deserve support from everyone who claims to care about ORLFC,they are the ones who wear the badge and represent us no matter where we play. For people who complain about putting money into CH pocket by going to the home games,its simple just go to away games if you love the club so much.

Support the team not the regime.

[moorside roughyed]

Nice last sentence 34.Financially most of rugby league is probably knackered. As for the fold,I've enjoyed going and it only takes me an extra 5mins to get there than whitebank. Still I wonder where they're going to sell the season tickets from?where would we collect them from?now that whitebank is gone.

[andykenny]

York look beyond knackered. 12 man team against Toulouse.

[ChampagneCharlieReturns]

Nice last sentence 34.Financially most of rugby league is probably knackered. As for the fold,I've enjoyed going and it only takes me an extra 5mins to get there than whitebank. Still I wonder where they're going to sell the season tickets from?where would we collect them from?now that whitebank is gone.

i got tickets for presentation night on Friday, guess where i got them from?? Yes the whitebank, the do is October the 6th guess where its at?? Yesss the whitebank so don't believe all u read the offices continue to be at the whitebank

[Bedford Roughyed]

Bedford, running a business in an unsustainable way is ridiculous short termism.

 

 

 

I didn't say it was the correct way (though after years of robbing peter to paul might be the only way right now...once in a short termism cycle its so hard if ever possible to escape it).

 

I was (badly) trying to make the point against the often trotted out accusation regarding how an accountant can operate like this.  I just think its a poor argument against CH, its not even logical.  The idea that somehow being an accountant means you can magic up money.  

 

Its just another thing on the list of why rugby clubs are not a normal business no matter how many times we say it is.

[moorside roughyed]

Just seems a bit weird that Hamilton is still at the whitebank when it appears we have surrendered the lease on it.I thought that if you didn't pay the rent, you got turfed out.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Just seems a bit weird that Hamilton is still at the whitebank when it appears we have surrendered the lease on it.I thought that if you didn't pay the rent, you got turfed out.

 

 

I doubt anything is straight forward as far as we are concerned.

[philipw]

How does being an accountant stop someone from stretching everything to get a team on the pitch?  Stretch or relegation, I take it you would of been happy to go back down?

 

 

Yes, cos it has just been this year that bills haven't been paid isn't it....oh, hello Mr HMRC - didn't see you sitting in the corner of the room, dressed like an elephant. 

Have a word - I don't care what division the club plays in - I would just prefer them to be solvent & able to pay their way!

[philipw]

How does being an accountant stop someone from stretching everything to get a team on the pitch?  Stretch or relegation, I take it you would of been happy to go back down?

 

 

It doesn't, but it SHOULD stop someone from spending considerably more than was coming in...basic counting!

[philipw]

I didn't say it was the correct way (though after years of robbing peter to paul might be the only way right now...once in a short termism cycle its so hard if ever possible to escape it).

 

I was (badly) trying to make the point against the often trotted out accusation regarding how an accountant can operate like this.  I just think its a poor argument against CH, its not even logical.  The idea that somehow being an accountant means you can magic up money.  

 

Its just another thing on the list of why rugby clubs are not a normal business no matter how many times we say it is.

 

 

Absolutely nothing to do with that - my point was simply knowing approximate income, and then spending more than (or continually failing to pay creditors as required - HMRC, rent, kit etc) is hardly the actions of a skilled accountant. Especially the consistent problems with HMRC - any accountant worth their salt knows the tax man is the FIRST person that you pay, as if they decide to come after you, you will NOT win...

[Bedford Roughyed]

Absolutely nothing to do with that - my point was simply knowing approximate income, and then spending more than (or continually failing to pay creditors as required - HMRC, rent, kit etc) is hardly the actions of a skilled accountant. Especially the consistent problems with HMRC - any accountant worth their salt knows the tax man is the FIRST person that you pay, as if they decide to come after you, you will NOT win...

 

 

The first people you pay in a rugby club is the coach and players.  Thats why it isn't a 'normal' business, a business in trouble could cut staff (we have smallest squad already) or cut pay (see how many players would stay, look at York) or hold back pay (in a relation dogfight?). 

 

If things are tight (as they always are with us), would you push back HMRC as long as possible (as we haven't been wound up, we have always paid them eventually) or would you not pay the players?  

 

If he paid HMRC, didn't pay the players and we got relegated, imagine the reaction on here...

 

Its not the right why to do things, and I'm not saying it is, but its how its been for years and will be the same next year.

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

An accountant knows beforehand what his liabilities and likely turnover will be. And if he doesn't he is a accountant.

So when he hires players or makes agreements with kit suppliers and landlords...he already knows he can't afford to pay them all. That is massively unethical.

It IS like every other business. Rugby League isn't special and Oldham isn't special.

He has to either generate more revenue or reduce the amount he spends. It's very very simple.

Bedford you are saying it is ok to enter into agreements with businesses (run by people who have mortgages and employees who rely on them) knowing full well that you can't/won't pay them. That we just have to accept that's the way it is.

That's not ok with me. And it tarnishes the name of the game, the club and the town. It's not done in my name and I want nothing to do with it.

[eclecticsheep]

It not ok with me either...

[Logic]

Yawn! This really has become a tiresome debate. Yes, we are all entitled to an opinion but to be pontificated to everyday as if no-one else has a clue about what should happen - in an ideal world - is getting beyond a joke. If you don't want anything to do with it, and some of you obviously don't, then you don't need to, just get on and enjoy your other interests, in business, politics or tiddly winks, whatever takes your fancy.

[philipw]

An accountant knows beforehand what his liabilities and likely turnover will be. And if he doesn't he is a ###### accountant.

So when he hires players or makes agreements with kit suppliers and landlords...he already knows he can't afford to pay them all. That is massively unethical.

It IS like every other business. Rugby League isn't special and Oldham isn't special.

He has to either generate more revenue or reduce the amount he spends. It's very very simple.

Bedford you are saying it is ok to enter into agreements with businesses (run by people who have mortgages and employees who rely on them) knowing full well that you can't/won't pay them. That we just have to accept that's the way it is.

That's not ok with me. And it tarnishes the name of the game, the club and the town. It's not done in my name and I want nothing to do with it.

 

 

Nicely put, much better than I appeared to be able to vocalise

[philipw]

Yawn! This really has become a tiresome debate. Yes, we are all entitled to an opinion but to be pontificated to everyday as if no-one else has a clue about what should happen - in an ideal world - is getting beyond a joke. If you don't want anything to do with it, and some of you obviously don't, then you don't need to, just get on and enjoy your other interests, in business, politics or tiddly winks, whatever takes your fancy.

 

Already do, as have many others - for evidence, simply look at the number who now do not attend

[exiledyed]

York look beyond knackered. 12 man team against Toulouse.

unfortunately for York , they were left with a week to raise a team to go to Tolouse after Rochdales surprise win in the play off . This meant that the players had to arrange time of their regular jobs at short notice because the game was on Saturday  some couldn't get the time off . The York players are not well paid and with families and mortgages to pay , the main job comes first , So they went to Tolouse with just 12 players , only to be told that they could not gain promotion because they couldn't give any guarantees of where they would play there home games although York where in negotiations with Featherstone about using their ground  . So you ended up with the ludicrous situation of a pointless nothing game for promotion to league 1 .Great planning from RFL 

[philipw]

The first people you pay in a rugby club is the coach and players. 

 

If you cannot afford them, reduce staff budget prior to the season or release players during the season. Live within your means.  

 

Thats why it isn't a 'normal' business, a business in trouble could cut staff

 

Simply not an excuse, sport is sufficiently far enough into the professional era to know that clubs MUST be run as a business

 

If he paid HMRC, didn't pay the players and we got relegated, imagine the reaction on here...

 

I think people would understand, if in prior knowledge of the budget restrictions (see 2006, I think it was, under Steve Deakin)

 

Its not the right why to do things, and I'm not saying it is, but its how its been for years and will be the same next year.

 

The fact that we can already predict that shows how poorly the club has been run for circa 20 years 

[The Baron Mk11]

Hold a fund raiser, £25.00 to kick CH up the A*R*S*E, it will raise thousands. LOL

[Bedford Roughyed]

 

The first people you pay in a rugby club is the coach and players. 

 

If you cannot afford them, reduce staff budget prior to the season or release players during the season. Live within your means.  

 

Thats why it isn't a 'normal' business, a business in trouble could cut staff

 

Simply not an excuse, sport is sufficiently far enough into the professional era to know that clubs MUST be run as a business

 

If he paid HMRC, didn't pay the players and we got relegated, imagine the reaction on here...

 

I think people would understand, if in prior knowledge of the budget restrictions (see 2006, I think it was, under Steve Deakin)

 

Its not the right why to do things, and I'm not saying it is, but its how its been for years and will be the same next year.

 

The fact that we can already predict that shows how poorly the club has been run for circa 20 years 

 

 

 

We had the smallest playing budget and only just avoided relegation.

 

You really think people would understand?  Have you been on this forum long??

 

The season we lost every game and was relegated?  How many walked away?  How was that understanding?  

 

People always say things like 'i'd be happier if we stayed within our means' or 'i'd watch an oldham team losing each week if they were local lads' or 'i don't care about promotion as long as we were run correctly'.  Yet the attendances always prove it the other way.

 

I'm certainly not saying its right.  It really isn't.  But the sad fact is, despite our wish to be run correctly, the big/main factor in attendees, etc, is a competitive team on the pitch.  

 

Again I'm not condoning, just suggesting that concerns about ethics tends to disappear when you are losing.

[philipw]

We had the smallest playing budget and only just avoided relegation.

 

You really think people would understand?  Have you been on this forum long??

 

The season we lost every game and was relegated?  How many walked away?  How was that understanding?  

 

People always say things like 'i'd be happier if we stayed within our means' or 'i'd watch an oldham team losing each week if they were local lads' or 'i don't care about promotion as long as we were run correctly'.  Yet the attendances always prove it the other way.

 

I'm certainly not saying its right.  It really isn't.  But the sad fact is, despite our wish to be run correctly, the big/main factor in attendees, etc, is a competitive team on the pitch.

 

Again I'm not condoning, just suggesting that concerns about ethics tends to disappear when you are losing.

 

About ten years, on & off. I agree that some are opinionated (its an open forum, thats the whole point) however, when armed with the full financial facts of a well run club/business, people would then left with two options- attend & support the club (thereby increasing long0term revenue) or simply don't.

In the absence of the 'well-run' aspect, people have decided they will take the second option anyway, as even if they attended, the change in financial management would not occur. 

 

Id also suggest that the big/main factor is not as simple as that. RL attendances are down across the board, it is not a simple win/loss equation. If it was, Leigh would sell out the LSV every week, instead this only occurs when free tickets are given as a 'celebration'.