Spanish team to enter the Championship or SL?

[JoneslessBishop]

Given the travel costs involved and the smaller revenues to meet them in Elite 1 than maybe league 1, I wonder if initially a partnership with Catalans youth teams might work. Not sure how much such payers turn out for St Esteve, or whether that is 1st ran reserve players. They play in England during 'summer' rugby, meaning their players could be available during Elite 1s 'winter' season to fulfill a 'Catalan' Spanish teams away games in France, whilst Spanish players play home games in Barcelona, this meaning less travel for their French opponents.

Obviously the majority of Spanish teams play in Valencia, and Andalucia, but this model would mean they only have to travel to Barca once every 2 weeks and not to France, and could still represent their current teams, thus not weakening the fledgling Spanish leagues.

Could be a great commercial tie in for Catalan with Barca, and if the team establishes itself could increasingly stand alone.

[Hvy wg]

But the thing is Barça doesn't want anything to do with us. They just don't care. 

The union team in Perpignan had 55 000 in Barcelona for a game against Toulouse, we had 18 000 against Wire, Top 14 had their final in Barcelona, they packed Camp Nou to the throat and still rugby is not going up. People in Barcelona don't care about rugby. 

Valencia cares enough to have created 11 teams of Rugby League in a handful of years. Union threw countless games to Barcelona and they're still unable to create something in there.

[jim_57]

But the thing is Barça doesn't want anything to do with us. They just don't care.

The union team in Perpignan had 55 000 in Barcelona for a game against Toulouse, we had 18 000 against Wire, Top 14 had their final in Barcelona, they packed Camp Nou to the throat and still rugby is not going up. People in Barcelona don't care about rugby.

Valencia cares enough to have created 11 teams of Rugby League in a handful of years. Union threw countless games to Barcelona and they're still unable to create something in there.

This is such a Rugby League fan mentality, replace Barca with Melbourne or London for a more traditional approach.

No progress will ever be made if no effort is ever made. 18,000 in our first and only crack at it doesn't seem too bad a start.

Valencia has done amazingly well, if there is a will and way for them to get a team in the French Elite I would be all for it.

[goldcoaster]

Perhaps a potential Valencia RL club could use CF Valencia goalkeeper Mat Ryan (former junior RL player) to promote the club.

[jim_57]

Does anyone have a link to the Original article in reference? Or was it print only?

[JoneslessBishop]

Valid point Hvy, but it depends what the motivation is. If it's to accelerate the development of a small but growing player base quickly in a cost conscious manner, the Barca is arguably the right location along the hybrid model I suggested. If that provides the player pathway from clubs who still have talent available to them, that should see more players available to move into the model.

If it's a commercial model that needs a quickly growing fan base then Valencia a better location.

I'd argue the player accelaration one is key. If player quality assures sustainability then the team can move to Valencia.

Just depends how patient we want to be, and whether Elite 1 can generate enough revenue for teams to travel to Valencia and back.

A potential commercial tie in between Cataln Dragons and FC Barca (very much a multi-sport entity) could also be a medium term aspiration that means Barca is a location with investigating

[damp squib]

Valencia is an absolute no-brainer. We can wish all we want that Barcelona will take to RL but when we already have a city of 1.5m people with eleven RL clubs (better than most RL towns) it would be madness to plonk a team elsewhere without these benefits purely in hope that it catches on.

[JoneslessBishop]

As long as it's economically them do go to France every two weeks, and French teams to go there every two weeks, then great. Will need a Spanish backer. Maybe there is one one.

If not, seems far more viable for the best Valencian players to go to Barca every 2 weeks, and for Dragons youth players to fulfil away fixtures. Would have Catalan Dragons as the backer, with the advantage of their players getting games in their off season, and the potential of a real Catalan tie in with FC Barca.

[damp squib]

As long as it's economically them do go to France every two weeks, and French teams to go there every two weeks, then great. Will need a Spanish backer. Maybe there is one one.

If not, seems far more viable for the best Valencian players to go to Barca every 2 weeks, and for Dragons youth players to fulfil away fixtures. Would have Catalan Dragons as the backer, with the advantage of their players getting games in their off season, and the potential of a real Catalan tie in with FC Barca.

 

It will need a backer whether it's in Barcelona or Valencia and why would Catalans sponsor a team in another country to compete against their own reserves?

 

I don't understand what you're saying about Catalans youth players fulfilling away fixtures for a Spanish club?

 

Having Valencian players travel to play their home games in Barcelona just because it is a bigger city and more geographically convenient is exactly the failed model that PSG used.

[The Daddy]

I think Valencia works as there is clearly grass roots activity there. What can Valencia use as their nickname from their history?

[Hvy wg]

I think Valencia works as there is clearly grass roots activity there. What can Valencia use as their nickname from their history?

Che. 

 

[USRLFAN]

If Valencia has 11 teams then it should be a big crowd this weekend for Ireland.

[jim_57]

Valencia is an absolute no-brainer. We can wish all we want that Barcelona will take to RL but when we already have a city of 1.5m people with eleven RL clubs (better than most RL towns) it would be madness to plonk a team elsewhere without these benefits purely in hope that it catches on.

I don't think anyone is proposing ignoring Valencia and "plonking" a team in Barcelona. If any Spanish city were to host a semi-pro club at this stage Valencia is the obvious choice.

But Barcelona would be worth persisting with as an on-the-road game for Catalans, hopefully any increased interest could lead to a revival of the amateur game there.

[damp squib]

I don't think anyone is proposing ignoring Valencia and "plonking" a team in Barcelona.

 

I was responding to JoneslessBishop who proposed exactly that.

[jim_57]

I was responding to JoneslessBishop who proposed exactly that.

My mistake, missed that post.

[JoneslessBishop]

Squib, I'm not wedded to the idea, I'm just saying it's something to consider, IF it is deemed there is insufficient money for teams to travel to Valencia every other week from France, and the Spanish team going to France the other week, which I suspect is the case.

It could be used as an interim model until the Spanish players prove they are of sufficient strength. They did just lose 50-0 to Russia. If they do prove themselves, then sponsorship and investment will be more forhcoming, making a move to Valencia more sustainable.

The idea of a partnership with Catalan is that their U23 players play the away games in France, as games are mostly outside of the U23 season. Thus no travel requirement for Spanish players every 2 weeks. It would be attractive to Catalan as gives their promising players games every 2 weeks (so not overworked) in the off-season. Yes they play 1 game against St Esteve, but that is only 1 game and it's their 1st team reserves. The commercial benefit to Catalan is a potential tie-in with FC Barca. I'd imagine they would be far less enthusiastic about a tie in with a Valencia team.

For Barcas home games, Spanish players travel from Valencia and even Madrid/ Andalucia. Half the commitment for amateurs, and thus makes leveraging the whole Spanish game more feasible at a lower cost. It also lets these players play for their original teams the alternate week, thus not weakening fledgling structures in those cities. Traveling French teams have less distance to travel, especially those in the majority in the South West. A lot of SL teams do fly into Barca to play in Perpignan. Making it a low cost as possible for French teams would seem key at the 'proving' stage.

If there is the cash to support a Valencian team now then great. Elite 1/ FFR doesn't seem rolling in cash right now. So if we want this now, and having it now would have the advantage of bringing Spanish players to a higher level quicker, then this sort of pilot model, for me, would be worth considering.

[slowdive]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ximo_Puig

 

President of Valencian government has a familir sounding name..is there a family connection?

[Hvy wg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ximo_Puig

 

President of Valencian government has a familir sounding name..is there a family connection?

Very common name from Perpignan to Valencia! So probably no family connection.

[yipyee]

Valencia looks like the Base of the pyramid is in place so naturally a semi pro outfit is the next step.

This would be best situated within the south of France set up!

Over time hopefully a fully franchised SL will have 2 Spanish clubs, 3 French clubs , 2 Welsh clubs and a Canadian team!

This would leave space for 6 English clubs in the old 14 team structure!

This looks like it is slowly starting to happen.

The French teams are nearly there.

Welsh RL is developing players and the national team is starting to be pure Welsh! It's only a matter of time before the 2 Welsh teams progress to championship RL.

The Spanish teams are a way behind but look closer than Amsterdam dream.

Toronto look the part and if they keep throwing money at it until a pyramid is in place then they look like keepers for SL!

As for 6 English teams... in reality there are only 6 clubs who are at an elite level across the board.

The future looks bright...the future looks like a European (North Atlantic) Super league! (With TV rights in several markets)!

[LeytherRob]

Valencia looks like the Base of the pyramid is in place so naturally a semi pro outfit is the next step.

This would be best situated within the south of France set up!

Over time hopefully a fully franchised SL will have 2 Spanish clubs, 3 French clubs , 2 Welsh clubs and a Canadian team!

This would leave space for 6 English clubs in the old 14 team structure!

This looks like it is slowly starting to happen.

The French teams are nearly there.

Welsh RL is developing players and the national team is starting to be pure Welsh! It's only a matter of time before the 2 Welsh teams progress to championship RL.

The Spanish teams are a way behind but look closer than Amsterdam dream.

Toronto look the part and if they keep throwing money at it until a pyramid is in place then they look like keepers for SL!

As for 6 English teams... in reality there are only 6 clubs who are at an elite level across the board.

The future looks bright...the future looks like a European (North Atlantic) Super league! (With TV rights in several markets)!

Whilst I'm in favour of expansion, I don't possibly see how the English game can benefit from reducing the full time elite player pool by almost 50%. That's not expansion, that's just a transfer of power

[damp squib]

Whilst I'm in favour of expansion, I don't possibly see how the English game can benefit from reducing the full time elite player pool by almost 50%. That's not expansion, that's just a transfer of power

 

I would question the idea that full-time = elite. There will be the same number of SL clubs so if the English players are good enough they will be signed by a club regardless of their location. But the hope is that new clubs will massively increase the player pool and raise the overall standard so that many of the players currently playing in SL would no longer be good enough.

 

In any case hopefully if we ever get to the stage Yipyee describes we will have enough additional money in the game to support a full-time lower division to accommodate these players.

[arcticchris]

I like a lot of what yipyee suggests above but would go even further in some aspects.

I think a second Canadian side in Montreal is realistic as already suggested by Eric Perez the prime mover in the Toronto project. Possibly a 4th French team plus a London team, Cumbria and 2 more English heartlands clubs to make a 20 team league.

They could play each other once then split to groups of 10 playing once giving 28 matches before a semi final and grand final

[damp squib]

With 20 teams You're probably looking at conferences.

[LeytherRob]

I would question the idea that full-time = elite. There will be the same number of SL clubs so if the English players are good enough they will be signed by a club regardless of their location. But the hope is that new clubs will massively increase the player pool and raise the overall standard so that many of the players currently playing in SL would no longer be good enough.

In any case hopefully if we ever get to the stage Yipyee describes we will have enough additional money in the game to support a full-time lower division to accommodate these players.

Not every full time club/player is elite but every elite club/player is full time. It would increase the player pool for Superleague clubs to pick from but would half the England international player pool. Rugby union have the perfect model, a English ft comp, a French ft comp and a mix of Welsh/Scottish/Irish pro competition.

The problem with the idea of one league for the entire northern hemisphere is there is no proper room to grow. What if a Serbian team comes along with money, or Russian? Do you eventually just have 1 team from every country?

[londonrlfan]

Valencia looks like the Base of the pyramid is in place so naturally a semi pro outfit is the next step.

This would be best situated within the south of France set up!

Over time hopefully a fully franchised SL will have 2 Spanish clubs, 3 French clubs , 2 Welsh clubs and a Canadian team!

This would leave space for 6 English clubs in the old 14 team structure!

This looks like it is slowly starting to happen.

The French teams are nearly there.

Welsh RL is developing players and the national team is starting to be pure Welsh! It's only a matter of time before the 2 Welsh teams progress to championship RL.

The Spanish teams are a way behind but look closer than Amsterdam dream.

Toronto look the part and if they keep throwing money at it until a pyramid is in place then they look like keepers for SL!

As for 6 English teams... in reality there are only 6 clubs who are at an elite level across the board.

The future looks bright...the future looks like a European (North Atlantic) Super league! (With TV rights in several markets)!

Having 6 pro English teams isn't a good thing, we need more pro teams from other countries as well as more English pro teams. We can't expect there to only be one league in the Northern hemisphere and there be one team from every country. How would a domestic game build? There's still so many potential places we could expand to in England/Wales. Manchester, Liverpool, another NE, Midlands, Medway, another London team, Cardiff, Bristol, South Coast. Serbia have it the right way in that they want to become a semi pro league in time, it seems everyone else just wants a League 1 team.