Any domestic plans for Scotland

[damp squib]

And there we have the difference, I'm after a debate not an argument and notice the difference in tone between your replies and mine.

 

 

I love the way you've become a Parky type clone bringing up your pet hates on other threads, thanks for making me laugh.

 

Presented without comment.

[kiwis 13 6]

hope some good comes from Scotland in the 4 nations in terms of organizing a local comp & some funding for the game in Scotland and local comp meeting RLIF minimum standards can be reestablished. Also like RLIF to issue a serious warning that nations wanting to compete at the highest level must meet standards or will have place taken by other nations that do meet & exceed minimum standards!

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Scotland barely have a pub league and without significant development funding have zero chance of progressing beyond a stable pub league which is probably a mile off. 

 

I've got to agree with those saying they shouldn't be in the 4 nations and there should be some kind of criteria to qualify.

 

Scotland being in this tournament has likely done more damage than good. Thank god the NZ game wasnt on TV. Good game but the whole thing looked like an FA qualifying game where a conference team plays the dog and duck who've managed to scrape through a few rounds. Awful presentation of international RL.

 

Nothing will happen in Scotland off the back of this and we will all have forgotten about it in 12 month when we'll be talking about a domestic league for Ireland after an irish NRL team beat Fiji or someone in the World Cup. 

 

We should focus on France first then Wales. If we have money to pile into development, then London should be more of a priority. Scotland and Ireland are salted earth for Rugby League in my opinion unless we have millions to throw at it and can accept a high risk of failure.

[londonrlfan]

Because sadly he's not as good as Lewis Tierney or Lachlan Coote

If they were serious about development, then they'd want their homegrown players playing at all times.

[Oxford]

Presented without comment.

Yeah right!

[Dave T]

If they were serious about development, then they'd want their homegrown players playing at all times.

doesnt even make sense.

Otherwise all players from evert nation eould be homegrown.

[iangidds]

Scotland barely have a pub league and without significant development funding have zero chance of progressing beyond a stable pub league which is probably a mile off. 

 

I've got to agree with those saying they shouldn't be in the 4 nations and there should be some kind of criteria to qualify.

 

Scotland being in this tournament has likely done more damage than good. Thank god the NZ game wasnt on TV. Good game but the whole thing looked like an FA qualifying game where a conference team plays the dog and duck who've managed to scrape through a few rounds. Awful presentation of international RL.

 

Nothing will happen in Scotland off the back of this and we will all have forgotten about it in 12 month when we'll be talking about a domestic league for Ireland after an irish NRL team beat Fiji or someone in the World Cup. 

 

We should focus on France first then Wales. If we have money to pile into development, then London should be more of a priority. Scotland and Ireland are salted earth for Rugby League in my opinion unless we have millions to throw at it and can accept a high risk of failure.

Nail on the head , and anyone who thinks otherwise is severly deluded

[advantageous21]

Totally agree with this.... what I've bn saying all along

Not international rugby league if we make a full Scottish team out of Australians and Englishmen

Does more harm than good.... help make France and wales stronger

[londonrlfan]

doesnt even make sense.

Otherwise all players from evert nation eould be homegrown.

Not really, Ireland have decided to start picking Irish players, even though there will be Aussies with Irish grannies who are better. The only way to develop the sport is by developing and producing home grown talent. The countries who are entirely reliant on heritage players, have no interest in development.

[MatthewWoody]

Totally agree with this.... what I've bn saying all along

Not international rugby league if we make a full Scottish team out of Australians and Englishmen

Does more harm than good.... help make France and wales stronger

So Wales also should renounce to English born players...

[MatthewWoody]

Not really, Ireland have decided to start picking Irish players, even though there will be Aussies with Irish grannies who are better. The only way to develop the sport is by developing and producing home grown talent. The countries who are entirely reliant on heritage players, have no interest in development.

This is what you still don't catch. 

Italy, for example, played A LOT of international footy with their homegrown players. 

They hosted Ireland, had a tour in Spain, played Lebanon reviving the Mediterranean Cup tradition. 

I don't know much about Scotland, but can't see why you're so sure they won't use the money they got from 4N and WC partecipation to improve local game. 

[MatthewWoody]

 

 

Scotland being in this tournament has likely done more damage than good. Thank god the NZ game wasnt on TV. Good game but the whole thing looked like an FA qualifying game where a conference team plays the dog and duck who've managed to scrape through a few rounds. Awful presentation of international RL.

 

 

So, you're saying non-RL people would have thought "they're not really Scots!" instead of enjoying a good game of footy with n. 1 ranked team in the World being stopped?

[Oxford]

So Wales also should renounce to English born players...

Yes of course they should and anyone not born within the sound of the church bells of  Sauchiehall Street should be turfed out of the Scotland team. Any family and ancestral ties should be revoked and any related feelings and emotions banned and banished forthwith to the realms of Hell where they belong!

 

What a question!

[MatthewWoody]

Yes of course they should and anyone not born within the sound of the church bells of  Sauchiehall Street should be turfed out of the Scotland team. Any family and ancestral ties should be revoked and any related feelings and emotions banned and banished forthwith to the realms of Hell where they belong!

 

What a question!

Someone would agree XD 

[Oxford]

Someone would agree xD

Far too many, sadly.

[londonrlfan]

This is what you still don't catch. 

Italy, for example, played A LOT of international footy with their homegrown players. 

They hosted Ireland, had a tour in Spain, played Lebanon reviving the Mediterranean Cup tradition. 

I don't know much about Scotland, but can't see why you're so sure they won't use the money they got from 4N and WC partecipation to improve local game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Italy are doing development work, my point was more that Scotland have a home grown developed player playing at a good level and didn't give him any game time. It was another missed opportunity for RL, as they could have interviewed him after the NZ game and that would have done far more for inspiring youngsters north of the border than hearing Aussies being interviewed. I just believe countries who are serious about growing the sport, rather than leaching off heritage players, should be giving their homegrown players games, especially the ones who are playing at pro levels.

[MatthewWoody]

Apart from this single player you're talking about, what I mean is that one thing does not preclude the other.

You can have both things, that's what I mean, and work during the World Cup window and collaborate with professional semipro clubs to reduce the gap between great tournament test football and local homegrown amateur game. 

[damp squib]

How can anyone look at Wales - majority homegrown players with a handful of English-born, two pro-clubs, numerous amateur clubs including youth teams - and Scotland - all bar two players are heritage, no pro clubs, one (!) amateur club, no youth teams - and think "these are the same". And Oxford accuses others of having an agenda...

[Oxford]

How can anyone look at Wales - majority homegrown players with a handful of English-born, two pro-clubs, numerous amateur clubs including youth teams - and Scotland - all bar two players are heritage, no pro clubs, one (!) amateur club, no youth teams - and think "these are the same". And Oxford accuses others of having an agenda...

Wales is just one example of  where heritage players were mentioned and used and therefore just as valid as Scotland in this debate.

 

I don't accuse anyone of anything except having a point of view I don't agree with Damp Squib.

 

I have two main strategies which is to point out where I believe the holes in the arguments exist and making fun of them where I think they are silly. Hardly a secret or hidden away!

 

There may be differences between Wales and Scotland in this issue but as far as I'm concerned they have carte blanche to do anything and everything to further the cause which other sports with a lot more help, where with all and clout have no problems doing for their cause every day of the week. But it's much better if we spend all our time criticising our own and restricting them as much as possible while other sports don't just march on but run ahead.

 

All the best, even though we disagree, O.

[bowes]

There are as many semi pro clubs in Wales as there are clubs of any kind in Scotland. That kind of says it all

[NickG14]

If you want a Scottish team full of Scottish players then surly the best thing to do would be to add a Scottish team to League 1 to create a pathway for Scottish homegrown players. I think that's Torontos long term aim, to help grow the sport in Canada/ North America and make their national team stronger

[Oxford]

There are as many semi pro clubs in Wales as there are clubs of any kind in Scotland. That kind of says it all

Well. no, it doesn't say it all. It says some things and without further information about how and why it says very little, apart from their situations are very different and they may need to approach progress of any kind in very different ways.

[damp squib]

1) Wales is just one example of  where heritage players were mentioned and used and therefore just as valid as Scotland in this debate.

 

2) I don't accuse anyone of anything except having a point of view I don't agree with Damp Squib.

 

3) I have two main strategies which is to point out where I believe the holes in the arguments exist and making fun of them where I think they are silly. Hardly a secret or hidden away!

 

4) There may be differences between Wales and Scotland in this issue but as far as I'm concerned they have carte blanche to do anything and everything to further the cause which other sports with a lot more help, where with all and clout have no problems doing for their cause every day of the week. But it's much better if we spend all our time criticising our own and restricting them as much as possible while other sports don't just march on but run ahead.

 

All the best, even though we disagree, O.

 

1) No it is not remotely valid. Take the heritage players from Wales and they will be a marginally less effective team. Take the heritage players from Scotland and the team ceases to exist. They are incomparable.

 

2) Oh come on you are constantly accusing people of having agendas, of being "negative" or running the game down just for daring to question some decisions made in the sport. You take thinly veiled swipes at people in nearly every thread. Pleading ignorance is pathetic.

 

3) Your only strategy as far as I can see is empty positivity. Any criticism is an attack on the game. There are no lessons to be learned. When we fail (again), the response is to blame nefarious external forces or else go back to the empty positivity - "oh well, let's try the same thing again and it might work this time for TGG!"

 

4) You seem to struggle to grasp the idea that Scotland participating in the 4 Nations is not a neutral event where RL cannot lose. If it were I would have no issue with it. Scotland participating means France and Wales don't participate. That is a huge negative effect which stymies our best hopes for expansion of the game. No-one wants to stop Scotland doing "anything and everything to further the cause" but replacing a country with a real, growing RL scene who could tangibly benefit from participation with a country which past experience has shown will not benefit from it is nonsensical.

 

What you call negativity, I call taking a critical look at our decisions as a sport and using evidence to develop better decision making in the future. What you call marching on and running ahead, I call vapid cheerleading which is damaging to the long term future of Rugby League.

[damp squib]

Well. no, it doesn't say it all. It says some things and without further information about how and why it says very little, apart from their situations are very different and they may need to approach progress of any kind in very different ways.

 

A farmer has two fields, one which he has sown and one which is fallow. He only has enough water for one field. We can't really know which field he should water to get a crop though because their situations are very different and they may need to approach progress of any kind in very different ways.

[Oxford]

1) No it is not remotely valid. Take the heritage players from Wales and they will be a marginally less effective team. Take the heritage players from Scotland and the team ceases to exist. They are incomparable.

 

2) Oh come on you are constantly accusing people of having agendas, of being "negative" or running the game down just for daring to question some decisions made in the sport. You take thinly veiled swipes at people in nearly every thread. Pleading ignorance is pathetic.

 

3) Your only strategy as far as I can see is empty positivity. Any criticism is an attack on the game. There are no lessons to be learned. When we fail (again), the response is to blame nefarious external forces or else go back to the empty positivity - "oh well, let's try the same thing again and it might work this time for TGG!"

 

4) You seem to struggle to grasp the idea that Scotland participating in the 4 Nations is not a neutral event where RL cannot lose. If it were I would have no issue with it. Scotland participating means France and Wales don't participate. That is a huge negative effect which stymies our best hopes for expansion of the game. No-one wants to stop Scotland doing "anything and everything to further the cause" but replacing a country with a real, growing RL scene who could tangibly benefit from participation with a country which past experience has shown will not benefit from it is nonsensical.

 

What you call negativity, I call taking a critical look at our decisions as a sport and using evidence to develop better decision making in the future. What you call marching on and running ahead, I call vapid cheerleading which is damaging to the long term future of Rugby League.

But apart from that what I have done to upset you?

 

Also "Nobody's perfect!" Joe E Brown