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Saint Toppy

Our new position in the EU

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7 minutes ago, Phil said:

No conception of  history, there’s one or two on here have the same blind spot

Sorry Phil I changed this just a little for accuracy

But when tripe is your main source of information it's chitlins morning noon and night!


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As has been said a few times on this thread, history looks back far more favorably on Majors time in office than many thought at the time.  I suspect we won't be saying that in 20 years time about anyone currently in government.

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8 minutes ago, Phil said:

No conception of Irish history, there’s one or two on here have the same blind spot

https://irishhistorybitesize.com/modern/let-the-irish-shoot-each-other-uks-brexit-backers-reach-a-new-low/

I think I have mentioned before the outrage at the idea that the troubles prevented the UK from hosting major sporting events such as the World Cup, Euros and Olympics.  The outrage because surely no-one would think that the British had anything to do with the troubles in Northern Ireland.  If you adopt this mindset, then the Irish position seems like petty emotional blackmail.  It would also mean you are an idiot, but that is not uncommon.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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8 minutes ago, shrek said:

As has been said a few times on this thread, history looks back far more favorably on Majors time in office than many thought at the time.  I suspect we won't be saying that in 20 years time about anyone currently in government.

Yes.

That said, it is also because we forget what a freak show the Major cabinet was.  I caught the Warrington London Euston train just after the Conservative party conference had finished in Blackpool.  It took me a while to realise why the train was full of so many apparently deranged passengers (and it was not Warrington's fault this time).


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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13 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Yes.

That said, it is also because we forget what a freak show the Major cabinet was.  I caught the Warrington London Euston train just after the Conservative party conference had finished in Blackpool.  It took me a while to realise why the train was full of so many apparently deranged passengers (and it was not Warrington's fault this time).

I don't think its news Bob to observe that most who attend party political conferences, of any flavor are normally a special sort!

I had the "pleasure" of attending a local Conservative party charity bridge event a couple of weeks ago, in support of my mother in law, it was like a collision of old money and UKIP nutcases, that took biting ones tongue to a whole new level!

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I’ve noticed there’s a lot of dinners involved in negotiations . They always need a good slap up meal to talk about anything. 

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34 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of dinners involved in negotiations . They always need a good slap up meal to talk about anything. 

A rule of presentation is that if you want your audience to keep their mouths shut then feed them while you’re talking.  If food is after the presentation then the audience will be impatient to get on with things; if before then they’ll be relaxed but you’ll get no decision. 

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 hour ago, DavidM said:

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of dinners involved in negotiations . They always need a good slap up meal to talk about anything. 

 

34 minutes ago, ckn said:

A rule of presentation is that if you want your audience to keep their mouths shut then feed them while you’re talking.  If food is after the presentation then the audience will be impatient to get on with things; if before then they’ll be relaxed but you’ll get no decision. 

The use of food is actually one of the biggest levers the President of the European Council has to get things done: van Rompuy used to use it strategically. Many a negotiation came to an abrupt end when one of the leaders finally got starved into submission, and there are more officials than you would like to believe tasked with keeping the delegation rooms stocked with Haribo etc to keep folk awake.

It is actually perfectly reasonable to feed Presidents and Prime Ministers at meetings that start at 5pm and go on into the night. If the scheduled dinner starts getting delayed, that means things are starting to move.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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Just a bit on the news, apparently 60% of Italians said they would vote to leave the EU if given a referendum.

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22 minutes ago, Jasper said:

Just a bit on the news, apparently 60% of Italians said they would vote to leave the EU if given a referendum.

That's not the full picture of the survey though is it?

If you read the full document 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/at-your-service/files/be-heard/eurobarometer/2018/parlemeter-2018/report/en-parlemeter-2018.pdf

you'll see the following:

Only 44% of Italians said they would vote to stay in the EU

Alternately only 24% said they would vote to leave.

So that initial figure is cherry picking of the highest quality.

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30 minutes ago, Jasper said:

Just a bit on the news, apparently 60% of Italians said they would vote to leave the EU if given a referendum.

Not quite.  The poll said only 44% would vote to stay, but only 24% would vote to leave.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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3 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

That's not the full picture of the survey though is it?

If you read the full document 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/at-your-service/files/be-heard/eurobarometer/2018/parlemeter-2018/report/en-parlemeter-2018.pdf

you'll see the following:

Only 44% of Italians said they would vote to stay in the EU

Alternately only 24% said they would vote to leave.

So that initial figure is cherry picking of the highest quality.

People in Italy have had quite enough of experts. The Italian John Humphrys (Gianni Umfroni?) will be on Italian radio tomorrow morning, declaring that the people have spoken, and out means out.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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The same polling has something like 65% of Italians being in favour of the Euro.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Doing the rounds on social media is the French government's post Brexit plan for dealing with the UK. Basically, third country means third country.

It could not be blunter about what the voluntary loss of European citizenship means for us.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Doing the rounds on social media is the French government's post Brexit plan for dealing with the UK. Basically, third country means third country.

It could not be blunter about what the voluntary loss of European citizenship means for us.

Well then, we’ll just not sell them our jam!  I’m sure those African nations will be delighted to take up the slack. 


"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Just now, ckn said:

Well then, we’ll just not sell them our jam!  I’m sure those African nations will be delighted to take up the slack. 

Alongside the expected - we'll need a visa to visit, formal documentation to stay - are a few curveballs: companies employing Brits will need to register them, Brits in country will lose all their rights and have to start again, right to residence etc will be for a third country (so nothing preferential). Then there are the rather long list of technical customs points for which the French are now authorising speedy construction works at all channel ports and crossings.

I guess the only remaining question is if other countries with lots of British residents (Spain would be the obvious one) will move so quickly and create a dark mirror of our own 'hostile environment'.

Still, those German car manufacturers will be along in a moment to save the day. I remember that post about the order they'd collapse in ...

 


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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They didn't put " The UK is likely to be the distressed negotiator" on the side of the bus did they!

The view from down under;

 

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Nostalgic for when this was said to be fake news -

 

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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42 minutes ago, shrek said:

They didn't put " The UK is likely to be the distressed negotiator" on the side of the bus did they!

The view from down under;

 

Is that one of the 40 free trade deals the 'second after' Brexit promised by disgraced former minister Liam Fox?


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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1 hour ago, shrek said:

They didn't put " The UK is likely to be the distressed negotiator" on the side of the bus did they!

The view from down under;

 

Fake news. The Australians are our friends and will do a great deal with us, in fact the best deal anyone has ever done and they’ll remember their place at the same time. 

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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8 hours ago, Phil said:

No conception of Irish history, there’s one or two on here have the same blind spot

 

https://irishhistorybitesize.com/modern/let-the-irish-shoot-each-other-uks-brexit-backers-reach-a-new-low/

The re-emergence of explicit anti-Irish racism, particularly among the British upper classes, has been a sight to behold over the last two years.

Without wanting to minimise the threat of violence, which I do think can be overplayed a bit, I wish we could see some discussion of the injustice of a border on it's own terms. Putting up a border is in itself an act of violence that separates families from each other and isolates northern catholics/nationalists in a state that is still hostile to them in many ways. It is just another scar to add to the many scars on this island. Nobody in the south wants a border. The majority in the north don't want a border. But it looks like we're going to get one because of an unholy alliance of extreme British Nationalists acting out the death rattle of their settler colonial ideology.

Edited by damp squib

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5 minutes ago, damp squib said:

The re-emergence of explicit anti-Irish racism, particularly among the British upper classes, has been a sight to behold over the last two years.

Without wanting to minimise the threat of violence, which I do think can be overplayed a bit, I wish we could see some discussion of the injustice of a border on it's own terms. Putting up a border is in itself an act of violence that separates families from each other and isolates northern catholics/nationalists in a state that is still hostile to them in many ways. It is just another scar to add to the many scars on this island. Nobody in the south wants a border. The majority in the north don't want a border. But it looks like we're going to get one because of an unholy alliance of extreme British Nationalists acting out the death rattle of their settler colonial ideology.

I doubt many leave voters thought about or had any information about the border situation, 9 out of 10 leave voters ticked that box simply because of over immigration in too short space of time, that's the root of all this mess - plain and simple


the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Alongside the expected - we'll need a visa to visit, formal documentation to stay - are a few curveballs: companies employing Brits will need to register them, Brits in country will lose all their rights and have to start again, right to residence etc will be for a third country (so nothing preferential). Then there are the rather long list of technical customs points for which the French are now authorising speedy construction works at all channel ports and crossings.

I guess the only remaining question is if other countries with lots of British residents (Spain would be the obvious one) will move so quickly and create a dark mirror of our own 'hostile environment'.

Still, those German car manufacturers will be along in a moment to save the day. I remember that post about the order they'd collapse in ...

 

Two Bob8-style counter points:

- Thanks for the French info. They are still way too late to build anything meaningful to handle the chaos at Calais, Dunkirk, etc. And it will be chaos: even in the age of the computer, the fabled technology does not exist yet.

- On the German car manufacturers, the leavers like Grayling and Davis have always been very clear. The panic will only set in at around 10pm on the 29th March, at which point Fritz BMW and Manfried Mercedes will get on the blower to Merkel and demand a deal. She will then get onto May, do the deal at quarter to 11 and they will all be puffing cigars as 11pm strikes (remember the deadline is set on Central European Time). 

 

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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