Rugby League - man's game!

[Kayakman]

16 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Agreed I want as many people watching and playing RL as possible and some of the women RL was really good.

 

I find his other comments more telling though, not liking women RL is one thing but his obviously sexism, intolerance to people from different ethnic backgrounds and his content for disable people is just abhorrent and archaic.

I know...its very frustrating but his kind will eventually die out...he is speaking from a different time and age.

Hang in there...this too will change.

 

[dhw]

9 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I know...its very frustrating but his kind will eventually die out...he is speaking from a different time and age.

Hang in there...this too will change.

 

Unfortunately his views are very current, portaying his views as archaic and not representative of modern is extremely complacent. You only have to take a look around are various sections of life to see that his views are held by those with influence at almost all levels of society. 

[Kayakman]

3 minutes ago, dhw said:

Unfortunately his views are very current, portaying his views as archaic and not representative of modern is extremely complacent. You only have to take a look around are various sections of life to see that his views are held by those with influence at almost all levels of society. 

I don't see it with the younger people, seems to be a 50 plus thing.

[dhw]

Just now, Kayakman said:

I don't see it with the younger people, seems to be a 50 plus thing.

Then I think you are not looking with much perception then.  Sport is one of the worst areas for such attitudes. Progress has been made but this has mostly come about through legislation and media campaigns.

[Jace]

The last straw for me is when the game starts appeasing and conforming to leftist views. The NRL has already done enough damage with the stunt they pulled at the GF which turned many fans away. Once it goes full steam ahead, I'm sorry but that will be the day I no longer support the game. Politics should be kept out of sport however it seems those on the left are determined to let it dominate every aspect of our daily lives. It's not enough that we have to contend with it everywhere we look, it now also has to be in one area that nobody in their right minds looks to with political issues in mind

[Just Browny]

5 minutes ago, Jace said:

The last straw for me is when the game starts appeasing and conforming to leftist views. The NRL has already done enough damage with the stunt they pulled at the GF which turned many fans away. Once it goes full steam ahead, I'm sorry but that will be the day I no longer support the game. Politics should be kept out of sport however it seems those on the left are determined to let it dominate every aspect of our daily lives. It's not enough that we have to contend with it everywhere we look, it now also has to be in one area that nobody in their right minds looks to with political issues in mind

I would be interested in knowing what you are saying here. Do you think Danny Lockwood has left-wing views? It is his overtly political article that has kicked off this discussion.

Or is it that encouraging women's participation in RL is a leftist pursuit?

[dhw]

6 minutes ago, Jace said:

The last straw for me is when the game starts appeasing and conforming to leftist views. The NRL has already done enough damage with the stunt they pulled at the GF which turned many fans away. Once it goes full steam ahead, I'm sorry but that will be the day I no longer support the game. Politics should be kept out of sport however it seems those on the left are determined to let it dominate every aspect of our daily lives. It's not enough that we have to contend with it everywhere we look, it now also has to be in one area that nobody in their right minds looks to with political issues in mind

Inclusiveness is very political in nature. Does that mean you are against diversity based on gender/ehnicity/sexuality/etc ?

Politics has always been part of sport, and is a good thing, political interference usually is not good.

[RP London]

11 minutes ago, Jace said:

The last straw for me is when the game starts appeasing and conforming to leftist views. The NRL has already done enough damage with the stunt they pulled at the GF which turned many fans away. Once it goes full steam ahead, I'm sorry but that will be the day I no longer support the game. Politics should be kept out of sport however it seems those on the left are determined to let it dominate every aspect of our daily lives. It's not enough that we have to contend with it everywhere we look, it now also has to be in one area that nobody in their right minds looks to with political issues in mind

hang on... I sit on the right of the political spectrum and I am not a fan of his article and think it smacks of sexism, racism and general misogynistic clap trap.. it is not leftist to think that this sort of thing is wrong and that changes need to be made for diversity and equality.. 

[Jace]

2 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I would be interested in knowing what you are saying here. Do you think Danny Lockwood has left-wing views? It is his overtly political article that has kicked off this discussion.

Or is it that encouraging women's participation in RL is a leftist pursuit?

 

1 minute ago, dhw said:

Inclusiveness is very political in nature. Does that mean you are against diversity based on gender/ehnicity/sexuality/etc ?

Politics has always been part of sport, and is a good thing, political interference usually is not good.

I'm saying that just he shouldn't be shutdown just because his views are not in line with left wing agendas  

[Just Browny]

Just now, Jace said:

 

I'm saying that just he shouldn't be shutdown just because his views are not in line with left wing agendas  

No one has said he should be shut down.

A few people have said he seems to be an utter tool. That is my impression too, and a reason I have never bought LW.

[Jace]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

hang on... I sit on the right of the political spectrum and I am not a fan of his article and think it smacks of sexism, racism and general misogynistic clap trap.. it is not leftist to think that this sort of thing is wrong and that changes need to be made for diversity and equality.. 

Sexism in what sense? Men and women aren't the same and never will be. That's just a fact of life. A sport like rugby league is better suited to men even though that doesn't mean women should be excluded on the basis of sex. Show me where the racism is?

[dhw]

Just now, Jace said:

 

I'm saying that just he shouldn't be shutdown just because his views are not in line with left wing agendas  

His views are not being shutdown, they are quite rightly being challenged. If you want to see where this guy is coming from check out his two publications on the IRD. Rather than being a left wing agenda, as with meritocracy, diversity is promoted by left wing and right wing affiliations in a liberal democracy.

[Tonka]

Danny's comments are appalling and anyone defending them on the grounds they are commonplace or he is entitled to his opinion are wide of the mark.  Nobody is challenging that he has free speech or that others may even share his hopelessly antiquated view points.  The issue is that its just bordering-on-nasty, myopic drivel of the kind that has been holding mankind back since the dawn of civilisation.  The dual tragedy of it is that (i) there are probably some (half) decent points in there but they get lost in the quagmire and (ii) some people agree with him.

 

[RP London]

17 minutes ago, Jace said:

Sexism in what sense? Men and women aren't the same and never will be. That's just a fact of life. A sport like rugby league is better suited to men even though that doesn't mean women should be excluded on the basis of sex. Show me where the racism is?

the zoro costumes being worn around Dewsbury and Bradford.. that is degrading a religous symbol central to some people's beliefs.. that is racist.. 

I agree men and women arent the same.. it would be a fool that said they were... however, to go out and say RL is a "Mans game" is clap trap... it is a sport.. the way men play it makes it tough and btw the women play it ruddy tough too but even if they played it slightly differently, less tough but more handling and skill, they are still playing the same game to the same rules they just would use tactics that are different in the same way as some mens clubs play big bosh RL and others play more silky smooth RL.. its the same game though... 

The article is just wrong... but i'm not asking him to stop (though i dont like his views) because discourse is the way to change his views not stopping him from publishing them.

[RP London]

14 minutes ago, Jace said:

 

I'm saying that just he shouldn't be shutdown just because his views are not in line with left wing agendas  

where are the "left wing" agendas... what exactly is left wing about them?

[Tonka]

12 minutes ago, Jace said:

Sexism in what sense? Men and women aren't the same and never will be. That's just a fact of life. A sport like rugby league is better suited to men even though that doesn't mean women should be excluded on the basis of sex. Show me where the racism is?

Referring to coveribg cheerleaders up, "making them dress up in the full black Zorro outfits like the ladies wear in Dewsbury and Bradford"

[Kayakman]

59 minutes ago, dhw said:

Then I think you are not looking with much perception then.  Sport is one of the worst areas for such attitudes. Progress has been made but this has mostly come about through legislation and media campaigns.

I thought about what you said about being complacent...I think you might be right...its just that I'm positive about things...I don't think you are ever going to change some attitudes.I wish my whole being that you were wrong but you just might be right...but I won't stop hoping for the best!  

Anyone who has ever coached female rugby knows that there is a unique drive and spirit to the ladies that the men just don't have.

[dhw]

3 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I thought about what you said about being complacent...I think you might be right...its just that I'm positive about things...I don't think you are ever going to change some attitudes.I wish my whole being that you were wrong but you just might be right...but I won't stop hoping for the best!  

Anyone who has ever coached female rugby knows that there is a unique drive and spirit to the ladies that the men just don't have.

I think there is a lot to be said for being positive. But the amount of representation of women at various levels is the best indication we have, based off of this his attitudes are much more popular than the liberal minded brigade would wish for. There does appear to a noticeable change in sport at least in terms of women's sport gaining greater acceptance and enthusiasm among the general public, and that would be a great help if maintained.

[Jim Prendle]

Back to the Darts girls for a moment.

Did anyone see the darts girls on Breakfast TV yesterday thanking the feminist spokesperson for making them unemployed?

Rather than be all outraged about it, maybe someone should ask the ladies involved if they are happy with the job they are doing, and the impression they think they are creating.

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Back to the Darts girls for a moment.

Did anyone see the darts girls on Breakfast TV yesterday thanking the feminist spokesperson for making them unemployed?

Rather than be all outraged about it, maybe someone should ask the ladies involved if they are happy with the job they are doing, and the impression they think they are creating.

this is where the radio 5 show was very interesting as they had a grid girl on it who loved her job etc.. she was an accountant and did the grid girling on a weekend because she loved motor sport.. and fair play. She also said that depending on the motor sport they were also used as spokespeople for the sponsors/companies so its not all about standing around looking pretty.

I have no issue with having them, or not, and if they want to have boys there too (though this seems to be very devisive).

The pressure for the PDC is coming from broadcasters etc (which may/probably is be being influenced by the feminist lobby) but the PDC are reacting to the broadcasters who will potentially withdraw money, this could also start to come from sponsors.. perhaps what should be done more than just withdrawing them, if they are so essential, is to work with these lobbies to make what they are doing more palatable.. that would surely seem wise, otherwise you have to assume that there really isnt much point in having them except for "for eye candy" which isnt really a great reason. 

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Back to the Darts girls for a moment.

Did anyone see the darts girls on Breakfast TV yesterday thanking the feminist spokesperson for making them unemployed?

Rather than be all outraged about it, maybe someone should ask the ladies involved if they are happy with the job they are doing, and the impression they think they are creating.

Firstly, I'm absolutely convinced this 'darts girls' story is a complete set-up concocted by the Sun, Sky and the Hearns working in cahoots and we'll almost certainly see them back for the Premier League. It's no coincidence it's come out during a quiet period and when they have to sell their first season without Phil Taylor.

Secondly, even if it's all above board and genuine, I'm struggling to believe that walking fifty yards ever other week whilst Michael van Gerwen tries not to stare at your bum is what pays all the bills.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

No one has said he should be shut down.

A few people have said he seems to be an utter tool. That is my impression too, and a reason I have never bought LW.

Ah the old, "we cant even be sexist and racist nowadays without those pesky lefties censoring us" victim mentality.

Its a made up narrative that makes them stronger.

Its weird.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Jace said:

 

I'm saying that just he shouldn't be shutdown just because his views are not in line with left wing agendas  

FAKE NEWS. Nobody has said shut him down.

 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Jim Prendle said:

Back to the Darts girls for a moment.

Did anyone see the darts girls on Breakfast TV yesterday thanking the feminist spokesperson for making them unemployed?

Rather than be all outraged about it, maybe someone should ask the ladies involved if they are happy with the job they are doing, and the impression they think they are creating.

What was the discussion Jim? Any more detail than above?

The darts discussion may be worthy of its own thread to be fair as its interesting. 

[Jim Prendle]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What was the discussion Jim? Any more detail than above?

The darts discussion may be worthy of its own thread to be fair as its interesting. 

It was as straightforward as that really.

The Darts girls were on discussing the fact that they loved their jobs, and that they were now out of a job, and the feminist spokesperson was saying that they shouldn't be doing it in the first place as it is demeaning to women.

I would have thought that being preached to by another woman as to what they can, and cannot do, is more demeaning than the job they were doing in the first place.

It just seems a bit odd that some people think they have the right to "protect" other people, even if those people don't actually want, or need, protecting.