Rugby League - man's game!

[Evil Homer]

5 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

No they need to get over themselves. It's a Victorian attitude. The human body should be celebrated. Looking at a near perfect form is a joy to behold and can brighten up the dullest of sports, particularly F1.

Yeah and most of us can find time to celebrate the human body without the need to ogle women at sporting events.

[RP London]

24 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

No they need to get over themselves. It's a Victorian attitude. The human body should be celebrated. Looking at a near perfect form is a joy to behold and can brighten up the dullest of sports, particularly F1.

a few things:

1. Actually its not a Victorian attitude.. Victorian's as a whole were filthy beasts.. its just that openly it was frowned upon by a more religious heavy sector of society (a relatively small one at that) but in reality "porn" was very popular in Victorian society.. the penny flicks were filthy in their way and most people had major vices..  the idea of a Victorian Prudish attitude is very much from film and from books in reality they were no different to the population today. (minor point but as someone who studied this sort of thing its a proper bug bear)

2. I agree on celebrating the human body but as we have said before it is about your taste.. why not the "plus size model" (never quite sure where the plus size starts but some that seem to be classified as that are very nice indeed!) as well, or as Spidey say men.. that would float a fair few people's boat of someone with the exact same view as you but just of a different sexual persuasion, why should they not get to ogle someone with a near perfect form brightening up a dull F1 race for them?

3. Conversely surely if you are watching F1 just for the grid girls you would be better spending your time watching something else they're only shown on TV for about 5 minutes whole they are walking around the grid and interviewing the drivers (most of which time is spent talking to the drivers and not having the girls on camera).. 

[RP London]

2 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

Just as I thought, they are removing PR girls only from the grid. Hardly a revolution of ethics from the F1 bosses. Alot of former grid girls have spoken out saying "this is not defending women, but defending the women who feel threatend by other women in a career they know nothing about" most said they loved the job and never felt uncomfortable and the outfits were tasteful.

Seems a good idea in theory but in practice how are you going to put kids in 40 + degree heat of a F1 track.

to be fair Matt I am sure they have thought this through and arent going to be putting the kids in any danger.. of all the sports this is one that has some superb medical people associated with it.

[RP London]

2 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

The grid girls were usually dressed in oufits of the sponsors of that race i.e Fly Emirates or Santander etc.. or in traditional dress of that country to promote tourism. They do not wear bikinis or lingerie, that is why these analogies with strip clubs etc is ridiculous.

and you only have to google image "grid girls" to see that.. I used the examples I did as they sprung to mind (I dont watch that much F1 as I dont find it that interesting, and just watching it for the grid girls is strange) and I wasnt sure who was involved elsewhere. As I say I think it was more a case of getting rid of the official "grid girl" so that it opened up the pathway to put men/boys etc you cant really do that with a "grid girl" name.. a bit of gender neutralisation etc. 

[Mattrhino]

56 minutes ago, RP London said:

and you only have to google image "grid girls" to see that.. I used the examples I did as they sprung to mind (I dont watch that much F1 as I dont find it that interesting, and just watching it for the grid girls is strange) and I wasnt sure who was involved elsewhere. As I say I think it was more a case of getting rid of the official "grid girl" so that it opened up the pathway to put men/boys etc you cant really do that with a "grid girl" name.. a bit of gender neutralisation etc. 

But the initial reason for scrapping them was for it not fitting in with thier brand ethics. Which was ludicrous because they will still have hundreds of promotional women all over the paddock and stands. It was a cheap soundbite by them to look "progressive" which got them alot of press. Alot of backlash also by the way especially by the girls who quite rightly don't see thier career choice as prostitution which some in the media would have you think.

Kids/mascots could be a great idea, like you said if they have come out with this idea initially instead of potraying themselves in a holier than thou attitude. All this may have been adverted.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Mattrhino said:

But the initial reason for scrapping them was for it not fitting in with thier brand ethics. Which was ludicrous because they will still have hundreds of promotional women all over the paddock and stands. It was a cheap soundbite by them to look "progressive" which got them alot of press. Alot of backlash also by the way especially by the girls who quite rightly don't see thier career choice as prostitution which some in the media would have you think.

Kids/mascots could be a great idea, like you said if they have come out with this idea initially instead of potraying themselves in a holier than thou attitude. All this may have been adverted.

You cant just lump all roles by females as the same thing.

The grid girls as far as im aware were there simply to stand and look pretty for the men, maybe hold a brolly to provide shade for their men.

Many of the promo staff will carry put other roles, and whilst there will undoubtedly be plenty of attractive people in roles like hosting, bar work, waiting on, promo work for companies their sole purpose wont be to stand and look pretty for the men.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

But the initial reason for scrapping them was for it not fitting in with thier brand ethics.

As pointed out, venues such as Silverstone were saying they didn't want them. Take it up with them.

[Mattrhino]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

You cant just lump all roles by females as the same thing.

The grid girls as far as im aware were there simply to stand and look pretty for the men, maybe hold a brolly to provide shade for their men.

Many of the promo staff will carry put other roles, and whilst there will undoubtedly be plenty of attractive people in roles like hosting, bar work, waiting on, promo work for companies their sole purpose wont be to stand and look pretty for the men.

They were for promotional purposes to advertise the main sponsor or to represent that country. 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Many of the promo staff will carry put other roles, and whilst there will undoubtedly be plenty of attractive people in roles like hosting, bar work, waiting on, promo work for companies their sole purpose wont be to stand and look pretty for the men.

In a previous life, I was sometimes to be found in the exhibition space at medical conferences with the pharmaceutical stands.

I have rarely felt uglier in my life. With very few exceptions, the women were stunning and dressed to show it. The men on the stands were the kind who can wear a white shirt and make folk think of Mr Darcy.

They were all qualified scientists able to talk about their products and think on their feet in terms of sales, marketing and the like. There wasn't a single promo girl or boy present. But there was eye candy for all.

That's what we'll be seeing more of amongst the sponsors at F1 and elsewhere.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Mattrhino said:

They were for promotional purposes to advertise the main sponsor or to represent that country. 

What skills were they demonstrating? 

[Mattrhino]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

As pointed out, venues such as Silverstone were saying they didn't want them. Take it up with them.

Yeah I'm sure they will be turning away Red Bull, Monster, Tag Heur, Satander at the door.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Mattrhino said:

Yeah I'm sure they will be turning away Red Bull, Monster, Tag Heur, Satander at the door.

Why would they? That's not their brand.

[Mattrhino]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

What skills were they demonstrating? 

The same as any model ever? Not sure what point you are trying to convey.

[Mattrhino]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Why would they? That's not their brand.

Because they will be using pretty women to promote thier brand within the race track enclosure and paying them alot of money to. Why would they be against one form but not the other.

[RP London]

16 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

But the initial reason for scrapping them was for it not fitting in with thier brand ethics. Which was ludicrous because they will still have hundreds of promotional women all over the paddock and stands. It was a cheap soundbite by them to look "progressive" which got them alot of press. Alot of backlash also by the way especially by the girls who quite rightly don't see thier career choice as prostitution which some in the media would have you think.

Kids/mascots could be a great idea, like you said if they have come out with this idea initially instead of potraying themselves in a holier than thou attitude. All this may have been adverted.

I think, as has been said, this is more the perception rather than the actuality (which is very often the case). The preception being that those that just stand on the grid looking pretty are doing only that (I dont know they may be doing a lot more) where as those off the grid are doing a lot of extra work whilst also looking pretty.. and I do understand that, perception is hugely important.

[RP London]

9 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

They were for promotional purposes to advertise the main sponsor or to represent that country. 

I think the point is that that can be done by men and by women not of a specific body type etc. there was no argument that meant that you had to have "good looking girls"... and it was becoming a very awkward conversation to have (as this thread shows). 

[Mattrhino]

What extra work will someone wearing a Santander dress in the paddock be doing than the woman wearing a Fly Emirates dress on the grid!?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Mattrhino said:

Because they will be using pretty women to promote thier brand within the race track enclosure and paying them alot of money to. Why would they be against one form but not the other.

Silverstone, as an example, is a brand. It has decided to tell Formula 1 that it doesn't think the use of grid girls reflects well on the Silverstone band as host venue for Formula 1.

It's not really up to Silverstone to tell other brands what they should and should not do to promote themselves. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of those brands also have a bit of a think given that they are now also living in a world where sponsorship and purchase decisions are not necessarily made by an older bloke who likes simpering totty.

[RP London]

Just now, Mattrhino said:

What extra work will someone wearing a Santander dress in the paddock be doing than the woman wearing a Fly Emirates dress on the grid!?

Dont know.. do you?

I would assume that the grid girls went off and did some other work but I do not know if they did.. they may have just packed up and gone home.. the point is that there is a perception which isnt great and they are aiming to get rid of that perception.

[iangidds]

5 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Yeah I'm sure they will be turning away Red Bull, Monster, Tag Heur, Satander at the door.

Thing is with Puritanism in full flow , venues are just not going to want to attract negative press; the floodgates are open the world has gone PC crazy and the Health and safety lot are running riot !

i think the much needed health and safety laws have been twisted and extended way beyond what they were intended to be, I was hearing from an official at Leigh that they had to do a 16 page risk assessment on how to get half time kids onto the pitch and back!

[Mattrhino]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

I think the point is that that can be done by men and by women not of a specific body type etc. there was no argument that meant that you had to have "good looking girls"... and it was becoming a very awkward conversation to have (as this thread shows). 

But companies will always use good looking people to represent thier brand. It is not a new thing nor does this spell the end to the pratice. 

No one wants to see a fat middle aged balding man.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

No one wants to see a fat middle aged balding man.

So I’m being discriminated out of a job. Thanks ?

[Mattrhino]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Silverstone, as an example, is a brand. It has decided to tell Formula 1 that it doesn't think the use of grid girls reflects well on the Silverstone band as host venue for Formula 1.

It's not really up to Silverstone to tell other brands what they should and should not do to promote themselves. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of those brands also have a bit of a think given that they are now also living in a world where sponsorship and purchase decisions are not necessarily made by an older bloke who likes simpering totty.

Well if that is true they are also as hypocritical and looking for a cheap soundbite to give to the the press.

[RP London]

Just now, Mattrhino said:

But companies will always use good looking people to represent thier brand. It is not a new thing nor does this spell the end to the pratice. 

No one wants to see a fat middle aged balding man.

no they dont... but nor, obivoulsy, are people wanting to have "good looking people" just flaunted at them for no descernable reason anymore. In the same way as at exhibitions and in promo girls you dont get "good looking girls" who cannot talk about the brand (from my experience) as that is not a good image for the brand either.. 

its all about the perception of the grid girl and what their purpose is.. 

 

[Mattrhino]

Just now, Spidey said:

So I’m being discriminated out of a job. Thanks ?

Exactly, where is the public outrage for us overweight, beer bellied white middle aged men and our struggles haha