TWP - Argyle talking philosophic approach.

[Copa]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

They haven't done anything of note yet

Starting a pro team with decent crowds in Toronto isn’t worthy of mention then?

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, RayCee said:

This man has no place in RL. Really, what next! 

Yeah ambition really is an awful thing.

[Pulga]

4 hours ago, Futtocks said:

An Argyle interview will be on 5 Live Sports Extra at half time this evening.

Is there a link to it?

[Yorkshire Knight]

8 hours ago, Copa said:

Starting a pro team with decent crowds in Toronto isn’t worthy of mention then?

All that was needed to be said about that has been said already including due praise. We're past that stage now if you haven't noticed. We're now up to the part where the Australian owner reveals his grand plan to take over the world. Exaggerations aside, to me it sounds like nothing I haven't heard before especially from Australians. We hear it time and time again from Australian sporting bodies. However I think the problem they have is that they don't know how it all works. Australia isn't the world. What works in Australia won't work elsewhere as the AFL found out 

[DoubleD]

4 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

All that was needed to be said about that has been said already including due praise. We're past that stage now if you haven't noticed. We're now up to the part where the Australian owner reveals his grand plan to take over the world. Exaggerations aside, to me it sounds like nothing I haven't heard before especially from Australians. We hear it time and time again from Australian sporting bodies. However I think the problem they have is that they don't know how it all works. Australia isn't the world. What works in Australia won't work elsewhere as the AFL found out 

You do realise Toronto isn’t in Australia right? 

I’m pretty sure Argyle has figured that one out

[Yorkshire Knight]

3 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

You do realise Toronto isn’t in Australia right? 

I’m pretty sure Argyle has figured that one out

I didn't state otherwise did I?

Point I'm making is he's talking about these ambitious plans which are good and all, but they're just words at this stage and don't warrant praise. AFL was meant to take over China recently and the NRL was meant to dethrone union in NZ. If you can't see the parallels then I don't know what to tell you. But anyway, it's these sort of events which made me realise that most Australians don't have a clue

[Lowdesert]

10 hours ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Just saying, it's getting tiresome seeing people give TWP unwarranted praise. They haven't done anything of note yet and all the talk of doing this and doing that is just talk at this stage 

Putting a team together to compete at SL level is quite a feat in itself.  The way the club are marketing themselves and looking at an holistic approach, including tourism now - see their advertising at half time last night? - is refreshing.

We can learn from these approaches, including Catalans and whoever else enters our leagues.  Belgrade included.  If our Leaders, and other Clubs don’t want to learn then they will be passed by and left on the shelf.  Rightly, imo.  

[DoubleD]

4 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I didn't state otherwise did I?

Point I'm making is he's talking about these ambitious plans which are good and all, but they're just words at this stage and don't warrant praise. AFL was meant to take over China recently and the NRL was meant to dethrone union in NZ. If you can't see the parallels then I don't know what to tell you. But anyway, it's these sort of events which made me realise that most Australians don't have a clue

I’m sure Mr Argyle will value your in depth and highly thought out input, although you’d forgive him and others for thinking that it is yourself who doesn’t have a clue

[Yorkshire Knight]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Putting a team together to compete at SL level is quite a feat in itself.  The way the club are marketing themselves and looking at an holistic approach, including tourism now - see their advertising at half time last night? - is refreshing.

We can learn from these approaches, including Catalans and whoever else enters our leagues.  Belgrade included.  If our Leaders, and other Clubs don’t want to learn then they will be passed by and left on the shelf.  Rightly, imo.  

They're a team made up of Aussies and Brits. It's no different to Man City buying all the good players to win titles. In the case of rugby however, local development plan will be far more beneficial to the sport in the long run. Their marketing is a neat touch I must admit 

[Yorkshire Knight]

1 minute ago, DoubleD said:

I’m sure Mr Argyle will value your in depth and highly thought out input, although you’d forgive him and others for thinking that it is yourself who doesn’t have a clue

I'm sure he will. Perhaps we can talk about how we can develop the sport which will be beneficial long term instead of thinking that the sport is going to take over in foreign markets after locals see one game 

[DoubleD]

1 minute ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I'm sure he will. Perhaps we can talk about how we can develop the sport which will be beneficial long term instead of thinking that the sport is going to take over in foreign markets after locals see one game 

Which sport are you looking to develop though

[Yorkshire Knight]

4 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Which sport are you looking to develop though

Am I meant to answer that? 

[Lowdesert]

Just now, Yorkshire Knight said:

They're a team made up of Aussies and Brits. It's no different to Man City buying all the good players to win titles. In the case of rugby however, local development plan will be far more beneficial to the sport in the long run. Their marketing is a neat touch I must admit 

As a team, there actually doing better than I expected.  Rarely have they signed a big headliner, more usually players who were coming to the end of their career, not ready yet SL or problem players who can’t work out whether to put effort in day after day.  

I seem to think they are putting local development in focus.  Seem to remember some Canadian supporters mentioning on here.  Hey, let’s face it, our clubs, on the whol, haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory developing their communities and they’ve had a lot of time to do it.  Should we follow Salford’s model?  I witnessed 1st hand HKRs.  Fortunately for the club they saw the light and grabbed the amalgamation branch.  Barring the Foundation that are doing good work now, what have York done?  Acorn are in decline, Heworth are a shadow of what they were, All Blacks?  Have the Kneets done shedloads of work to assist the Loco’s?

When we look at what a lot of clubs have done in the communities, to develop players, it doesn’t paint a tidy picture.  We know most are skint, but for a long time they had the help of DO, LA, Sports Council grants etc etc and couldn’t be bothered.  Might be we can learn from Catalans or how TWP go on, we’ll see.  New ways should be always welcome.

 

[Yorkshire Knight]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

As a team, there actually doing better than I expected.  Rarely have they signed a big headliner, more usually players who were coming to the end of their career, not ready yet SL or problem players who can’t work out whether to put effort in day after day.  

I seem to think they are putting local development in focus.  Seem to remember some Canadian supporters mentioning on here.  Hey, let’s face it, our clubs, on the whol, haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory developing their communities and they’ve had a lot of time to do it.  Should we follow Salford’s model?  I witnessed 1st hand HKRs.  Fortunately for the club they saw the light and grabbed the amalgamation branch.  Barring the Foundation that are doing good work now, what have York done?  Acorn are in decline, Heworth are a shadow of what they were, All Blacks?  Have the Kneets done shedloads of work to assist the Loco’s?

When we look at what a lot of clubs have done in the communities, to develop players, it doesn’t paint a tidy picture.  We know most are skint, but for a long time they had the help of DO, LA, Sports Council grants etc etc and couldn’t be bothered.  Might be we can learn from Catalans or how TWP go on, we’ll see.  New ways should be always welcome.

 

You don't need big names to compete in the Championship, just decent players so whether or not they've signed big players is irrelevant, the point is that they're made up of Aussies and Brits which is not entirely a negative but it would be good to see local development 

[Futtocks]

9 hours ago, Pulga said:

Is there a link to it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000l6j

The programme star.ted at 7pm and the first half kicked off at 7:45pm, so you can more or less calculate the half time from that

[Copa]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

We're now up to the part where the Australian owner reveals his grand plan to take over the world.

There are a dozen owners. Only one is not Canadian.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Putting a team together to compete at SL level is quite a feat in itself.  The way the club are marketing themselves and looking at an holistic approach, including tourism now - see their advertising at half time last night? - is refreshing.

We can learn from these approaches, including Catalans and whoever else enters our leagues.  Belgrade included.  If our Leaders, and other Clubs don’t want to learn then they will be passed by and left on the shelf.  Rightly, imo.  

Well we will have to see if they can actually do that, they have put a team together to very probably gain promotion, I somewhat doubt that roster they have presently would be sufficient to compete at SL level, I see big changes on the way before next season starts if they are to be competitive.

[Marty Funkhouser]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

As a team, there actually doing better than I expected.  Rarely have they signed a big headliner, more usually players who were coming to the end of their career, not ready yet SL or problem players who can’t work out whether to put effort in day after day.  

I seem to think they are putting local development in focus.  Seem to remember some Canadian supporters mentioning on here.  Hey, let’s face it, our clubs, on the whol, haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory developing their communities and they’ve had a lot of time to do it.  Should we follow Salford’s model?  I witnessed 1st hand HKRs.  Fortunately for the club they saw the light and grabbed the amalgamation branch.  Barring the Foundation that are doing good work now, what have York done?  Acorn are in decline, Heworth are a shadow of what they were, All Blacks?  Have the Kneets done shedloads of work to assist the Loco’s?

When we look at what a lot of clubs have done in the communities, to develop players, it doesn’t paint a tidy picture.  We know most are skint, but for a long time they had the help of DO, LA, Sports Council grants etc etc and couldn’t be bothered.  Might be we can learn from Catalans or how TWP go on, we’ll see.  New ways should be always welcome.

 

"saw the light"..??? They and Hull FC have halved the potential professional playing pool in one stroke and moved the academy (for young , generally working class participants) 15 miles out of the city , this in a world hotbed of RL .  It was purely financial motivation from the owners and restricts rather than promotes involvement in the pro game..sure its a boon for the owners saving money and the people now getting a good living out of it and they will beat the self interested drum accordingly but it is not "progress" and has not seen any improved or different results (playing or player wise)to the prior separate academies or even colts teams of yesteryear. It appears its aim is to produce a line of  homogenised players who might meet a minimum standard . This is no surprise having seen some of the "new" coaching techniques involved despite one of the stated reasons for the "amalgamation" was to be able to fund world class coaching. This is before (or likely  if ) the day comes when a true top class talent or two emerges or is allowed to emerge and the subsequent squabbling between the two clubs starts...

 The TWP approach is awaited with interest but the scepticism is heavy.

[TboneFromTO]

24 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well we will have to see if they can actually do that, they have put a team together to very probably gain promotion, I somewhat doubt that roster they have presently would be sufficient to compete at SL level, I see big changes on the way before next season starts if they are to be competitive.

Of course there will be big changes. Every team makes big changes when they get promoted.  Leeds hkr and Salford need to make big changes if they want to be competitive next season too!

I'm still waiting for the "struggle" of competing, we beat half the super league teams in the qualifiers.  There hasn't been any real competition for them yet, I mean this time last year lots of people were shouting "you won't have that record in the championship". But here we are sitting at 50 - 7 - 2 lifetime.

At this rate I should put a 5er on Toronto to win the grand final next year!

 

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Of course there will be big changes. Every team makes big changes when they get promoted.  Leeds hkr and Salford need to make big changes if they want to be competitive next season too!

I'm still waiting for the "struggle" of competing, we beat half the super league teams in the qualifiers.  There hasn't been any real competition for them yet, I mean this time last year lots of people were shouting "you won't have that record in the championship". But here we are sitting at 50 - 7 - 2 lifetime.

At this rate I should put a 5er on Toronto to win the grand final next year!

 

Well they may just do, but within the SC that would be doubtful, basically the squad they have was surplus to other SL teams requirements, they will have to ditch and spend a lot including for me their two half backs especially McCrone, and virtually a new pack is required.

[Whippet13]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/06/toronto-wolfpack-rugby-league-europe-cities-million-pound-game

A little more information on Arglye's plans, the player development idea seems to be that there is already a "rugby" structure so they will use that to identify potential League players. I understand he has taken a share in Skolars so perhaps the plan is to place them there whilst they develop. I can see the offer of living in London and geting paid to play rugby for a couple of years with the prospect of a long term career appealing to young Canadian RU players.

[TboneFromTO]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well they may just do, but within the SC that would be doubtful, basically the squad they have was surplus to other SL teams requirements, they will have to ditch and spend a lot including for me their two half backs especially McCrone, and virtually a new pack is required.

I think you'll find with promotion Toronto will become a very attractive team for players. I don't think they will have any problems finding the replacements they'll need/want. 

My only fear is that what everyone on here says about Rowley turns out to be true, and we dont perform well.  I like him but there's alot of hate for him!

[Manxmanc]

4 hours ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I didn't state otherwise did I?

Point I'm making is he's talking about these ambitious plans which are good and all, but they're just words at this stage and don't warrant praise. AFL was meant to take over China recently and the NRL was meant to dethrone union in NZ. If you can't see the parallels then I don't know what to tell you. But anyway, it's these sort of events which made me realise that most Australians don't have a clue

I think you've probably answered this yourself. "...but they're just words at this stage and don't warrant praise." is preceded by "...ambitious plans which are good...".                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          An opinion can be give about plans, but clearly not about what will have happened at a future time - as you suggest.

[Lowdesert]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well we will have to see if they can actually do that, they have put a team together to very probably gain promotion, I somewhat doubt that roster they have presently would be sufficient to compete at SL level, I see big changes on the way before next season starts if they are to be competitive.

Yes, indeed.  But they have already beaten SL opposition, so they’re competitive with lower end.  I doubt they will do that so regular if that team stays the same plus, the depth of quality and numbers is too shallow imo and yours, it seems.  No comment on the coach Harry

Thus season, they have had a fair bit of disruption and if Taylor et al, hadn’t been so daft, we quite easily could have seen another SL club in the MPG.

 

[Lowdesert]

5 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

"saw the light"..??? They and Hull FC have halved the potential professional playing pool in one stroke and moved the academy (for young , generally working class participants) 15 miles out of the city , this in a world hotbed of RL .  It was purely financial motivation from the owners and restricts rather than promotes involvement in the pro game..sure its a boon for the owners saving money and the people now getting a good living out of it and they will beat the self interested drum accordingly but it is not "progress" and has not seen any improved or different results (playing or player wise)to the prior separate academies or even colts teams of yesteryear. It appears its aim is to produce a line of  homogenised players who might meet a minimum standard . This is no surprise having seen some of the "new" coaching techniques involved despite one of the stated reasons for the "amalgamation" was to be able to fund world class coaching. This is before (or likely  if ) the day comes when a true top class talent or two emerges or is allowed to emerge and the subsequent squabbling between the two clubs starts...

 The TWP approach is awaited with interest but the scepticism is heavy.

HKR academy was a shambles.  They weren’t allocating sufficient funds into it or resources.  Good young lads left and we’re leaving.  It’s arguable that they have halved it.  The idea being, seeing that a small percentage ever make it, group the best and pick from it, not just cost cutting.  What is your point?  

The opportunity to amalgamate and have 1 academy was an easy option.  It didn’t include Archbishop Sentamu for education but Bishop Burton college.  Excellent facilities.  Far better than both clubs had and a short drive down the by pass.

Hull is not a hotbed of world RL.  If it was, it is not anymore.  The people who formed and supported the community leagues are not involved any more, the LA funded development officer isn’t there anymore, the RL DOs aren’t.  The CC leagues participation aren’t what they were either.  What we have is a few select Pro Club/College/School partnerships and Foundations trying to catch up the void of a good few years foot off the gas recruitment and funding cuts.  Parkyesque style quote but not far from the truth, unfortunately.

The TWP approach has been happening for a couple of years and the optimism in Canada seems to be 100%.  Whether individuals in the UK are sceptical won’t mean a jot to them.