Brits in the NRL

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

to keep harping on about metres, well stick him in the pack that maybe more useful. 

Do you watch Rugby League?

We may not like it but modern day Rugby sees the wingers often toping the ball carrying stats as it is a key part of their role.  Measuring someone on one of their key responsibilities is just sensible.

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

How did Thompson go this morning?

He did well.  Worked hard and ran strongly.

I'm not sure why but he only played 47 minutes which seems strange as he has a massive engine and could easily do more and for me he would be even better with longer minutes.

[jim_57]

Does anyone know if Harry Grant is eligible for England? I'm sure I remember seeing somewhere that he was but can't find anything to confirm it, may have just been my imagination.

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Do you watch Rugby League?

We may not like it but modern day Rugby sees the wingers often toping the ball carrying stats as it is a key part of their role.  Measuring someone on one of their key responsibilities is just sensible.

Do I watch the game,? 

I say this first I like Ryan Hall he has been one of best wingers in the last 15 years but he is a pale shadow of his former self. And I can see he's trying but ultimately you are judged on what you do. And he is not even looking like scoring and even though he is always available to take the early drives after a kick, you expect more of a veteran international standard winger playing in a top 4 side. 

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Do I watch the game,? 

I say this first I like Ryan Hall he has been one of best wingers in the last 15 years but he is a pale shadow of his former self. And I can see he's trying but ultimately you are judged on what you do. And he is not even looking like scoring and even though he is always available to take the early drives after a kick, you expect more of a veteran international standard winger playing in a top 4 side. 

My point was in response to your 'stick him in the pack' comment when discussing his running metres.

When you look at the NRL this year, 9 of the top 20 metre makers are wingers.  This is critical part of their game now and none of the second rows in the comp even come close to the top 20

I agree that Hall is not the dangerous winger he once but the game has evolved to the point now where wingers work harder with the ball and the centres and edge back rowers are the strike weapons.  In this specific part of his game, Hall is still performing well and I don't think this should simply be dismissed as a consideration.

[DoubleD]

14 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Do I watch the game,? 

I say this first I like Ryan Hall he has been one of best wingers in the last 15 years but he is a pale shadow of his former self. And I can see he's trying but ultimately you are judged on what you do. And he is not even looking like scoring and even though he is always available to take the early drives after a kick, you expect more of a veteran international standard winger playing in a top 4 side. 

I agree with what you’re saying. However to play devil’s advocate, Blake Ferguson is also try-less this year, playing in a dominant Eels side, who play fantastic expansive footy. 

[DoubleD]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

He did well.  Worked hard and ran strongly.

I'm not sure why but he only played 47 minutes which seems strange as he has a massive engine and could easily do more and for me he would be even better with longer minutes.

Yeah I thought it was strange he played so few minutes. Was strong again though. 

It was an enjoyable game. In the match up of the 2 Kiwi stand offs between the master and the apprentice, Foran was at his sublime best, whilst Dylan Brown was noticeably quiet. I love watching Foran play the game, he’s a general in the park (in the Thurston mould) but often isn’t appreciated. You only need to look at the Bulldogs performances with and without him to see his impact. Last year, their form turned as soon as he was back. It’s a shame his injuries and off field battles have overshadowed his on field performances, but I for one relish it when he plays. 

Interesting that the Knights are after him. I’m not sure if him and Pearce would work as a halves partnership, with them both being generals but if they can click, with Ponga out the pack, then the Knights could be genuine challengers next year 

Edited August 2, 2020 by DoubleD

[dkw]

2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

He did well.  Worked hard and ran strongly.

I'm not sure why but he only played 47 minutes which seems strange as he has a massive engine and could easily do more and for me he would be even better with longer minutes.

It has been the same in all his games, it looks to me like a pre season type fitness programme for him to get him match fit, all his minutes are to a design as he is weeks/months behind the rest in readiness.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

It has been the same in all his games, it looks to me like a pre season type fitness programme for him to get him match fit, all his minutes are to a design as he is weeks/months behind the rest in readiness.

Maybe so.  He looks in good shape to me though and he is four matches in now.

In his first game against the Broncos he did 60 minutes and then 64 against the Dragons in round 10 and yet since then he has done 52 (against the Knights) and 47 today.  His minutes are going down not up and this implies they want to play him a certain way rather than gradually introduce him.

[dkw]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Maybe so.  He looks in good shape to me though and he is four matches in now.

In his first game against the Broncos he did 60 minutes and then 64 against the Dragons in round 10 and yet since then he has done 52 (against the Knights) and 47 today.  His minutes are going down not up and this implies they want to play him a certain way rather than gradually introduce him.

I suppose we will only know if its different when we equate those minutes to the other forwards on the teams. Do you have those too?

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

I suppose we will only know if its different when we equate those minutes to the other forwards on the teams. Do you have those too?

Here are the three starting middle forwards for the Bulldogs for the last 4 rounds:

Aiden Toleman 

Round 9: 55 mins

Round 10: 52 mins

Round 11: 65 mins

Round 12: 68 mins

Dylan Napa

 

Round 9: 54 mins

Round 10: 58 mins

Round 11: 50 mins

Round 12: 62 mins

Luke Thompson

Round 9: 60 mins

Round 10: 64 mins

Round 11: 52 mins

Round 12: 47 mins

 

Seems like there is a deliberate shift to give Toleman more minutes in the last couple of rounds and Napa this round.  Maybe the new coach wants to use Thompson as more of an impact runner and so reducing his minutes to keep him fresh.  Giving his starting front rowers more minutes will allow him to use Thompson and his bench with more impact I guess.  Overall though I really like Thompson when he plays a lot of minutes.

[barnyia]

Thompson does a lot of work but seems to always be the support runner to another forward and second or third man into the tackle. 

Tough work but the aussies don't seem to have 3 to 4 players in the tackle and all his tackles seem to finish with him around the legs, in the early games it was like he was pacing himself, maybe the new coach has noticed that and told him to do more in shorter stints. When he does take the ball  up he runs very hard and often wins the tackle and gets a quick play the ball

Edited August 2, 2020 by barnyia

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

I agree with what you’re saying. However to play devil’s advocate, Blake Ferguson is also try-less this year, playing in a dominant Eels side, who play fantastic expansive footy. 

As well as Blake Ferguson not scoring yet this year, David Fusitu'a at the Warriors, Reuben Garrick at Manly, Jordan Pereira at St George and Jordan Rapana at the Raiders have all only bagged one try each and yet they have all contributed to their teams performances this year and one the measures used to quantify this contribution is their ball carries and their running metres. 

I have been consistent in this conversation around Hall.  He is not electric and not the winger he was but he is contributing to the Roosters performances in one of the key ways in which we measure a wingers game in the modern era.  This should not be dismissed as I can guarantee his coach is looking at it.

[Dunbar]

So, at the end of the round I thought it was a pretty good week overall for the Brits.

Despite losses, I thought Farnworth was one of the Broncos best (and an improved Broncos performance overall) and Thompson did well for the Bulldogs although I would like to see him get more game time.

Burgess continued his strong form for the Rabbitohs and he is a real pack leader now.

The four Raiders all played well and Bateman looked like he had never been away... he doesn't believe in easing himself into anything does he.

Oh, and Ryan Hall played as well. I have no thoughts on that.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Dunbar

[DoubleD]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

As well as Blake Ferguson not scoring yet this year, David Fusitu'a at the Warriors, Reuben Garrick at Manly, Jordan Pereira at St George and Jordan Rapana at the Raiders have all only bagged one try each and yet they have all contributed to their teams performances this year and one the measures used to quantify this contribution is their ball carries and their running metres. 

I have been consistent in this conversation around Hall.  He is not electric and not the winger he was but he is contributing to the Roosters performances in one of the key ways in which we measure a wingers game in the modern era.  This should not be dismissed as I can guarantee his coach is looking at it.

In fairness to the other wingers you’ve mentioned, Garrick is the only one who’s played regularly this year. 

As I pointed out though, it’s his defensive frailties which have been a bigger concern for me (if I was his coach)

[DavidM]

Seriously , Ryan Hall looked like someone who’d won a competition to play with an NRL team for the day . He basically watched the game going on and when it came near him looked way slower than everyone else . Herbie Goes Bananas gets better n better and is gonna be a big asset for us for years ,the Canberra pom mafia all did great ... and I’ve not watched Thompson yet

Edited August 3, 2020 by DavidM

[Dunbar]

22 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Ryan Hall looked like someone who’d won a competition to play with an NRL team for the day

Imagine winning a competition to play on the wing with an NRL team for the day and then being told that Sitili Tupouniua was going to be your centre.  Would be some anticlimax. 

[DavidM]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Imagine winning a competition to play on the wing with an NRL team for the day and then being told that Sitili Tupouniua was going to be your centre.  Would be some anticlimax. 

I’m not sure having Mark Gasnier as a centre would do that much for him now 

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, DavidM said:

I’m not sure having Mark Gasnier as a centre would do that much for him now 

Maybe not.  But Justin Holbrook is a canny coach and he knew that Sitili Tupouniua in the centre and Nat Butcher who is normally a middle forward defending on the left edge would be a real weakness defensively.  Not because they are bad players but they are simply not that experienced defending in these positions.  It's why the Titans shifted the ball so much early in the game and had a lot of success coming down their right side.

[DavidM]

Strongest stint yet from Thompson there . Good involvement and good impact . And good ear clean out 

[Dunbar]

12 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Strongest stint yet from Thompson there . Good involvement and good impact . And good ear clean out 

What do you make of him getting less game time?  Are they looking at him more of an impact player you think, as Saints had him as a prop who could do a lot of minutes.

[DavidM]

30 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

What do you make of him getting less game time?  Are they looking at him more of an impact player you think, as Saints had him as a prop who could do a lot of minutes.

His first stint was strong , but while he was off the Bulldogs got on a roll and attained some ascendancy , so maybe Georgallis just wanted to go with that . He was off until in the final quarter though which I did think was a big spell . Overall I don’t mind him being used in two stints if he’s gonna have more involvement with his hit ups which are his main strength , and have a dynamic impact . How long he’s spelled is something else , personally I don’t think he needs a big break as he can have a big impact while playing long minutes . I guess though it’s different over there from dominating here , so it’ll take time for them to work out the best use of him . It’s early days and both he and the Dogs are still getting used to each other 

[arcticchris]

On 02/08/2020 at 15:29, Dunbar said:

As well as Blake Ferguson not scoring yet this year, David Fusitu'a at the Warriors, Reuben Garrick at Manly, Jordan Pereira at St George and Jordan Rapana at the Raiders have all only bagged one try each and yet they have all contributed to their teams performances this year and one the measures used to quantify this contribution is their ball carries and their running metres. 

I have been consistent in this conversation around Hall.  He is not electric and not the winger he was but he is contributing to the Roosters performances in one of the key ways in which we measure a wingers game in the modern era.  This should not be dismissed as I can guarantee his coach is looking at it.

I think a factor here is that either the faster ruck  speed the centres are getting better quality early ball than before and strike centres like Joey Manu, Bradman Best, Stephen Crichton, Michael Jennings and Zac Lomax are thriving.

 

We are witnessing the rebirth of centre play after a decade where it was probably the weakest position on the pitch globally.

 

This has come at the expense of the extra pass feeding their winger hence the low number cited in the post I have quoted.

[Davo5]

20 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Imagine winning a competition to play on the wing with an NRL team for the day and then being told that Sitili Tupouniua was going to be your centre.  Would be some anticlimax. 

Got to feel sorry for Hall,he's been starved of quality ball and against the Titans was regularly left facing 2&3 attackers.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

On 02/08/2020 at 15:13, barnyia said:

Thompson does a lot of work but seems to always be the support runner to another forward and second or third man into the tackle. 

Tough work but the aussies don't seem to have 3 to 4 players in the tackle and all his tackles seem to finish with him around the legs, in the early games it was like he was pacing himself, maybe the new coach has noticed that and told him to do more in shorter stints. When he does take the ball  up he runs very hard and often wins the tackle and gets a quick play the ball

Yep these are pretty much my observations too. Think he needs to work on his one on one tackling. He's struggling a bit with the footwork of some of these NRL forwards IMO - I don't remember him being the first man in against Paulo or RCG at any stage of the game. As you rightly point out mainly coming in as 2nd/3rd man, which is why tackle numbers in RL are always a bit misleading. Not too worried at the moment at the decreasing game time as it most likely is just a realisation his fitness is a bit off for the style he plays. His running game has been strongest so far and if that means him doing a bit less in defence to save himself then that might be the strategy they're going for.