Jump to content
Total Rugby League Fans Forum
Sign in to follow this  
dkw

Widnes problems

Recommended Posts

The £10k rent is the one I'm struggling with - doesn't seem a lot in the grand scheme of things, but then why do Widnes owe circa £350k to the council?  That's three years rent - must be more to it, things just don't add up (from my simple way of looking at things)

Also, interesting to know if the £120k wage bill includes the outgoing directors which could be (if rumours are true) £30k-£40k per month

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The £10k rent is the one I'm struggling with - doesn't seem a lot in the grand scheme of things, but then why do Widnes owe circa £350k to the council?  That's three years rent - must be more to it, things just don't add up (from my simple way of looking at things)

Also, interesting to know if the £120k wage bill includes the outgoing directors which could be (if rumours are true) £30k-£40k per month

Good points. It might be the council were a soft touch of there is a clause to reduce the rent in the event of relegation, i.e. commensurate with reduced income streams.

Even if you boot the directors and assume new management will run it part time for free and then get rid of, say Gelling and Inu - you might still be looking at £60k per month.

They still can't even afford that. 

Seems like these new investors are the key. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is highly unusual for a sports business the size of Widnes to have paid directors , yes if one was taking on the role of CEO/General manager , but normally the board will consist of one or more actually putting the cash in , quite often a soliciter who will work mostly free [ with perhaps some modest costs ] and a financial position [ again unpaid ] who will oversee the cash flow and other issues , ie the actual managing of the staff at the club

Anything over a £100K salary for a CEO at that level is extortianate

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spidey said:

The £10k rent is the one I'm struggling with - doesn't seem a lot in the grand scheme of things, but then why do Widnes owe circa £350k to the council?  That's three years rent - must be more to it, things just don't add up (from my simple way of looking at things)

Also, interesting to know if the £120k wage bill includes the outgoing directors which could be (if rumours are true) £30k-£40k per month

Rent may be one thing, there may be other costs for policing, stewarding etc

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It is highly unusual for a sports business the size of Widnes to have paid directors , yes if one was taking on the role of CEO/General manager , but normally the board will consist of one or more actually putting the cash in , quite often a soliciter who will work mostly free [ with perhaps some modest costs ] and a financial position [ again unpaid ] who will oversee the cash flow and other issues , ie the actual managing of the staff at the club

Anything over a £100K salary for a CEO at that level is extortianate

I would like to then see how the IP views that and any report into their conduct, given they would have been paid in preference to other obligations.

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't know about Hull - but I understand there have been issues with Rule before.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

It's no way to fun a business when you have to negotiate with a complete out side body.

A club has to negociate with plenty of ' outside bodies ' , Sponsors , corporate , advertisers , players agents , players , councils , so what is the difference ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Anything over a £100K salary for a CEO at that level is extortianate

If comments made by some people associated with the club are correct, salaries for three directors came to around £450k. I'm fairly skeptical on that, just because they'd have been better off taking money out of the club as dividends rather than paying 45% income tax.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, JonM said:

If comments made by some people associated with the club are correct, salaries for three directors came to around £450k. I'm fairly skeptical on that, just because they'd have been better off taking money out of the club as dividends rather than paying 45% income tax.

As I stated , generally you only have 1 paid director at a business at that level , I really dont understand what 2 others could have been doing for their money ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JonM said:

If comments made by some people associated with the club are correct, salaries for three directors came to around £450k. I'm fairly skeptical on that, just because they'd have been better off taking money out of the club as dividends rather than paying 45% income tax.

 

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

As I stated , generally you only have 1 paid director at a business at that level , I really dont understand what 2 others could have been doing for their money ?

Could this be less a case of proper 'Directors' and more senior management roles with Director in the title? Like Director of Rugby, Commercial Director, plus CEO?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, JonM said:

If comments made by some people associated with the club are correct, salaries for three directors came to around £450k. I'm fairly skeptical on that, just because they'd have been better off taking money out of the club as dividends rather than paying 45% income tax.

Well, if true - that will bleed a club dry.

Nov 10 B/S deficiency £300k

Nov 11 B/S deficiency £500k

Nov 12 B/S deficiency £900k

Nov 13 B/S deficiency £1.4m

Nov 14 B/S deficiency £1.2m

Nov 15 B/S deficiency £1.4m

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06414112/filing-history

Snedden, Beech, O'Connor and Rule appointed as Directors in July 2013 and seems allotted shares about the same time.

So - to be fair - by Nov 13 they were already running a balance sheet deficit about the same as that at Nov 17 (the last filed accounts).

Of course that doesn't mean that they might not have taken salaries that impacted upon squad funds without making things worse, but the problems seem to have been there already. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The accounts seem to show the new shares were purchased for their nominal value, i.e. £1 each. So £1,000 in total.

They weren't putting in money via shares.

I would wonder if the £370k alleged written off is unpaid salaries and not money put in?

All speculation though with no basis.

The above shows they certainly don't seem to have come in and paid of the debts that were around in 2012/2013 (unless they funded running costs), so it is hard to see where any "investment" came from.

Edited by Leonard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

A club has to negociate with plenty of ' outside bodies ' , Sponsors , corporate , advertisers , players agents , players , councils , so what is the difference ?

The sponsors give over the money and it's up to the club to spend as they want for one thing. The club have worked to attract the sponsors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think to publicly Tweet Widnes like that, instead of either phoning or e mailing the Club, was an insensitive thing to do.

Although I liked one of the reply's which said "We have 10 year olds giving their pocket money to save the Club, it seems Fev have a 10 year old in charge of their Social Media"!   ?

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Widnes - Cheshire's Original Glamour Club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah clearly they are not happy with the lack of info.......a quick look on twitter tells you if there's no takeover today then the game is off so there's a deadline to work to.

the fact that they've put a grumpy emoji on there though ?


england_identity2.jpg1921_button.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bomb Jack said:

I think to publicly Tweet Widnes like that, instead of either phoning or e mailing the Club, was an insensitive thing to do.

Although I liked one of the reply's which said "We have 10 year olds giving their pocket money to save the Club, it seems Fev have a 10 year old in charge of their Social Media"!   ?

You would hope they tried ringing before sending that out


england_identity2.jpg1921_button.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have sympathy for the Widnes situation but that doesn't excuse the lack of communication here. If they can't get a game on at the moment I fully understand but they really should be confirming it one way or another by now.

I know it's in the hands of the administrators now but surely someone has to make a decision eventually.

Edited by fevtom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, fevtom said:

I have sympathy for the Widnes situation but that doesn't excuse the lack of communication here.

Seems like they're a bit busy dealing with the people who're losing their jobs at the moment.

Wigan managed to have our 2017 home fixture with them moved forward a few months at a few hours notice, so I expect Fev fans can hang on a couple more hours to see whether the game is on. I'd assume it's likely to be off if there's no white smoke in the next couple of hours.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

You would hope they tried ringing before sending that out

You would hope that James Rule didn't take the phones with him.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Sheffield game was officially delayed last thursday morning......presumable after discussions earlier in the week with the RFL and Sheffield.....the tweet is insensitive but i assume it's gone out because the club aren't being told anything.......which is hard to understand.

i've seen on twitter Mat Shaw saying if there's no takeover today then it's off so fev should have been informed of that at least


england_identity2.jpg1921_button.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

Could this be less a case of proper 'Directors' and more senior management roles with Director in the title? Like Director of Rugby, Commercial Director, plus CEO?

As I put Dave , apart from a CEO , I cannot imagine what anybody else at a club the size of Widnes could have been doing to command anything over a £ 40 K salary , and unlikely they would be classed as directors , if they were getting the figures suggested , then given Widnes's obvious lack of off field performance , they werent earning it

Edited by GUBRATS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bomb Jack said:

I think to publicly Tweet Widnes like that, instead of either phoning or e mailing the Club, was an insensitive thing to do.

Although I liked one of the reply's which said "We have 10 year olds giving their pocket money to save the Club, it seems Fev have a 10 year old in charge of their Social Media"!   ?

  I've seen that the Widnes fans have taken umbrage to the tweet,but I took it as the Featherstone club responding to their supporters and trying to keep them in the loop - before,perhaps,they take time off work or book transport to a game which may be postponed;at best.Or letting their players know by the quickest means.

 I understand the tense feelings at the moment but I don't think Featherstone are the bad guys they are being made out to be.

  

  • Like 3

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

The sponsors give over the money and it's up to the club to spend as they want for one thing. The club have worked to attract the sponsors.

Irrelivant really , I would be guessing but essentially VIQI will sit on the money [ but probably inform the club how much they have ] until the club [ or whoever is deemed with running the club ] request funds off them , the committee of VIQI will then either accept the request or not as is their perogative [ normally it would be a positive response , but in this situation it might not be ]  , but ultimatly the money will find its way to the club , as that is what it has been donated for

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Angelic Cynic said:

  I've seen that the Widnes fans have taken umbrage to the tweet,but I took it as the Featherstone club responding to their supporters and trying to keep them in the loop - before,perhaps,they take time off work or book transport to a game which may be postponed;at best.Or letting their players know by the quickest means.

 I understand the tense feelings at the moment but I don't think Featherstone are the bad guys they are being made out to be.

  

Quite correct. The only frustration is with (and with good reason) the fans of both clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...