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Swinton (Merged Threads)

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1 minute ago, Bleep1673 said:

Maybe they did some market research among residents of Manchester, and realised that the overall number of Mancunians was not going to cover the Swintonians who would walk away, and this isn't about holding the sport back, or holding on to the past, how would Castleford fans react to being called Wakefield Tigers, because that's the Met Borough they play in?, Or Leigh fans to being called Wigan Centurions, Halifax being called Calderdale, Bradford Cougars instead of Keighley, Allerdale Town, Workington fans? Copeland, Haven fans, or maybe merge the two, Copedale.

As St Helens is in Merseyside, maybe they could move to Liverpool, and be their franchise the RFL wants there?

But Cas still play in Cas , Leigh still play in Leigh , Fax in Fax and so on 

 

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11 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Just build a stadium in Swinton already..

OOH! That's a new idea. Maybe the planning committee of SALFORD City Council will be able to tell you how many applications they turned down from various Swinton boards, and then accepted first and only application from the Reds for Barton.


Sex and Money are like Oxygen

They're not important until you're not getting enough.

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1 minute ago, Bleep1673 said:

OOH! That's a new idea. Maybe the planning committee of SALFORD City Council will be able to tell you how many applications they turned down from various Swinton boards, and then accepted first and only application from the Reds for Barton.

What applications have they turned down and why? Have Swinton ever come close to buying land to build a stadium in Swinton?

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Just now, Damien said:

What applications have they turned down and why? Have Swinton ever come close to buying land to build a stadium in Swinton?

Yes.


Sex and Money are like Oxygen

They're not important until you're not getting enough.

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Keep things as they are and Swinton will struggle to exist. Its as simple as that. Swinton has no ties to the Swinton area and hasnt had for decades. Its a Club that has around 500 fans who are mainly over 40 years old. Its a Club in its current structure, dieing a slow death. The Club, like the rest in the lower League has to change and make some harsh decsions which will upset fans who live on emotion, but not reality. Swinton fans have probably killed off "Swinton" with the short sightedness, as who will pay for Swinton to keep alive now? What future does "Swinton" have? The reality is it will struggle to survive, like most in the future outside of SL.

Changing the name to "Manchester" would not change anything, same as changing Halifax to Calderdale, Keighley to Bradford Cougars etc would change them clubs in a positive way. But if marketed properly and done in a way that combines the Old Supporter and Sponsor base with the new , then it could be a success. In Swintons case, it possibly would help the club maybe to bring in more or bigger sponsorship, thus giving the club a greater chance of survival. Sponsorsorship and Corporate Money brings in far more money than a couple of hundred fans will. Would "Swinton" losing even half of its fan base, hurt it that much should a couple of Sponsors come on board and possibly invest in the Club?  No fan wants big changes that would possibly see a name change. But if it means the Club survives, then is it not worth it? Swinton like every other Club is a business that needs to adapt to survive. I cant understand why people cant see that.

I am sure Mr Mazey and co could have done things better. He has probably kept the club alive and has invested much time, money and effort in it. He has a better understanding of how the club can survive than most fans. Its a shame that many fans cant see this. Abusing and threatening the board, has maybe cost the Swinton fans the club. There is no excuse for that. Its easy to criticize Mr Mazey and the BoD for the decisions they made, but its them that kept Swinton going , not the fans.

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8 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

 

Changing the name to "Manchester" would not change anything, same as changing Halifax to Calderdale, Keighley to Bradford Cougars etc would change them clubs in a positive way.

Cant comapre the two - both Dewsbury and Keighley have played in their 'home' towns for their lifetime , The Lions have been away from  Swinton for at least 20 years ....

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Let’s be honest, a name change would have, likely, changed little. They’d still be a small club with a small following battling to stay in the Championship and most likely yo-yoing between their and League One. 

We’ll probably now have an off season of “Will Swinton make it to the new season?”  

The club’s very existence is now in doubt because of opposition to a controversial decision, which can only have been expected, and that’s the saddest thing out of all of this. 

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9 hours ago, Damien said:

What applications have they turned down and why? Have Swinton ever come close to buying land to build a stadium in Swinton?

There have been discussions about a stadium at Agecroft for years. Unfortunately Swinton have simply never had the finances to facilitate a return to the town without considerable council support.

I don't find the recent statement from City Major Paul Dennett helpful at all. Talk is cheap, actions cost money.

 

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13 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Keeping traditions is important and I do understand SOME Swinton fans not being happy. But they need to look at the reality that Swinton cant survive, like much of the game without some big changes that are needed. The Council have done nothing to help Swinton  over the years and still have nothing to offer. The Swinton fan base is around 500 and made up of mainly fans over 40 years old.Swintons future is bleak if it stays as it is. Sad but true. The name change would not have made any difference. The change in attitude and the possibility to sell and promote the club to a new and younger audience both in fans as well as sponsorship etc would have and needed to happen for me. Its just a shame some fans cant see that and even worse feel the need to threaten people-this happened at Halifax a few years ago with Tony Gartland and the club has not recovered since.

Totally agreed there, not sure if you have been to their sale ground but it's a nice setup they have going on there. Although on the small side it fits, I really enjoyed my trip earlier this season definitely up there in the better grounds category. 

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A name change alone wouldn't have changed anything, but I doubt anyone was dumb enough to think that it would. The name change would come with a lot of hard work to make it stick. 

But the reaction to the attempt to try something new is sadly typical of so much small time, parochial thinking in the sport. I genuinely believe that some fans would rather their club be king of the ashes rather than a small part of something bigger. 

With fans like these, who needs enemies?

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37 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Let’s be honest, a name change would have, likely, changed little. They’d still be a small club with a small following battling to stay in the Championship and most likely yo-yoing between their and League One. 

We’ll probably now have an off season of “Will Swinton make it to the new season?”  

The club’s very existence is now in doubt because of opposition to a controversial decision, which can only have been expected, and that’s the saddest thing out of all of this. 

Sadly i predict that without their main backer Swinton will wither on the vine and probably fold within 2 years.

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11 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

So, they’re going to go on how they’ve gone on for the last twenty or so years?

Their main backer has gone.

I'm not sure where the money will come from now.

Perhaps the new supporters trust or what ever its called has some money men on it

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

A name change alone wouldn't have changed anything, but I doubt anyone was dumb enough to think that it would. The name change would come with a lot of hard work to make it stick. 

But the reaction to the attempt to try something new is sadly typical of so much small time, parochial thinking in the sport. I genuinely believe that some fans would rather their club be king of the ashes rather than a small part of something bigger. 

With fans like these, who needs enemies?

That seems  a bit harsh but too often we tend to do that to our band of brothers.

The affinity we have for the label, the name, the place means this is like abandoning our dreams.

Northern communities are rightly feeling they've been ignored, abandoned and neglected for forever, this is just another nail in the coffin for all involved.

And they are our friends and never our enemies and just to emphasise this that would include Parky and anyone else on the no expansion side.

The only thing we must call them up on is making threats and insulting the board of directors because they're not the enemy either!

And all of us need to stop playing at being Mr Angry from Swinton.

Edited by Oxford
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41 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Their main backer has gone.

I'm not sure where the money will come from now.

Perhaps the new supporters trust or what ever its called has some money men on it

It's not a new supporters trust. It's been going for years and has played an important role in supporting the club. 

The statement from the directors makes specific reference to them, presumably because they haven't 100% come out to support the name change? 

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I'm sorry but Swinton,like a number of other similar clubs,offer very little to rugby league.They play from a hired ground,have little or no assets,a small but loyal band of supporters,dont really support the amateur/community game,so what do they offer other than tradition and the past.

The rugby league cake is already spread too thinly.Two leagues of 14 sustainable clubs has to be the way forward,with those missing out going into a stronger pyramid,as in ru.

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20 minutes ago, lee newb said:

It's not a new supporters trust. It's been going for years and has played an important role in supporting the club. 

The statement from the directors makes specific reference to them, presumably because they haven't 100% come out to support the name change? 

Will they be able to make up the short fall in income that will happen now with the chairman and some directors leaving the club?

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30 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Will they be able to make up the short fall in income that will happen now with the chairman and some directors leaving the club?

Wouldn't have thought so. If they had the income they would have invested before now. 

 

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8 minutes ago, lee newb said:

Wouldn't have thought so. If they had the income they would have invested before now. 

 

Which suggests to me that the fans who thought they would be saving the Swinton RLFC name wont be, and the chance to go forward as the Mancester Lions is not going to happen so everybody looses.

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56 minutes ago, cookey said:

I'm sorry but Swinton,like a number of other similar clubs,offer very little to rugby league.They play from a hired ground,have little or no assets,a small but loyal band of supporters,dont really support the amateur/community game,so what do they offer other than tradition and the past.

The rugby league cake is already spread too thinly.Two leagues of 14 sustainable clubs has to be the way forward,with those missing out going into a stronger pyramid,as in ru.

That is the reality, and the reason that the directors decided to try and grow the club under the Manchester brand. As painful as it is for the loyal supporters, when was the last time the Swinton club was financially stable? The 70's?

I'm not saying the rebrand would have worked, only time would tell.

Swintons fans are amongst the most loyal in the game. 27 years exiled from their town and still they are so passionate. They invest time and money in the club (ie pride builder, supporters trust memberships, donations) and have my upmost respect. Reality now is where is Swinton's place in the sport? 

Swinton's directors have been the most vocal and proactive about the structure after 2021. I haven't heard anything from clubs such as Oldham and Rochdale. Any ideas what their thoughts are post 2021, are they hopeful that they will continue to limp along? 

 

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1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

Which suggests to me that the fans who thought they would be saving the Swinton RLFC name wont be, and the chance to go forward as the Mancester Lions is not going to happen so everybody looses.

Most fans wanted Swinton retained in the name and hoped for a compromise. 

I can see both sides of the story, but without the investment and vision of the directors the future looks bleak. 

You are right, everyone loses and those fans who were sceptical but still considering following the club may have had the decision taken out of their hands. 

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1 hour ago, cookey said:

I'm sorry but Swinton,like a number of other similar clubs,offer very little to rugby league.They play from a hired ground,have little or no assets,a small but loyal band of supporters,dont really support the amateur/community game,so what do they offer other than tradition and the past.

The rugby league cake is already spread too thinly.Two leagues of 14 sustainable clubs has to be the way forward,with those missing out going into a stronger pyramid,as in ru.

   You mean like little Wigan Warriors?

 I recall some decades ago there were people who worked underground and they only kept open the pits that were profitable.The number of open collieries kept shrinking until none of them were left working.

  Living in the past never works - but being aware of the past is sometimes wise.

  Disgraceful treatment towards Mr Andy Mazey,and,apparently others.

  Once again a wealthy rugby league supporter has been forced out of the sport after being linked with a name change to Manchester.

  The sport is now synonymous with silliness and shrinkage.

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     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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4 minutes ago, lee newb said:

Most fans wanted Swinton retained in the name and hoped for a compromise. 

I can see both sides of the story, but without the investment and vision of the directors the future looks bleak. 

You are right, everyone loses and those fans who were sceptical but still considering following the club may have had the decision taken out of their hands. 

Perhaps Manchester-Swinton Lions might have been a compromise, but to late now.

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Just now, The Future is League said:

Perhaps Manchester-Swinton Lions might have been a compromise, but to late now.

The directors considered this. Supporters would have been content with Manchester SL, using the example of Hull KR. 

Directors view was the brand had to be clearly Manchester. All or nothing.. 

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