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Bateman - can he do any wrong

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The one big difference to Canberra this year is Bateman.I have been a Raiders supporter since they started so have been through the highs & lows.I also follow the Super League & was delighted when Canberra signed Bateman. It’s been no coincidence that Wigan struggled without him early this year and couldn’t believe that this was overlooked by the so called experts in England.I am also mates with Mick Robinson ex Castleford/ Wakefield football manager who was of the belief that John in his words great player but to small to be a success in Oz which I strongly disagreed with and take great delight in ringing every couple of weeks to  hear him say yes I was right and he was wrong.People sometimes forget that the most important part of a footballer is what’s between their ears not there size - the guy is never beaten competes on everything hates being beaten  and they rub off the on everybody else around them and hence the improved resilience of the raiders 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Celt said:

It wouldn't have. (IMO).

For me, it is the inevitable step up in games like that, and of course INTERNATIONALS where Bateman will struggle. If you look across the Kangaroos or Tonga test backlines, you see big, strong, fast individuals across the park. Bateman is tiny (for a forward) and slow (for a back). Yes... He puts in an incredible shift. Yes... He has a ton of heart. And yes... I CGAF if England lose (and you are playing a fairly mediocre Kiwi group) 

But... If you are serious about being competitive at Test level, then pick the athletes who are capable of doing the job.

Against a guy the size of Kikau.... There is only one winner.

I'm looking forward to a Kikau inspired Penrith coming up against a Bateman inspired Canberra in the finals.


People called Romans they go the house

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4 minutes ago, Flat Rock Kid said:

You’ll be waiting a while 

Yes. That's the point.

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6 hours ago, Celt said:

That's why you never win though. (Obviously you beat the kiwis but i'm talking about the big games).

England does have an incredible habit of trucking out the most undersized backlines in international RL. They played that scrawny wee runt Kevin Brown in the world cup final FFS!!!!

Every time you play the kangaroos, you look just as big as them from 8-13, but your backline is so lacking in size and strength it is incredible.

Hilarious.  Yes England's centres were so small Australia won the World Cup 30-0 ... Oh hang on a minute!

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1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

Hilarious.  Yes England's centres were so small Australia won the World Cup 30-0 ... Oh hang on a minute!

Your gross exaggeration doesn't make his point less valid.

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4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Your gross exaggeration doesn't make his point less valid.

Who is a better centre, Gildart or Hurrell?   Tell me, was Dean Bell too small.

One thing that will stick in my memory about NZ centres is the way they chop their opponent's heads off.

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6 hours ago, Celt said:

That's why you never win though. (Obviously you beat the kiwis but i'm talking about the big games).

England does have an incredible habit of trucking out the most undersized backlines in international RL. They played that scrawny wee runt Kevin Brown in the world cup final FFS!!!!

Every time you play the kangaroos, you look just as big as them from 8-13, but your backline is so lacking in size and strength it is incredible.

 

While I agree with your overall point that the Southern Hemisphere tends to play bigger and stronger backs, I think your example is a poor one.

Kevin Brown was at 6 in the World Cup final and if selected on form Luke Keary could be the Kangaroo 6 this year... a player who makes Brown look like Mr. Universe... but Keary is still a great stand off.

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9 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Who is a better centre, Gildart or Hurrell?   Tell me, was Dean Bell too small.

One thing that will stick in my memory about NZ centres is the way they chop their opponent's heads off.

Hurrell isn't Australia's centre. Even if he was Australian he wouldn't even be in the discussion. As for Gildart he has many flaws and is far from the finished article. He wouldn't even get in some NRL teams.

The game has moved on from the 80s and early 90s. Dean Bell wasn't particularly small for that era either.

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We've seen plenty of big, fast players who were physically remarkable, but didn't have the right stuff. Jamal Idris or Karl Pryce, for instance.

And there have been many players who were told, at some stage, that they were too small. Johnathan Thurston, for one, and he did all right.

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2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

We've seen plenty of big, fast players who were physically remarkable, but didn't have the right stuff. Jamal Idris or Karl Pryce, for instance.

And there have been many players who were told, at some stage, that they were too small. Johnathan Thurston, for one, and he did all right.

And there are stacks of big, fast players who are physically remarkable and do have the right stuff and the skills and the heart to back it up. They have also torn England/GB to shreds on a consistent basis for years. Plucking a couple of very limited players from the depths of time doesn't really change that.

Neither does naming a half back in a discussion about centres. We also here these quotes about Thurston, and I also recall similar reservations about Tomkins, being told they are too small and I think its great that these guys have proven people wrong. However there will always be exceptions to the rule and nothing is is said about the vast majority of times when players are told they are too small, too slow etc and indeed don't make it. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

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Not sure why the size of British centre's has been brought up in a thread about Bateman being one of the best backrowers in the game

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2 minutes ago, Damien said:

And there are stacks of big, fast players who are physically remarkable and do have the right stuff and the skills and the heart to back it up. They have also torn England/GB to shreds on a consistent basis for years. Plucking a couple of very limited players from the depths of time doesn't really change that.

Neither does naming a half back in a discussion about centres. We also here these quotes about Thurston, and I also recall similar reservations about Tomkins, being told they are too small and I think its great that these guys have proven people wrong. However there will always be exceptions to the rule and nothing is is said about the vast majority of times when players are told they are too small, too slow etc and indeed don't make it. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Sure, there are the big good ones too... and Bateman's playing against them week in week out and doing very nicely as one of the most eye-catching players in the most successful Raiders side in years.

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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. (Susan Ertz)

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3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Not sure why the size of British centre's has been brought up in a thread about Bateman being one of the best backrowers in the game

The national coaches of Bateman's era tend to play him in the centres. So there's a point in it, even if he plays his own sort of game that's a bit of both positions, wherever he's picked.


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. (Susan Ertz)

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quality player, shining in a quality environment 


the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Not sure why the size of British centre's has been brought up in a thread about Bateman being one of the best backrowers in the game

Exactly.  It’s not the dog in the fight, it’s the fight on the dog.

I remember watching Bateman in a losing side a few times and he stood out.  Enthusiasm and no little skill is taking him a long way.

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5 hours ago, Phil said:

NZ not big games? Typical Aussie arrogance, play us, that’s all we want you to do, play us in a series, what you hiding for? 

Am not Australian. 

And while i like and admire the way NZ support the international game, their performances are not exactly high level.

If the Aussies played your current team in a series, you would get absolutely hammered. The standard of thisseason's Super League has been utter garbage.

Disagree? Just look at Castleford on Friday night, and they are supposed to be playoff contenders! 😂

How many guys from Friday night could honestly go toe-to-toe with Australia??

2 from Wigan maybe, at a push?

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30 minutes ago, Celt said:

Am not Australian. 

And while i like and admire the way NZ support the international game, their performances are not exactly high level.

If the Aussies played your current team in a series, you would get absolutely hammered. The standard of thisseason's Super League has been utter garbage.

Disagree? Just look at Castleford on Friday night, and they are supposed to be playoff contenders! 😂

How many guys from Friday night could honestly go toe-to-toe with Australia??

2 from Wigan maybe, at a push?

Did you see Brisbane's performance today? Utter garbage too.

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20 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Did you see Brisbane's performance today? Utter garbage too.

I didn't, but will try to take a look.


Rugby League: Alive and Handling

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1 minute ago, Celt said:

I didn't, but will try to take a look.

If you're a Brisbane fan, I suggest taking up a position behind the sofa. Preferably in a foetal position with the Samaritans on speed-dial.

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4 hours ago, Damien said:

Hurrell isn't Australia's centre. Even if he was Australian he wouldn't even be in the discussion. As for Gildart he has many flaws and is far from the finished article. He wouldn't even get in some NRL teams.

The game has moved on from the 80s and early 90s. Dean Bell wasn't particularly small for that era either.

Yes I know Hurrell is not Australia's  centre. Spare be these trundling overweight centres who run out of breath at 60 minutes. Not like Bell.

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57 minutes ago, Celt said:

I didn't, but will try to take a look.

Oh, you should, you MUST!  It was A  MAZE     ING,


Four legs good - two legs bad

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8 hours ago, Dunbar said:

While I agree with your overall point that the Southern Hemisphere tends to play bigger and stronger backs, I think your example is a poor one.

Kevin Brown was at 6 in the World Cup final and if selected on form Luke Keary could be the Kangaroo 6 this year... a player who makes Brown look like Mr. Universe... but Keary is still a great stand off.

Fair point. I had typed my post and I did ask myself if he was perhaps at 6 in that game.

But you can probably see what I was getting at, with admittedly not the best example.

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