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Smudger06

Brian McDermott's Big City Team League

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15 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Wakefield met is under the Leeds city boundaries.....

What? ūüėā¬†Dress it up how you like its my last word on this subject.¬†

Edited by MADREDNIGE
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4 minutes ago, MADREDNIGE said:

What? ūüėā¬†Dress it up how you like its my last word on this subject.¬†

Things in the Leeds city region are in the picture, and Wigan voted for the greater Manchester mayor (Mr Andy Burnham currently). Welcome to the 21st century!

Screenshot_20191012-162508.png

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12 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Things in the Leeds city region are in the picture, and Wigan voted for the greater Manchester mayor (Mr Andy Burnham currently). Welcome to the 21st century!

Screenshot_20191012-162508.png

your wrong this area is not controlled by leeds council it is a joint enterprise which happens to be called leeds city region it is controlled by LEP  the Leeds City Region Partnership

 

Leeds City Region Partnership

The Leeds City Region refers to the local authority districts of Barnsley, Bradford, Calderdale, Craven, Harrogate, Kirklees, Leeds, Selby, Wakefield and York.

It is the UK’s largest economy and population centre outside London, generating 4% of national economic output and employing 1.3 million people.

Leeds City Region Partnership bring together local authorities, business and a range of other partners, working to a common goal of creating economic prosperity for the people who live and work in the City Region.

Its work focuses on economic intelligence, business innovation and growth, skills, the green economy, transport, housing and regeneration.

so that's 10 different councils  coming together for the common goal so i suggest next time you spout off do some proper research instead of just finding pretty pictures

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1 hour ago, TboneFromTO said:

Hull (2 teams) Leeds (1-3 teams depending who you ask) greater Manchester (3 teams), Toronto

So 4 big cities essentially

 

 

Totally wrong. The Question you attempted to answer was how many big cities are in SL? Firstly, Hull is definitely not a big city, not by any stretch of the imagination. Leeds; 1 Team. Greater Manchester; 2 teams. You got Toronto right although technically you could say Greater Manchester does have 3 teams after all....with the Wolfpack choosing to play a majority of their home games in Toronto. 

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1 hour ago, TboneFromTO said:

Hull (2 teams) Leeds (1-3 teams depending who you ask) greater Manchester (3 teams), Toronto

So 4 big cities essentially

 

 

Totally wrong. The Question you attempted to answer was how many big cities are in SL? Firstly, Hull is definitely not a big city, not by any stretch of the imagination. Leeds; 1 Team. Greater Manchester; 2 teams. You got Toronto right although technically you could say Greater Manchester does have 3 teams after all....with the Wolfpack choosing to play a majority of their home games in Toronto. 

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4 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Totally wrong. The Question you attempted to answer was how many big cities are in SL? Firstly, Hull is definitely not a big city, not by any stretch of the imagination. Leeds; 1 Team. Greater Manchester; 2 teams. You got Toronto right although technically you could say Greater Manchester does have 3 teams after all....with the Wolfpack choosing to play a majority of their home games in Toronto. 

Since when has Greater Manchester been a City?

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On 12/10/2019 at 08:51, scotchy1 said:

The simple fact of the matter is that london have done more than fev because someone was willing to throw money at London, no one is willing to do so for fev and that is the case because money is based in cities not tiny villages on the outskirts of wakefield. So if we want money to come in to the game to fund the growth it desperately needs, the game needs clubs where the money is, not where it isnt.

That is factless rubbish, another terrible post from you. The money is in the pockets of rich men who like Rugby league.

David Hughes is a dyed-in-the-wool league fan from Swinton who made his millions as an oil trader. Hughes, now 73, says. “I would estimate it’s somewhere in the region of £20m probably that I’ve invested in London". Paul Caddick played Rugby union for Headingley, but only a short distance from the league giants Leeds he invested heavily in. The Fulton family who bankroll tiny Castleford on the outskirts of Wakefield  make their money from a predominantly West Yorkshire based food retailers. Ian Lenegan made his money in Milton Keynes but was born and bred in Wigan. Neil Hudgell in Hull makes his money to back Rovers from his solicitors business branches across Yorkshire. Ken Davey was born north of there in Filey but started his businesses in Huddersfield and adopted Fartown, Eamon McManus is a Saints lad. Hull owner Adam Pearson is a Yorkshire lad

Rich RL club owners mostly have an affinity to the RL game itself, if not their home town teams. Had Caddick been born and raised in Pontefract or Featherstone then Fev could easily have been challenging for trophies. Fev did have a rich backer in Faisal Nahaboo. He pulled out of the small club, but equally Richard Branson pulled out of London. Steve O'Connor picked up Widnes and pulled out, and big city Bradford Bulls never found a rich owner, but Salford dropped on three who all pulled out, Snape, Wilkinson and Koukash, little Leigh have Beaumont.Your just plain wrong Scotchy

Toronto are massively lucky to have dropped on an RL enthusiast happy to waste $$Millions on Rugby League. That's not because Toronto is a big city, it's because Argyle has a close affinity with RL being from Australia. TWP are lucky he's in Toronto following his mining interest just as London are lucky  Hughes is down there following his Oil interests. This is why North America as big and rich as it is won't be backing any more clubs from there. The rich people there have never heard of Rugby League and have no affinity with it.....

23 hours ago, redjonn said:

It seems to me we have to improve the RL brand, in order to attract the interest of sponsors, business or more rich beneficiaries.

New clubs like a Toronto have to ride on the existing clubs by virtue of players to play and an existing sporting brand they want to be part of.  The key is sustaining the existing whilst nurturing whatever new clubs in places that some seem to want them. The risk being you kill the existing. especially the fan-base, that keeps RL hanging by the thread it is. Now of course Toronto could help grow the brands/SL value and bring in the sort of financial benefits to the sport that enables it to think big. 

What is all this "growing and improving the brand" stuff Red? Don't get dragged in by Scotchy.

Just stand back and look at the facts. We attract most of our private investor money from people within the game who have mainly grown up in the game. Argyle loves Rugby league because he's from the NRL. Sure outsiders have come to live in the north of England and got interested like Kurdi in Newcastle and Koukash when he came to live in Lancashire. Often when we have lost a rich northern owner like Arthur Thomas another has stepped in like Derek Beaumont. Ted Richardson left Wakefield who now have Michael Carter. If Argyle walks that's that.

The brand is strong along the M62 so we attract rich owners along the M62. Not in Barcelona or Copenhagen places TWP want to swan about pretending to grow the game, when in fact they are avoiding the bad weather in Canada. You say The risk of accepting these phoney clubs is you kill the existing.

That's no risk it's a certainty, you can't shift out five SL clubs for TWP and four more like them without ripping the game apart here. I've spent the last week listening to RL people on the media all too scared to discuss TWP's promotion, all calling it "expansion" all calling it "a great thing" a "shot in the arm".

More like a bullet in the brain if we keep replacing clubs here.....But we won't do that, and those people won't have to face questions about more NA clubs coming in because they know Argyle the Aussie is the only backer in America. They go along with the idea this is "expansion" so as not to appear parochial and insular.........

Edited by The Parksider
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54 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

I've spent the last week listening to RL people on the media all too scared to discuss TWP's promotion, all calling it "expansion" all calling it "a great thing" a "shot in the arm".

More like a bullet in the brain if we keep replacing clubs here.....But we won't do that, and those people won't have to face questions about more NA clubs coming in because they know Argyle the Aussie is the only backer in America. They go along with the idea this is "expansion" so as not to appear parochial and insular.........

Yet you, however, seem to have no problem appearing parochial and insular. Because of course you are. Not to mention arrogant, convinced that all those RL media people you listen to are either scared or wrong and you and you alone are right.

I believe a quote from Winston Churchill sums you up nicely: ‚ÄúA fanatic is one who can‚Äôt change his mind and won‚Äôt change the subject.‚ÄĚ

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How many times in one form or another has this population of Towns and cities in RL has this subject popped up? This time the culprit is Brian McDermott. 

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 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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21 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

They were relegated because they finished bottom.

But you are failing to answer the question because the obvious answer disproves your argument.

In 1996  hull were in the lower tiers and so were fev. Since then Hull have been promoted and won competitions and competed at the top.

Why have they been able to do this and Fev haven't?

Ask the RFL why when we finished top in 2010, 2011 & 2013 we weren't promoted?  Ask Mr Oddy why he waved play on and when we scored a try at Huddersfield in 1998 he disallowed it.  Ask Maurice LIndsay why he excluded Fev from SL.

Ask the RFL why they effectively fast tracked Celtic Crusaders into SL when a good number of their players were here on tourist visas.

You are clueless. Because these things don't happen to Leeds or Wigan or Saints.

But again back to the argument.  Which part of "been tried, didn't work" don't you understand?

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‚ÄúFew thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.‚ÄĚ

Clement Attlee.

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13 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Ask the RFL why when we finished top in 2010, 2011 & 2013 we weren't promoted?  Ask Mr Oddy why he waved play on and when we scored a try at Huddersfield in 1998 he disallowed it.  Ask Maurice LIndsay why he excluded Fev from SL.

Ask the RFL why they effectively fast tracked Celtic Crusaders into SL when a good number of their players were here on tourist visas.

You are clueless. Because these things don't happen to Leeds or Wigan or Saints.

But again back to the argument.  Which part of "been tried, didn't work" don't you understand?

Thats a lot of irrelevant nonsense. You wont answer the question because you can't and now you are descending in to conspiracy theory and frankly pretty pathetic accusations.

You know the reason, i know the reason. Theres no real point going on because you will never be able to bring yourself to admit it. 

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22 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Im sure its news to Workington and Oldham that there wasnt P&R at all at the start of SL.  

In 1996 Hull were in the championship. Since then they have spent years in SL and won Challenge Cups, appeared in grand finals. Huddersfield went up and down and have since won LLS and appeared in CC finals. What is the reason these clubs made it and have been competitive yet Fev havent?

 

 

Unless I missed something, didn't Hull as Hull Sharks go bust and the RFL relocate Gateshead there to play as Hull? How bigger handout was that? As for Huddersfield, a con of a merger with Sheffield so they could survive as well. If your big city theories are correct, why didn't they move the merged team to play out of Sheffield?

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30 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

If your big city theories are correct, why didn't they... 

Probably because of a degree of incompetence on behalf of the administration? 

Which doesn't change the reality that more money is potentially available in larger cities than smaller.

Nor does it change the reality that it's up to the clubs to try and leverage that reality to their advantage.

Is there a reason why that is even debatable?

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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

Ask the RFL why when we finished top in 2010, 2011 & 2013 we weren't promoted?  Ask Mr Oddy why he waved play on and when we scored a try at Huddersfield in 1998 he disallowed it.  Ask Maurice LIndsay why he excluded Fev from SL.

Ask the RFL why they effectively fast tracked Celtic Crusaders into SL when a good number of their players were here on tourist visas.

You are clueless. Because these things don't happen to Leeds or Wigan or Saints.

But again back to the argument.  Which part of "been tried, didn't work" don't you understand?

That one's easy: he didn't see the knock on but the linesman did. Unfortunately you and quite a few others play the 'Fev the victims' card  far too often and do the club no favours at all.

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats a lot of irrelevant nonsense. You wont answer the question because you can't and now you are descending in to conspiracy theory and frankly pretty pathetic accusations.

You know the reason, i know the reason. Theres no real point going on because you will never be able to bring yourself to admit it. 

What is the question please?


‚ÄúFew thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.‚ÄĚ

Clement Attlee.

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40 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

That one's easy: he didn't see the knock on but the linesman did. Unfortunately you and quite a few others play the 'Fev the victims' card  far too often and do the club no favours at all.

I didn't see the knock-on on the night. It wasn't visible from where I was.  I saw it on the replay.  But had he not waved play on the Fev players would have been in a better state to defend the Wakey attack.  If there was doubt he should have stopped play.  He didn't.

Edited by Trojan

‚ÄúFew thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.‚ÄĚ

Clement Attlee.

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10 minutes ago, Trojan said:

What is the question please?

Why have other clubs who started in the championship in 1996 with fev been able to achieve thing Fev haven't and why are those clubs uniformly larger urban areas than fev

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Why have other clubs who started in the championship in 1996 with fev been able to achieve thing Fev haven't and why are those clubs uniformly larger urban areas than fev

Whatever the rights of wrongs of what happened at Huddersfield that night, had Fev won I'm sure they'd have performed at least as well as Wakey have and grown their crowds. Had they been promoted when they won the Championship in 2010, 2011 & 2012 you wouldn't have an argument.  By the time P&R came back Fev's team were past its best and they had to rebuild.  They have rebuilt, and last week's game at Toronto was the evidence.  Toronto, rested for a fortnight struggled to beat them for an hour until fatigue caused by two flights abroad and two games in less than seven days caught up with them.

But again the argument isn't about Fev but about big cities.  Again, it's been tried.  It failed.  Probably due to lack of money.  Off you go, found a big city side and get a generous multi billionaire to fund it. There's your chance to prove yourself right.

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‚ÄúFew thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.‚ÄĚ

Clement Attlee.

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29 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Whatever the rights of wrongs of what happened at Huddersfield that night, had Fev won I'm sure they'd have performed at least as well as Wakey have and grown their crowds. Had they been promoted when they won the Championship in 2010, 2011 & 2012 you wouldn't have an argument.  By the time P&R came back Fev's team were past its best and they had to rebuild.  They have rebuilt, and last week's game at Toronto was the evidence.  Toronto, rested for a fortnight struggled to beat them for an hour until fatigue caused by two flights abroad and two games in less than seven days caught up with them.

But again the argument isn't about Fev but about big cities.  Again, it's been tried.  It failed.  Probably due to lack of money.  Off you go, found a big city side and get a generous multi billionaire to fund it. There's your chance to prove yourself right.

But fev didn't did they, nor did they in any of the subsequent seasons. Toronto have, Salford have, huddersfield have etc etc etc 

You still haven't explained why these clubs have been able to and fev haven't. 

As for your last paragraph, that is exactly what we are seeing. That's why toronto won 26 of 27 league games after losing a GF and fev, well, didnt.

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12 hours ago, The Parksider said:

More like a bullet in the brain if we keep replacing clubs here.....But we won't do that, and those people won't have to face questions about more NA clubs coming in because they know Argyle the Aussie is the only backer in America. They go along with the idea this is "expansion" so as not to appear parochial and insular.........

   While the first part of your post is contentious,I would just like to know which club has been replaced? Hemel sold/gave away their position in League 1 to Ottawa - so that is an expansion club from a small town north of London to a larger populated city which may have more wealthy residents/workers.I struggle to think of any other club replaced...

  Most wealthy individuals would be more prepared to get involved with established clubs than start up a new one in an area where the future attendances are uncertain.It says much about the overseas investors,does it not?

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     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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Why doesnt someone dig up some of the many old threads on this subject and there are many . Weve been here before folks 


 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

But fev didn't did they, nor did they in any of the subsequent seasons. Toronto have, Salford have, huddersfield have etc etc etc 

You still haven't explained why these clubs have been able to and fev haven't. 

As for your last paragraph, that is exactly what we are seeing. That's why toronto won 26 of 27 league games after losing a GF and fev, well, didnt.

early days, let's see how enthusiastic Toronto's owners and supporters are when the team's getting hammered every week. 

As for Fev. Our day will come.  As I've posted before the loyalty and willingness to support their team, even to the extent of helping erect a stand does them credit. I'd like to see how enthusiastic Leeds fans would be given Fev's circumstances of being excluded from SL, and refused access even when they win the league.  Please don't reply to this, your whole argument is spurious and pointless in the extreme.  It's my opinion that unless and until someone gambles big money on establishing a RL club in a big city, there's no chance of it ever happening.   I really don't think flying teams across the Atlantic week in week out is sustainable in the long term.


‚ÄúFew thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.‚ÄĚ

Clement Attlee.

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15 hours ago, The Parksider said:

That is factless rubbish, another terrible post from you. The money is in the pockets of rich men who like Rugby league.

David Hughes is a dyed-in-the-wool league fan from Swinton who made his millions as an oil trader. Hughes, now 73, says. “I would estimate it’s somewhere in the region of £20m probably that I’ve invested in London". Paul Caddick played Rugby union for Headingley, but only a short distance from the league giants Leeds he invested heavily in. The Fulton family who bankroll tiny Castleford on the outskirts of Wakefield  make their money from a predominantly West Yorkshire based food retailers. Ian Lenegan made his money in Milton Keynes but was born and bred in Wigan. Neil Hudgell in Hull makes his money to back Rovers from his solicitors business branches across Yorkshire. Ken Davey was born north of there in Filey but started his businesses in Huddersfield and adopted Fartown, Eamon McManus is a Saints lad. Hull owner Adam Pearson is a Yorkshire lad

Rich RL club owners mostly have an affinity to the RL game itself, if not their home town teams. Had Caddick been born and raised in Pontefract or Featherstone then Fev could easily have been challenging for trophies. Fev did have a rich backer in Faisal Nahaboo. He pulled out of the small club, but equally Richard Branson pulled out of London. Steve O'Connor picked up Widnes and pulled out, and big city Bradford Bulls never found a rich owner, but Salford dropped on three who all pulled out, Snape, Wilkinson and Koukash, little Leigh have Beaumont.Your just plain wrong Scotchy

Toronto are massively lucky to have dropped on an RL enthusiast happy to waste $$Millions on Rugby League. That's not because Toronto is a big city, it's because Argyle has a close affinity with RL being from Australia. TWP are lucky he's in Toronto following his mining interest just as London are lucky  Hughes is down there following his Oil interests. This is why North America as big and rich as it is won't be backing any more clubs from there. The rich people there have never heard of Rugby League and have no affinity with it.....

What is all this "growing and improving the brand" stuff Red? Don't get dragged in by Scotchy.

Just stand back and look at the facts. We attract most of our private investor money from people within the game who have mainly grown up in the game. Argyle loves Rugby league because he's from the NRL. Sure outsiders have come to live in the north of England and got interested like Kurdi in Newcastle and Koukash when he came to live in Lancashire. Often when we have lost a rich northern owner like Arthur Thomas another has stepped in like Derek Beaumont. Ted Richardson left Wakefield who now have Michael Carter. If Argyle walks that's that.

The brand is strong along the M62 so we attract rich owners along the M62. Not in Barcelona or Copenhagen places TWP want to swan about pretending to grow the game, when in fact they are avoiding the bad weather in Canada. You say The risk of accepting these phoney clubs is you kill the existing.

That's no risk it's a certainty, you can't shift out five SL clubs for TWP and four more like them without ripping the game apart here. I've spent the last week listening to RL people on the media all too scared to discuss TWP's promotion, all calling it "expansion" all calling it "a great thing" a "shot in the arm".

More like a bullet in the brain if we keep replacing clubs here.....But we won't do that, and those people won't have to face questions about more NA clubs coming in because they know Argyle the Aussie is the only backer in America. They go along with the idea this is "expansion" so as not to appear parochial and insular.........

You make a lot of good points, so much so I‚Äôm having to rethink my previous comment backing Scotchy and his ‚Äúbig city clubs attract¬†more investment‚ÄĚ point.¬†

His point definitely works in football (maybe that’s where I was influenced in backing him), as rich investors see huge potential in areas with a greater populous  (Abramovich invested in Chelsea thanks in large part to their location). 

The money maybe just isn’t there to be made in RL which would make them attractive to investors with no tangible connection to RL, rather it’s rich men who love RL who are willing to throw millions away (and in their own local clubs regardless of size).

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