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Smudger06

Brian McDermott's Big City Team League

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12 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

You didn't answer the question.

Because it is based on fallacies. The premise if the question is wrong so the answer doesnt matter 

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11 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Give Featherstone £40 million pounds (Hughes and London SL Money, 20 seasons)  and they are 1/100 on to spend it more efficiently , productively and with a better end result than London.

In your bizarre world view - Club given £40 million plus now playing on a rented park ( their  8th (??) ground in 40 years), capacity 4000, in front of two thousand paying fans, if they are lucky, in an area of 10 million (or watched by 0.02 of the surrounding population), never won a trophy = success.

Club given around £3 million (cumulative championship funding), own their own heavily improved ground, their ground since the inception of the club over 100 years ago,  capacity just short of 10,000, watched by an incredible 16% plus of the local population, RL champions and major trophy winners = failure.

Bizarre. Absolutely bizarre.

Solly had explained why you have completely missed the point.

You have absolutely disproven your own argument. £40m is available to London, it isnt to fev

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9 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

 

 

Not missed the point at all.

Success..?? Money has flowed..??? Featherstone contribute "little to nothing" yet have more assets than Sheffield, London and the Welsh clubs combined. In a village of 15,000. They are a huge part of their community unlike the aforementioned.

Any money that has been "flowing" to these clubs in their massively, massively advantageous places has obviously been totally and utterly wasted and resulted in failure.

This will only continue.

That is the point.

 

You did miss the point. Even if your biased nonsense is true, 

Even if all this money is wasted  it is money that otherwise wouldnt be in the game. 

London being london attracted david Hughes. Remove london replace them with fev and the money he puts in disappears as well. The growth in player numbers in london disappears and the game is poorer for it.

If you are telling yourself that if we had seen £20m or whatever less.coming in to the game from david Hughes, and if we were seeing none of the growth in player numbers and the players coming through in london, all of this would have been replaced by fev getting sky money instead, they would have replaced this income and amateur pool then you are lieing to yourself. 

The simple fact of the matter is that london have done more than fev because someone was willing to throw money at London, no one is willing to do so for fev and that is the case because money is based in cities not tiny villages on the outskirts of wakefield. So if we want money to come in to the game to fund the growth it desperately needs, the game needs clubs where the money is, not where it isnt

That's not a slight on fev who are a valuable community club, it's a harsh fact of life. 

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19 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

To win the competition they are in. Fev have never been in SL in 24 years. Their existence isnt tied to SL

And as I stated earlier large numbers of their fans still turn out home and away.  OK crowds are down, but that's largely because as fans stop coming due to illness or death (I'm 73) they haven't been replaced by new fans, largely IMO because they're no longer in the top flight.  Let's artificially exclude Leeds or Wigan from SL, and artificially keep them out, like licencing did to Fev for twenty years or so.  And then let's see how many fans and backaers they attract.

When I started watching the game Swinton, 'Fax, Workington were big names. Wakey were dominating the game. Challenge cups, Championships, the lot.  But it only took the death of one man to change all that.

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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55 minutes ago, Trojan said:

And as I stated earlier large numbers of their fans still turn out home and away.  OK crowds are down, but that's largely because as fans stop coming due to illness or death (I'm 73) they haven't been replaced by new fans, largely IMO because they're no longer in the top flight.  Let's artificially exclude Leeds or Wigan from SL, and artificially keep them out, like licencing did to Fev for twenty years or so.  And then let's see how many fans and backaers they attract.

When I started watching the game Swinton, 'Fax, Workington were big names. Wakey were dominating the game. Challenge cups, Championships, the lot.  But it only took the death of one man to change all that.

We didnt have licensing for 20 odd years, we had it for 5 seasons. The other 19 are all on fev.

It isnt some unfairness or conspiracy that creates this situation. It is a natural consequence of fev having no money and nobody wanting to put the millions required to get them up to standard in. 

And the world has changed compared to 50-60years ago. You cant compare the world where miners were playing doe beer money to today. The world is different the game is different. What worked then doesnt work now. If the game clings to living in the 50s and 60s it will.die

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34 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

We didnt have licensing for 20 odd years, we had it for 5 seasons. The other 19 are all on fev.

It isnt some unfairness or conspiracy that creates this situation. It is a natural consequence of fev having no money and nobody wanting to put the millions required to get them up to standard in. 

And the world has changed compared to 50-60years ago. You cant compare the world where miners were playing doe beer money to today. The world is different the game is different. What worked then doesnt work now. If the game clings to living in the 50s and 60s it will.die

They didn't have P&R at all for the first few years,  Then they had it for a couple of years, then licencing, then the middle 8's which was not easy, and now proper P&R, how long that will last is anyone's guess. My bet is now they've got Toronto in they'll change the format. Probably about the beginning of July next year so no one has a real chance to react.  That's the usual way with these things

Miners don't play for beer money any more, you may not have noticed but thanks to your Tory pals there are no more miners.  Sport is one way for the working man to climb the ladder, but if someone takes the ladder away, what chance doers he have?

Anyway back to the big cities.  What part of "been tried several times, didn't work" don't you understand?

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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17 minutes ago, Trojan said:

They didn't have P&R at all for the first few years,  Then they had it for a couple of years, then licencing, then the middle 8's which was not easy, and now proper P&R, how long that will last is anyone's guess. My bet is now they've got Toronto in they'll change the format. Probably about the beginning of July next year so no one has a real chance to react.  That's the usual way with these things

Miners don't play for beer money any more, you may not have noticed but thanks to your Tory pals there are no more miners.  Sport is one way for the working man to climb the ladder, but if someone takes the ladder away, what chance doers he have?

Anyway back to the big cities.  What part of "been tried several times, didn't work" don't you understand?

Im sure its news to Workington and Oldham that there wasnt P&R at all at the start of SL.  

In 1996 Hull were in the championship. Since then they have spent years in SL and won Challenge Cups, appeared in grand finals. Huddersfield went up and down and have since won LLS and appeared in CC finals. What is the reason these clubs made it and have been competitive yet Fev havent?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Im sure its news to Workington and Oldham that there wasnt P&R at all at the start of SL.  

In 1996 Hull were in the championship. Since then they have spent years in SL and won Challenge Cups, appeared in grand finals. Huddersfield went up and down and have since won LLS and appeared in CC finals. What is the reason these clubs made it and have been competitive yet Fev havent?

 

 

Workington and Oldham were in from the start and dropped out because they couldn't make it pay.  Huddersfield should have been relegated but SL wouldn't allow the team at the top of the championship to be promoted because their ground wasn't up to their standards.  Funny that they let London in with a ground considerably worse than Dewsbury or Hunslet. 

Hull are a big club with big support.  But given the number of their supporters they haven't really succeeded like they should have.

Cas are more on a par with Fev.  They were in the GF two years ago, after being promoted. They got there after kidnapping our coach.  Fev could certainly emulate them.  Don't forget Fev finished top of the Championship year after year under licencing but of course weren't allowed in because of licencing.

But this argument isn't about Fev it's about big cities.  And the big cities idea has been tried and seen to fail.

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

To win the competition they are in. Fev have never been in SL in 24 years. Their existence isnt tied to SL

Got cheated out of SL if you know your facts, moved the goal posts!!! 

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Can’t we expand and keep places like Fev a real hotbed of the sport at the same time?

I think what we need to be doing is selling out games and getting the Wigan public engaged again with their club.

An image of full looking stands is more likely to help the image of the game than the fact that a match is taking place between cities.

I like loads of sports and am more drawn to teams and examples of sporting excellence or fantastic atmospheres, I think the city factor isn’t irrelevant, but I wouldn’t go overboard on it either.

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It seems to me we have to improve the RL brand, in order to attract the interest of sponsors, business or more rich beneficiaries that could provide the ability for the sport to re-calibrate - Whether that be the so called arrival of big glamour cities. BTW if asked the big glamour cities I would never of listed Toronto, no matter its a lovely place and a big city.

Part of the stepping stone to whatever dream glamour existence one may have their has to be the growing of the sports awareness and brand to get their.   Whether that be increasing existing crowds, growing the international game whilst existing clubs grow participation and player pathways.

New clubs like a Toronto have to ride on the existing clubs by virtue of players to play and an existing sporting brand they want to be part of.  The key is sustaining the existing whilst nurturing whatever new clubs in places that some seem to want them. The risk being you kill the existing. especially the fan-base, that keeps RL hanging by the thread it is.

Now of course Toronto could help grow the brands/SL value and bring in the sort of financial benefits to the sport that enables it to think big. Time will tell.

Edited by redjonn
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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

Workington and Oldham were in from the start and dropped out because they couldn't make it pay.  Huddersfield should have been relegated but SL wouldn't allow the team at the top of the championship to be promoted because their ground wasn't up to their standards.  Funny that they let London in with a ground considerably worse than Dewsbury or Hunslet. 

Hull are a big club with big support.  But given the number of their supporters they haven't really succeeded like they should have.

Cas are more on a par with Fev.  They were in the GF two years ago, after being promoted. They got there after kidnapping our coach.  Fev could certainly emulate them.  Don't forget Fev finished top of the Championship year after year under licencing but of course weren't allowed in because of licencing.

But this argument isn't about Fev it's about big cities.  And the big cities idea has been tried and seen to fail.

They were relegated because they finished bottom.

But you are failing to answer the question because the obvious answer disproves your argument.

In 1996  hull were in the lower tiers and so were fev. Since then Hull have been promoted and won competitions and competed at the top.

Why have they been able to do this and Fev haven't?

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Infamy infamy...

 

Edited by MADREDNIGE

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

They were relegated because they finished bottom.

But you are failing to answer the question because the obvious answer disproves your argument.

In 1996  hull were in the lower tiers and so were fev. Since then Hull have been promoted and won competitions and competed at the top.

Why have they been able to do this and Fev haven't?

Because Hull is a city with far more support the Fev which you can't argue with but you keep talking about big cities, HOW MANY big cities are there in SL then? 

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8 minutes ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Because Hull is a city with far more support the Fev which you can't argue with but you keep talking about big cities, HOW MANY big cities are there in SL then? 

Hull (2 teams) Leeds (1-3 teams depending who you ask) greater Manchester (3 teams), Toronto

So 4 big cities essentially

 

 

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10 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Hull (2 teams) Leeds (1-3 teams depending who you ask) greater Manchester (3 teams), Toronto

So 4 big cities essentially

 

 

Greater Manchester, Salford who else? Don't tell me Wigan or Saints are big cities. And how you got three in Leeds? Strange answer this one. What about Wakefield (1-3 teams depending who you ask). 

Edited by MADREDNIGE
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Scotchy’s point (and Brian McDermott’s) is valid. Big city teams attract more money. 

London might have wasted the £40 million, the point is Fev would never have got that £40 million to waste. There is a glass ceiling with clubs like Fev, there isn’t with big city teams.

Of course you have to be careful not to disrespect these small town/village teams as they have been the bedrock of RL since its inception. These historical clubs shouldn’t just be discarded for a new shiny city club with no history, there has to be a balancing act. It would be a risky move to sideline the likes of Fev and place all your bets on a Toronto, as the latter doesn’t have the deep seated roots in the game that these smaller town/village teams have.

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1 minute ago, DC77 said:

Scotchy’s point (and Brian McDermott’s) is valid. Big city teams attract more money. 

London might have wasted the £40 million, the point is Fev would never have got that £40 million to waste. There is a glass ceiling with clubs like Fev, there isn’t with big city teams.

Of course you have to be careful not to disrespect these small town/village teams as they have been the bedrock of RL since its inception. These historical clubs shouldn’t just be discarded for a new shiny city club with no history, there has to be a balancing act. It would be a risky move to sideline the likes of Fev and place all your bets on a Toronto, as the latter doesn’t have the deep seated roots in the game that these smaller town/village teams have.

So let me get this straight if you want big city clubs eg. Toronto, Leeds, Hull, London and maybe in time New York etc where would that leave Wigan, Saints, Warrington etc they arnt big cities? 

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1 minute ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Greater Manchester, Salford who else? Don't tell me Wigan or Saints are big cities. And how you got three in Leeds? Strange answer this one. 

Wigan are in greater manchester, and the Leeds area contains Wakefield and Castleford.

These are the modern boundaries! Since the 1980s cities world wide have been amalgamating, partly due to urban sprawl and partly due to economics.

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2 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Wigan are in greater manchester, and the Leeds area contains Wakefield and Castleford.

These are the modern boundaries! Since the 1980s cities world wide have been amalgamating, partly due to urban sprawl and partly due to economics.

Wakefield and Cas are nowt to do with Leeds, Fev and Cas are in the Wakefield Met. It's getting dafter this! You are making teams out to be cities who aren't cities. 

Edited by MADREDNIGE
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Just looked it up, Wigan is a TOWN in Greater Manchester, you got one bit right. As are St Helens and Warrington towns. 

Edited by MADREDNIGE

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7 minutes ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Wakefield and Cas are nowt to do with Leeds, Fev and Cas are in the Wakefield Met. It's getting dafter this! You are making teams out to be cities who aren't cities. 

Wakefield met is under the Leeds city boundaries.....

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7 minutes ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Just looked it up, Wigan is a TOWN in Greater Manchester, you got one bit right. As are St Helens and Warrington towns. 

Wigan is in greater Manchester then? As I said at first? Cool thanks for confirming

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6 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Wigan is in greater Manchester then? As I said at first? Cool thanks for confirming

Yes i said you'd got that right but you're talking about big city teams and Wigan is a TOWN, cool! 

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