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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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Just now, Robin Evans said:

So is this a different club then? With a different application??

If so.... start in League 1.

If its the same club.... divvy up

If the new owner was up for it I'd be quite happy to do another year in Championship, some lovely folks came over with their splendid teams and we could rebuild the squad (and it would be a nice swan song for SBW) but it seems LiVolsi doesnt see it as a viable path. Pity

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2 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Oh come on! Weren't you one of the ones screaming that the TWP players have to get paid no matter what, and now along comes a man with a plan, and some reasonable conditions, that will get them paid. The players agree to it and even try to help things out to get things moving and you don't approve of their actions?! 

You can't have it both ways!!

Oh yes he can....its called 'sitting on the fence' and constantly shifting as the wind changes direction.

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Just now, Kayakman said:

Oh yes he can....its called 'sitting on the fence' and constantly shifting as the wind changes direction.

I'm perfectly clear on my view on TWP. I'm just not a cheerleader or a hater, which may be odd for here and you guys struggle to follow that. 

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2 hours ago, binosh said:

By my reckoning they have already lost some of their best players with more to be announced, will they even have a team to compete in the SL? if re-instated can they even field a team

Just to pick up this point specifically. If I was to be cynically minded, they've probably got rid of some players that they had to overpay for in order to get them to play in League 1/Championship. Not deadwood, but certainly over the odds wages wise. It was the fact they couldn't have squad numbers 23, 24 and 25 filled by academy graduates on apprentice wages that was slimming their squad.

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14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

When we are talking about what has happened so far, he is relevant to the discussion. 

I could have just said the pl ayers were shafted by Toronto Wolfpack, their employer, but for some reason I expect you would have taken offence to that to. 

And how is bashing Argyle and his defunct ownership of TWP going to resolve anything now? 

As for not being a hater, well, if it walks like a duck and (especially) talks like a duck...

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1 minute ago, TIWIT said:

And how is bashing Argyle and his defunct ownership of TWP going to resolve anything now? 

As for not being a hater, well, if it walks like a duck and (especially) talks like a duck...

Yet Kayakman suggests I'm sitting on the fence. 

We aren't here to resolve anything, we are here to discuss TWP, and the discussion was about players not being paid. It shouldn't be a surprise that Argyle's name comes up. 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Yet Kayakman suggests I'm sitting on the fence. 

We aren't here to resolve anything, we are here to discuss TWP, and the discussion was about players not being paid. It shouldn't be a surprise that Argyle's name comes up. 

Kayakman is much more diplomatic than I.

Addendum (after some further thought)

He is also far more honest than many here. He wears his heart on his sleeve and no one has doubts where his loyalties lie.

He is definitely a cheerleader, specifically for the Wolfpack but also for the game of Rugby League in general, which can certainly use a lot more of.

Edited by TIWIT
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4 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I think this comment from Gary Carter rather than a reported comment from a club, but this is a red herring:

The NFL has succeeded as a transatlantic venture. It has grown an audience on this side of the Atlantic and sells-out four games a year. That's success. 

The measure of success is not whether there is a London franchise. In many respects, it is better for the NFL to not have a London franchise for the same reason that, before the Rams moved there, Los Angeles was the most important city in the NFL. Without the threat of a London franchise, it's harder for franchises in America to bully the local government into funding new stadiums. 

The NFL aren't doing the London thing in order to establish a franchise. They're doing it to build and monetise an audience. 

And lose a fortune in the process 

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3 hours ago, RobertAM said:

If the new owner was up for it I'd be quite happy to do another year in Championship, some lovely folks came over with their splendid teams and we could rebuild the squad (and it would be a nice swan song for SBW) but it seems LiVolsi doesnt see it as a viable path. Pity

He said L1 , not the Championship 

Is it the same club or not ?

Edited by GUBRATS
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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm perfectly clear on my view on TWP. I'm just not a cheerleader or a hater, which may be odd for here and you guys struggle to follow that. 

You aren't the only one of that opinion , but are painted differently , but if they are to be problem after problem , then they aren't worth it 

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3 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Kayakman is much more diplomatic than I.

Addendum (after some further thought)

He is also far more honest than many here. He wears his heart on his sleeve and no one has doubts where his loyalties lie.

He is definitely a cheerleader, specifically for the Wolfpack but also for the game of Rugby League in general, which can certainly use a lot more of.

He's a bel lend 😉

Edited by GUBRATS
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13 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

What makes you think the NFL is losing money on their London matches, have you seen the financial numbers?

The NFL deals in numbers that are entirely beyond GUBRATS' comprehension.

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20 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

What makes you think the NFL is losing money on their London matches, have you seen the financial numbers?

Not to mention the new, expanded five year UK TV deal they signed this year and the increasijg number of Gamepass subscribers in recent years. All this stuff in London must be a real loss-leader. 

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7 hours ago, RobertAM said:

To me it appears Superleague and/or the RFL want LiVolsi to write, in a couple of weeks,  a long term business plan for the future of the game that they should have written themselves prior to encouraging the participation of any expansion teams. Surely this is what Ralph Rimmer and Robert Elstone are getting vast sums of money to produce?

Its simple, either the game (the team owners, fans, sponsors and broadcast partners) want to expand the global footprint of RL in which case share the revenue and expenses equally or alternatively advise any potential investors that the game  is staying put in its M62 silo. Tell Catalans and Toulouse to join a domestic or pan European  league, advise Ottawa and NYRL to set up a NA league, and perhaps we will meet once every couple of years for an International tournament. That would be the kindest thing to do rather than saying to well heeled individuals "yes you can join but when you get too ambitious (making SL in 3 years) or successful (winning the Challenge Cup) you must post a bond or fund the entire shebang yourself. 

Most sensible thing written these past 285 pages.

Edited by CanadianRugger
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5 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Kayakman is much more diplomatic than I.

Addendum (after some further thought)

He is also far more honest than many here. He wears his heart on his sleeve and no one has doubts where his loyalties lie.

He is definitely a cheerleader, specifically for the Wolfpack but also for the game of Rugby League in general, which can certainly use a lot more of.

I think that that is a very fair and realistic assessment...my interests lie with my club, the Wolfpack..I make no apologies for being loyal to my club....think of the gross hypocrisy of it coming from some on here...being loyal to 'The Wolfpack' ...its just not right...right out of Bizzaro (do you get Bizzaro comic strip over there?).

And I've been honest about things right from the start, which shattered the crystal world of some, but they were/are living in the past.  Its the future where I travel.

Of course, like the vast majority on here, I love League...regardless of club.

I'm also an optimist, always will be....this has put me at odds with some since the beginning...so be it...Wolfpack fans are not for sale.

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9 hours ago, binosh said:

A couple of points from me that I'm not clear on if anyone can help.

1, If its SL or bust what happens if they are relegated next year, will he pull out?

2, What is this huge fantastic "wolf grooming" business worth to the SL and is it realistic?

3, When are we likely to see this huge NA TV deal that everybody bangs on about, have I missed it? is it in the pipeline?

4, If again, like Argyle this man is so rich, why is the 1.8M per year of central funding so pivotal to the deal itself when he already owes nearly 1.2M in back pay for just 4 months? 1.8M doesn't cover anything like his payroll for a season so always has a huge shortfall? can he afford to keep covering it?

5, Is he clearing all the debts, to service providers, backroom staff, sub contractors and other clubs etc or just playing staff?

6, Would it not be cost effective to spend all this money on starting an NA league rather than play in an English one but let the RFL administer it? and help gain their own TV deal and have a long term plan to merge them in the future?

7, By my reckoning they have already lost some of their best players with more to be announced, will they even have a team to compete in the SL? if re-instated can they even field a team?

8, Who is paying for all the flights & accommodation for a Canadian team to play in an English league?

 

These are just a few things that I have thought of there will be loads to iron out, there are so many variables to consider when deciding to accept them back into SL for 2021 or not.

You realize Wolf Grooming is a brand right?  It's not a business.  The company that owns Wolf Grooming is called Apollo Health and Beauty Care.  It's a gigantic beauty products producer.  

Edited by CanadianRugger
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1 minute ago, CanadianRugger said:

You realize Wolf Grooming is a brand?  It's not a business.  The company that owns Wolf Grooming is called Apollo Health and Beauty Care.  It's a gigantic beauty products producer.  

I tried to explain it to some earlier, especially about being a big supplier to WALMART, BUT THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.  They must not even have Walmarts over there?  Walmart moves a lot of product...just imagine if some of it were to become RL merchandise?

But for many that is asking them to go for a bridge too far.  NOPE!

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41 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I tried to explain it to some earlier, especially about being a big supplier to WALMART, BUT THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.  They must not even have Walmarts over there?  Walmart moves a lot of product...just imagine if some of it were to become RL merchandise?

But for many that is asking them to go for a bridge too far.  NOPE!

Sounds like you are getting frustrated K`man, I like the way you say " not even have Walmart." I think you can expect a few responses about that.

You might want to pack your camping gear. If things don`t work out on Friday, and who knows what they are going to come up with, you might want to go for a nice long paddle.

A lot of people over here in OZ are rooting for the Pack though, don`t worry.

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45 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Asda Walmart’s. You still trying to twist an arm up somebody’s back, I see..

That’s the issue here. Someone is trying to dictate to the sport. The sport will simply say goodbye.

I take it that would be a strong No?

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