The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[The Rocket 1,486]

38 minutes ago, Quolls2020 said:

He was not meant to be there nor were any Wolfpack representatives.

this was a Super League board discussion on the Wolfpack’s proposal/plan not a presentation of the proposal itself. Discussions between LiVolsi, Wolfpack’s executive and a Super League had already taken place.

As the proposal was found wanting, wolfpack have been given the opportunity To elaborate and clarify (and improve) their proposal.

below is the publicised timeline:

By September 18th, the Super League executives will provide an appraisal of Canada’s value to Super League, with Super League chief executive Robert Elstone apparently unconvinced of its value, while they also expect the RFL to announce any sanctions to apply to the Canadian club.

 

Crucially, an appraisal of the Wolfpack’s application is also set to be submitted on the 18th, which will include input from both Super League and the RFL.

 

By the same date, the RFL will have confirmed the sanctions that would be imposed on the club if its re-entry were to be accepted.

 

A recommendation on Toronto will be sent from the executives to the clubs on September 21st, before a final decision is made by Super League board on the 25th.

 

There are two key elements that will sway the decision. First, the strategic vision for expansion in Canada and second, the viability of Toronto’s bid, which will need to provide assurances on the legitimacy of their prospective new owner and an agreement on their participation conditions.

 

If Toronto’s return is accepted, LiVolsi will be invited to present in front of the clubs in the week commencing September 28th.

O.K. if there were meant to be no WolfPack representatives there ,good, that clears that up.

I like the  look of the time line, it looks well ordered. However what happened to the September 18th announcement on sanctions to be applied.

And if a meeting had already taken place between LiVolsi and Super League surely they could have cleared up exactly what was going to be required. Let`s hope as CanadianRugger suggested it`s just details.

The optimist in us is hard to extinguish, but Elstone words were 'disappointed", I know nothing about the man so I don`t know his manner, maybe I am putting the wrong slant on that response. Maybe this is just another negotiating ploy, i.e. `not good enough come back with something better`. We live in hope.

[Gooleboy 1,563]

4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Whether they know it or not, they are in a desperate situation.

Their game is gradually falling further and further behind the other sports in Britain and without the likes of Toronto and New York it has no way to turn that around.  During the 25 years since the SL money saved the sport in Britain from collapse it has failed to deliver sufficient value to Sky to maintain its place on their schedule.  Being ejected from the Saturday night time slot they once had and having to make do with one on Thursday night instead is one indication of that.  SL matches being shunted onto lesser Sky channels is another.

However whether a way can be found to make the Toronto venture financially viable within the constraints under which the SL and RFL operate remains to be seen.  Can a square peg fit into a round hole?

New York?????

[ATLANTISMAN 1,145]

Its a ALL a front as i have stated before DA will still be the man behind it and most in SL know this.

 

P 

[Man of Kent 7,860]

8 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Its a ALL a front as i have stated before DA will still be the man behind it and most in SL know this.

 

P 

Moral hazard?

[Hela Wigmen 2,802]

34 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Its a ALL a front as i have stated before DA will still be the man behind it and most in SL know this.

 

P 

Did you just decide to brush over this new fella claiming he dislikes Argyle and they had a big falling out because of the way Racist Dave acted with this business?

[Davo5 5,088]

5 hours ago, SL17 said:

. TWP were told you would become SL’s problem. It’s on here and well debated. 
 

Drop back into Champ and regroup. My final post in this thread.

That didn’t last long !!

See you tonight Derek 

[Toby Chopra 1,488]

Makes sense to delay the decision if there's a possibility that they could return. Clearly some SL clubs think a financially stable Wolfpack would be worth having in 2021, given the current wider circumstances in the country. (Although strangely Elstone doesn't). 

But at the same time, SL/RFL need to crack on and say what Plan B is. If it's 11 teams, fine. 

But if it's going to be some sort of process which awards a place to a championship team, they need to start that now, so the selected team has at least a chance to assemble a FT squad that won't get smashed every game next year. If we leave it another month it'll be too late. 

Realistically, the only teams who could possibly step up are the ones that have a FT player base to start with: London, Toulouse, and Leigh given their signings made for next year. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep 3,492]

23 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Makes sense to delay the decision if there's a possibility that they could return. Clearly some SL clubs think a financially stable Wolfpack would be worth having in 2021, given the current wider circumstances in the country. (Although strangely Elstone doesn't). 

But at the same time, SL/RFL need to crack on and say what Plan B is. If it's 11 teams, fine. 

But if it's going to be some sort of process which awards a place to a championship team, they need to start that now, so the selected team has at least a chance to assemble a FT squad that won't get smashed every game next year. If we leave it another month it'll be too late. 

Realistically, the only teams who could possibly step up are the ones that have a FT player base to start with: London, Toulouse, and Leigh given their signings made for next year. 

London only seem to have 14 players signed up at the moment.

[Quolls2020 34]

The Super League executive  were meant to give their opinion on Canada’s future value to the game to the Super League board, I would assume given yesterday’s news that they did and a wider examination will take place, it was not an opinion on the Wolfpack per se.

The RFL were scheduled to develop a penalty for the Wolfpack, but I think there was a difficulty in that the Wolfpack, at the moment, are not a member to penalise.

the Wolfpack did lodge the required documents by the deadline and the Super League Board were given a week to examine.

and disappointing was the result.

another month to wait.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Quolls2020
Word omission

[Mushy 362]

14 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Buying a Paris shirt 20 years ago didnt make you and investor marra...

You’re a real comedian. 

[Whippet13 1,366]

2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Its a ALL a front as i have stated before DA will still be the man behind it and most in SL know this.

 

P 

Do you have any proof of this, even if it is just circumstantial evidence?

If so, could you share please.

Not being arsey or anything, given dodgy DA's record I am genuinely interested to know if there is any truth in this allegation.

[Harry Stottle 4,227]

If this ultimatum of the Livolsi presentation is correct that he is DEMANDING that if accepted Toronto should be free from relegation for 3 years just tell him to feck off right now. 

[Tommygilf 7,786]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

If this ultimatum of the Livolsi presentation is correct that he is DEMANDING that if accepted Toronto should be free from relegation for 3 years just tell him to feck off right now. 

You'd make an excellent EU negotiator Harry

[Robin Evans 4,727]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

If this ultimatum of the Livolsi presentation is correct that he is DEMANDING that if accepted Toronto should be free from relegation for 3 years just tell him to feck off right now. 

Yup!

[ATLANTISMAN 1,145]

11 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Yup!

Cant blame him really if I was DA I would.

 

P 

[ATLANTISMAN 1,145]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If this ultimatum of the Livolsi presentation is correct that he is DEMANDING that if accepted Toronto should be free from relegation for 3 years just tell him to feck off right now. 

Hi Harry,

Its all a front anyway talk to anyone in SL and they are pretty much of the opinion that DA is still pulling the strings.

 

P 

 

[Harry Stottle 4,227]

23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You'd make an excellent EU negotiator Harry

I'd tell them to feck off as well

[Tommygilf 7,786]

Super league clubs and the games leadership need to grasp the narrative here and take control. If its still an Argyle show and/or the presentation for the new owners is poor they need to be changing the narrative along those lines.

If the reasons to not allow Toronto back are perfectly valid and not simply protectionist prejudice that's fine, but we're getting nowt and the opacity leads people to assume the worst in all situations.

[Tommygilf 7,786]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I'd tell them to feck off as well

I'm sure you would but I meant as a negotiator for them not against!

[Harry Stottle 4,227]

9 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Hi Harry,

Its all a front anyway talk to anyone in SL and they are pretty much of the opinion that DA is still pulling the strings.

 

P 

 

If so, why this stay of execution, just don the black hood and pull the trap door.

[Quolls2020 34]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If so, why this stay of execution, just don the black hood and pull the trap door.

Perhaps certain people in Super League want to give them every chance to prove they are not viable.

 

 

[Blind side johnny 6,551]

16 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Agreed. They seem open minded.

The interesting thing is SL has taken over doing the homework on whether transatlantic rugby is viable from the RFL. If it’s a no to Toronto, it’s a no to Ottawa and New York as well.

No, they are assessing the viability of SL in Canada. Splitting hairs, I know, but a quite different analysis is involved in my opinion.

[Blind side johnny 6,551]

10 hours ago, TIWIT said:

If they weren't going to readmit TWP then why would they postpone their decision? The fact they did suggests they at least are keeping an open mind.

 

Does this sound open-minded: “The clubs were open minded enough to say that if you do it right second time, it’s robust and every box is ticked, that they would consider it fairly and objectively at that time."

I think that it still reads strongly against whilst avoiding any blame for the failure of the application.

[Harry Stottle 4,227]

3 minutes ago, Quolls2020 said:

Perhaps certain people in Super League want to give them every chance to prove they are not viable.

 

 

Off course, and in the bit that says "Is Canada suitable for RL" they can get rid of Ottawa also while they are at it, that will save having to through all this again in a couple or 3 years time.

I like your thinking Quolls

[Blind side johnny 6,551]

13 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Doesn’t say anything about the CRLA, it says NA clubs.

They are reviewing the decision by the RFL to allow Toronto and Ottawa in, possibly with a view to getting rid of them. You’d think commitments by Toronto to Canadian player development will be part of this.

He can say what he wants but Elstone simply has a SL remit. He could, of course, indicate that SL wouldn't really look favourably upon any other NA applications but that isn't his style. More likely we could expect some weasel words which would ensure that any future problems would have been caused by anyone other than SL.