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Shaun Wane’s first England squad (merged threads)

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48 minutes ago, Scubby said:

acceptable = to make Australia have to win the 3rd test to regain the Ashes

achievement = 2-1 win

I like your optimism. If we win 1 game I would consider that a great success and a good start for SW.

I can't see anything other than a convincing 3 nil win for the Aussies. With one loss where we really push them. Then the SW out calls will be out.

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1 hour ago, AB90 said:

I like your optimism. If we win 1 game I would consider that a great success and a good start for SW.

I can't see anything other than a convincing 3 nil win for the Aussies. With one loss where we really push them. Then the SW out calls will be out.

Australia have won only 2 of their last 4 tests. That current squad is hardly invincible. 

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1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Australia have won only 2 of their last 4 tests. That current squad is hardly invincible. 

Eng/GB have lost their last 5 games! With one of those losses to PNG where the majority of the team plays reserve grade.

But I get your point. It's not invincible but it's a young side which will be better after another season of NRL. Our side is an ageing side on the decline. Q

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5 minutes ago, AB90 said:

Eng/GB have lost their last 5 games! With one of those losses to PNG where the majority of the team plays reserve grade.

But I get your point. It's not invincible but it's a young side which will be better after another season of NRL. Our side is an ageing side on the decline. Q

We have to throw some guys in with a view to 2021. That is the only potential problem. Graham will not get to the RLWC, O'Loughlin won't be able to get down the stairs by October 2021.

Some guys have to be thrown in - maybe before they are ready. We simply don't have the time or games to blood players like Trueman and Johnstone. We just have to chuck them in. 

Edited by Scubby
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9 minutes ago, Scubby said:

We have to throw some guys in with a view to 2021. That is the only potential problem. Graham will not get to the 2RLWC, O'Loughlin won't be able to get down the stairs by October 2021.

Some guys have to be thrown in - maybe before they are ready. We simply don't have the time or games to blood players like Trueman and Johnstone. We just have to chuck them in. 

Truemans situation is interesting. It all depends if Shaun Wane picks Austin and Hastings. If so, Trueman won't be needed for 2021. Plus William's, Lomax and an ageing Widdop. 

Theres only 2 spots so 4 won't make it

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23 minutes ago, AB90 said:

Truemans situation is interesting. It all depends if Shaun Wane picks Austin and Hastings. If so, Trueman won't be needed for 2021. Plus William's, Lomax and an ageing Widdop. 

Theres only 2 spots so 4 won't make it

The big question for me is whether Ricky Stuart can turn George Williams into a world class half back. He has Wighton at 6 and and has clearly decided that Williams for Sezer is a trade he wanted to make.

Williams has all the natural attributes to make the transition... a good passing and kicking game while he is an elusive runner.

If Williams can be that half I think he would complement Trueman very well and they could make a very effective partnership.

It will be fascinating to watch Williams in the NRL this year.

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I’ll be very surprised if Truman isn’t in the england set up by the WC , in fact I won’t be surprised if he’s in it this  year 

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1 hour ago, AB90 said:

Truemans situation is interesting. It all depends if Shaun Wane picks Austin and Hastings. If so, Trueman won't be needed for 2021. Plus William's, Lomax and an ageing Widdop. 

Theres only 2 spots so 4 won't make it

Not if you include the wings - all 4 can be accommodated 😉 

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9 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Savelio has looked terrific in two games. Let's see if he keeps it up for a few months (i.e. doesn't get bored like he usually does) before putting him in an England shirt.

Agree with that. If he can stay fit and stay as hungry as he seems to be now then he has to come into the conversation. But we are two games in and it's a long season. 

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2 hours ago, AB90 said:

Eng/GB have lost their last 5 games! With one of those losses to PNG where the majority of the team plays reserve grade.

But I get your point. It's not invincible but it's a young side which will be better after another season of NRL. Our side is an ageing side on the decline. Q

We don't really have a side; we have Bennett's last selection, which was wilfully odd and very unsuccessful. Let's wait and see who Wane has had his eye on. I doubt he'll pick the same as Bennett, and he has form in giving youth a chance.

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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3 hours ago, Scubby said:

We have to throw some guys in with a view to 2021. That is the only potential problem. Graham will not get to the RLWC, O'Loughlin won't be able to get down the stairs by October 2021.

Some guys have to be thrown in - maybe before they are ready. We simply don't have the time or games to blood players like Trueman and Johnstone. We just have to chuck them in. 

I don't understand why we would play players when they are not ready.  It serves no purpose for the team or the players themselves.

We would potentially have a disastrous defeat in the ashes and the players confidence will be shot.

Pick the best team for the ashes and pick the best team for the World Cup 12 months later.

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11 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I don't understand why we would play players when they are not ready.  It serves no purpose for the team or the players themselves.

We would potentially have a disastrous defeat in the ashes and the players confidence will be shot.

Pick the best team for the ashes and pick the best team for the World Cup 12 months later.

Normally they would get games but this is not going to happen. We had wing spots available for 2 GB tests and chose not to blood someone. We had Trueman on a full tour and chose not to give him a run out. Players like Garry Schofield, Shaun Edwards and Paul Newlove were chucked into the national side in their teens. Tom Johnstone will be 26 by the World Cup, and Mark Percival will be 27 - yet we don't know if these guys can cut it or not. Either we need more games or we just chuck them in.

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1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Normally they would get games but this is not going to happen. We had wing spots available for 2 GB tests and chose not to blood someone. We had Trueman on a full tour and chose not to give him a run out. Players like Garry Schofield, Shaun Edwards and Paul Newlove were chucked into the national side in their teens. Tom Johnstone will be 26 by the World Cup, and Mark Percival will be 27 - yet we don't know if these guys can cut it or not. Either we need more games or we just chuck them in.

I'm not saying don't play young players. I am saying play the best players.

I expect Thrueman to be in the team this year and I would hope the likes of Smithies gets a nod.

I just think the best way to manage an international team when we play so few games is simply to pick the best side from the available players each time. I don't care if the best player is 19 or 33, just pick the best.

The best possible preparation England can have for the World Cup is winning the ashes series... the confidence and momentum that would provide would be a million times better for England than giving a few players an extra 80 minutes. 

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I'm not saying don't play young players. I am saying play the best players.

I expect Thrueman to be in the team this year and I would hope the likes of Smithies gets a nod.

I just think the best way to manage an international team when we play so few games is simply to pick the best side from the available players each time. I don't care if the best player is 19 or 33, just pick the best.

The best possible preparation England can have for the World Cup is winning the ashes series... the confidence and momentum that would provide would be a million times better for England than giving a few players an extra 80 minutes. 

I agree with this. We don't play enough games to 'blood' kids with potential. Just pick the best team.

The Aussies haven't 'blooded' Payne Haas, Latrell Mitchell, Kalyn Ponga etc They've just picked the best 17 and they all happen to be in it regardless of what their birth certificate says.

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I'm not saying don't play young players. I am saying play the best players.

I expect Thrueman to be in the team this year and I would hope the likes of Smithies gets a nod.

I just think the best way to manage an international team when we play so few games is simply to pick the best side from the available players each time. I don't care if the best player is 19 or 33, just pick the best.

The best possible preparation England can have for the World Cup is winning the ashes series... the confidence and momentum that would provide would be a million times better for England than giving a few players an extra 80 minutes. 

The Aussies are on the slide, a big number of players in the NRL aren't even from Australia these days.

We send above average players like Hodgson over to the NRL who wasnt even in the top 3 in his position in SL and suddenly hes the best in the world. 

The Aussies are there for the taking this winter.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

The Aussies are on the slide, a big number of players in the NRL aren't even from Australia these days.

We send above average players like Hodgson over to the NRL who wasnt even in the top 3 in his position in SL and suddenly hes the best in the world. 

The Aussies are there for the taking this winter.

I agree that they are vulnerable.  They have some marvelous athletes in the outside backs and middle forwards but I don't think the 6, 7 & 9 combination will be anywhere near as good as the last time we played them with the likes of Cronk, Thurston and Smith gone.

I know we have said this before but there was always another great halfback combination knocking down the door but not this time. They are very good but not great 

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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I agree that they are vulnerable.  They have some marvelous athletes in the outside backs and middle forwards but I don't think the 6, 7 & 9 combination will be anywhere near as good as the last time we played them with the likes of Cronk, Thurston and Smith gone.

I know we have said this before but there was always another great halfback combination knocking down the door but not this time. They are very good but not great 

Not as good as the 2013 world cup team but what they have is some supreme athletes. Guys like David Fafita, Payne Haas, Latrell Mitchell,  Kalyn Ponga have the ability to be generational players.

We say the halves aren't what they were yet we have Blake Austin and Jackson Hastings who were never even close to making NSW. Let alone Australia.

Munster, Keary etc would all walk the Man of Steel award over here. 

Let mot under estimate.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

The Aussies are on the slide, a big number of players in the NRL aren't even from Australia these days.

We send above average players like Hodgson over to the NRL who wasnt even in the top 3 in his position in SL and suddenly hes the best in the world. 

The Aussies are there for the taking this winter.

I think you're right with Aussies due to the halves. 

For me it's the halves which have set Australia apart and for the 1st time in my life time they don't have decent replacements for those retiring. 

Lockyer/Cronk/Thurston always performed at least 9/10 every game and never went missing in big games or on the back foot. (same with Cameron Smith) and I can't say this about the current crop of Aussie halves. Wighton, Moses, Keary, Munster, Hunt and Moses seem to be in the Shaun Johnson mold of can look like the best player in the world on their day but can go missing when they're on the back foot or tough games. 

Think the Tonga game showed this. When they were on the back foot they did nothing, whilst the names I mentioned would put Aus on the front door despite the forwards on the back foot. That's the sign of a truly world class half back which I don't think there truly is anymore. 

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2 minutes ago, AB90 said:

Not as good as the 2013 world cup team but what they have is some supreme athletes. Guys like David Fafita, Payne Haas, Latrell Mitchell,  Kalyn Ponga have the ability to be generational players.

We say the halves aren't what they were yet we have Blake Austin and Jackson Hastings who were never even close to making NSW. Let alone Australia.

Munster, Keary etc would all walk the Man of Steel award over here. 

Let mot under estimate.

After watching us come up short against them for 36 years, I am not going to underestimate them.

But Munster and Keary are 25 and 28 and are only coming to the fore at Origin and international level due to legends retiring. As I say, they are very good but not great.

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

After watching us come up short against them for 36 years, I am not going to underestimate them.

But Munster and Keary are 25 and 28 and are only coming to the fore at Origin and international level due to legends retiring. As I say, they are very good but not great.

There not great in comparison to Thurston, Cronk, Lockyer, John etc. But these are arguably top 5 at their position in the history of rugby league.

However, agree with what your saying.

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30 minutes ago, AB90 said:

Not as good as the 2013 world cup team but what they have is some supreme athletes. Guys like David Fafita, Payne Haas, Latrell Mitchell,  Kalyn Ponga have the ability to be generational players.

I agree with you about Payne Hass and David Fifita by the way.

While the current halves are not the same as the recent past, I don't think it is any exaggeration to say these two could become the best front and back row forwards I have ever seen.... at their age I have never seen better.

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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I agree with you about Payne Hass and David Fifita by the way.

While the current halves are not the same as the recent past, I don't think it is any exaggeration to say these two could become the best front and back row forwards I have ever seen.... at their age I have never seen better.

Agreed. In the history of rugby league I don't think there's ever been a better 19 year old prop and second row foward like these two. Imagine when there 24!

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Players who’s England international days should be over 

  • Hardaker
  • Hall
  • Graham
  • O’Loughlin
  • Coote
  • Hodgeson
  • Hill
  • Austin
  • Watkins
  • Hastings

Players who might have a decent chance of selection under Wane

  • Shaul
  • Johnstone
  • Percival
  • Watts
  • Trueman
  • Nualago
  • Griffin
  • Richardson
  • Clarke
  • Evalds
  • Sevelio 
  • Sneyd
  • Currie

Something along the lines of

Tompkins, McGilvery, Percival, Griffin, Makinson, Williams, Trueman, Walmsley, Roby, Thompson, Whitehead, Bateman, Sevelio. Subs: Clarke, Watts, T Burgess, Currie

 

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14 hours ago, DavidM said:

 

 

Agree with these . 

Watched savelio for first time on Saturday here in Australia. He has makings, overall the gb tour showed simply picking nrl players by default not always the best option. 

 

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