Niall Evalds’ departure enforces a reality Salford don’t want to accept anymore

[Total Rugby League]

Food chains are apparent in all walks of life. rugby league is no different. Unfortunately for Salford Red Devils, they have been somewhere near the...

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[Oxford]

"The sadness and animosity surrounding his departure isn’t because it marks the end of an era, but that it reinforces a reality Salford thought they no longer had to accept."

I'm not sure this is it at all. Right now I'm sorry Evalds is leaving, and that's it. I'm really tired of rebuilding every season but that seems almost inevitable. It is dispiriting and on the end of season after season of doing just that does bring you to a point where you think the tunnel's never ending.

Having said all that the bunch of idiots who had a go at Cas Tiger's Nial Evalds are right out of order and need to get a grip. If there is some one available  out there now Salford would be happy with for next year I'd do a season swap deal and move on.

[Pie tries]

Sad news all round. Salford been punching above their weight. They will carry on and will replace him. 

[Red Willow]

Just another negative piece RL hacks really don't seem to like the game or the average club.

No change for Salford, apart from the few years of Doc madness we haven't had money for years, probably since John Wilkinson took over. Every year we release about 7 or 8 players. It is the norm. We recovered from losing Ratchford and Sneyd we will do the same with Evalds.

The real loss would be losing Watson.  

[Tommygilf]

41 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

The real loss would be losing Watson

And with Hull FC currently without a head coach...

Its a deliberately controversial article but it details a serious problem Salford consistently have.

[Oxford]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a deliberately controversial article but it details a serious problem Salford consistently have.

Anyone would be sad to see their best players leave and if Salford can only be competitive and retain players by having a financial backer  then that's something worth considering. It will always make a mockery of any idea that SL is a level playing field. It's just proof that wasn't ever, isn't now and never will be true.

[Harry Stottle]

22 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Anyone would be sad to see their best players leave and if Salford can only be competitive and retain players by having a financial backer  then that's something worth considering. It will always make a mockery of any idea that SL is a level playing field. It's just proof that wasn't ever, isn't now and never will be true.

And what you say would only be exasperated by the oft called for abolishing of the Salary Cap, funnily enough the loudest calls are from spectators and clubs who are wealthy enough to spend more, conversely the cries of no increase are from those who cannot afford to spend more, perhap's if we get through this crisis there should be a new system developed, let those who want the increase all five of them go on their merry way and play amongst themselves 7 games a season against each of the same opposition for 28 games in total, would that entice any TV company to invest to broadcast, I doubt it very much.

[Tommygilf]

28 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Anyone would be sad to see their best players leave and if Salford can only be competitive and retain players by having a financial backer  then that's something worth considering. It will always make a mockery of any idea that SL is a level playing field. It's just proof that wasn't ever, isn't now and never will be true.

The stuff like the cap that have been brought in are inherently biased towards the big clubs - poorer clubs can keep up to an extent but as a package it is big team favoured. We don't have a draft system or any other system to readdress the balance.

Big teams love the cap.

That said if you want to compete you can't complain when you've not got the resources to do so even when the comp is kept artificially low paid.

[Oxford]

53 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And what you say would only be exasperated by the oft called for abolishing of the Salary Cap,

 

43 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

We don't have a draft system or any other system to readdress the balance.

Big teams love the cap.

There has never been a debate about it, not the salary cap, but the notion of level filed, what it means, what it should look like etc,

I didn't bring up the cap. and don't want to discuss it but a discussion about how we organise a level playing field might be a start.

1) Truly disappointed he's gone.

2) No one on social media should be insulting hime for leaving.

3) He shouldn't be responding in the press.

4) Good luck to him but can we swap him right now who Watto likes the look of?

[dkw]

I don`t understand what Evald`s and Castleford are supposed to have done wrong here, why are either getting abuse?

[Harry Stottle]

42 minutes ago, Oxford said:

 

There has never been a debate about it, not the salary cap, but the notion of level filed, what it means, what it should look like etc,

I didn't bring up the cap. and don't want to discuss it but a discussion about how we organise a level playing field might be a start.

No I brought up the SC,  to emphasise your statement of a level playing field, if the cap was no more it would effect every club, those who can barely afford up to the level we have in place now even with the £2M recieved from distribution could not compete,

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

That said if you want to compete you can't complain when you've not got the resources to do so even when the comp is kept artificially low paid.

You could bet your bottom dollar those who can afford to pay more would want more from the pot simply to pay more wages to mostly the same player's, there is no guarantee paying more money would increase revenue for the club's, it would just be a raise in their commitments.

Do you see a raise in the cap level as a lever to increase the resources of SL clubs, if yes, please explain why that would happen. 

[Father Ted]

Maybe they should go for Lewis Tierney. He can play full back or wing and has pace. Not as good as Evalds but he's now an experienced SL player.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You could bet your bottom dollar those who can afford to pay more would want more from the pot simply to pay more wages to mostly the same player's, there is no guarantee paying more money would increase revenue for the club's, it would just be a raise in their commitments.

Do you see a raise in the cap level as a lever to increase the resources of SL clubs, if yes, please explain why that would happen. 

Those players deserve a raise, its their wages that have not increased in nearly two decades. Any initial raise (as we have seen in the past season or so) will almost certainly be used trying to keep up with the competition of particularly the NRL but also RU. I doubt whether a small increase will help but an increase (in whatever format - marquee players, special England exemptions for example) that could reverse the talent drain could help reverse the general decline in crowds over the past 10 or so years. People will pay to see top class talent, but clubs have to be able to and willing to pay to bring that in.

Your point illustrates perfectly why the top clubs love it. Wakefield, Salford or Leigh would normally have to pay over the odds to have the same player come to them as opposed to Leeds or Wigan, and the cap is set lower to make sure clubs like Wakefield or Leigh don't fall out of touch but also prevents them from being responsive to market demands should an investor want to invest in the squad. Leeds and Wigan's chairmen can offer lower wages to better players to keep their clubs at the top because players will take less pay to play at the games leading clubs. Add to the fact these clubs then leverage success at senior level to recruit the best juniors and the inequality is compounded. 

[Barry Badrinath]

just on another slant on this, warrington have been doing rewatches of certain games, with about half an hour of pre-amble with current/ex players.

Ratchford does a couple of minutes on his departure from salford, which is quite interesting to get an insight on.

 

Generally its a good chat as well, if you've got half an hour spare 

 

 

 

[Harry Stottle]

38 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Those players deserve a raise, its their wages that have not increased in nearly two decades. Any initial raise (as we have seen in the past season or so) will almost certainly be used trying to keep up with the competition of particularly the NRL but also RU. I doubt whether a small increase will help but an increase (in whatever format - marquee players, special England exemptions for example) that could reverse the talent drain could help reverse the general decline in crowds over the past 10 or so years. People will pay to see top class talent, but clubs have to be able to and willing to pay to bring that in.

Your point illustrates perfectly why the top clubs love it. Wakefield, Salford or Leigh would normally have to pay over the odds to have the same player come to them as opposed to Leeds or Wigan, and the cap is set lower to make sure clubs like Wakefield or Leigh don't fall out of touch but also prevents them from being responsive to market demands should an investor want to invest in the squad. Leeds and Wigan's chairmen can offer lower wages to better players to keep their clubs at the top because players will take less pay to play at the games leading clubs. Add to the fact these clubs then leverage success at senior level to recruit the best juniors and the inequality is compounded. 

All very well, how many clubs can afford to pay more? I estimate five.

[Harry Stottle]

15 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

just on another slant on this, warrington have been doing rewatches of certain games, with about half an hour of pre-amble with current/ex players.

Ratchford does a couple of minutes on his departure from salford, which is quite interesting to get an insight on.

 

Generally its a good chat as well, if you've got half an hour spare 

 

 

 

Thanks Barry, I will view that later.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

All very well, how many clubs can afford to pay more? I estimate five.

I'd say every one in SL bar Cas, Wakey and Salford atm. Basically anyone who's up to cap now and had capacity, pre-covid, to have marquee signings.

Pre covid with investors able to invest we'd see more. Beaumont at your own club is an excellent example of someone pushing for the financial rules to be altered to enable investment. Koukash and now Argyle are the most recent examples in Super League. How covid affects new investors going forwards who knows. 

[Bleep1673]

Much as I hate saying this, but, Salford will bounce back. They have a Play off squad, and a great (Swinton fan) coach, as much as the Yorkie nay sayers would love to just have a 14 team, Yorkshire based Superleague, its not going to happen.

I am now going to wash my mouth out with soapy water. Grrrrr

[Bleep1673]

Losing Hastings in November,  and Evalds now, will not stop their overall growth, development & research.

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I'd say every one in SL bar Cas, Wakey and Salford atm. Basically anyone who's up to cap now and had capacity, pre-covid, to have marquee signings.

Pre covid with investors able to invest we'd see more. Beaumont at your own club is an excellent example of someone pushing for the financial rules to be altered to enable investment. Koukash and now Argyle are the most recent examples in Super League. How covid affects new investors going forwards who knows. 

Really Tommy, not to long ago a club I would have put in can afford it bracket would have been Hull FC, considering Mr Pearson was the first to 'cry poverty' in this crisis now I am not to sure also considering that they are not asset rich - in a rented facility - would not help, Wigan also fall into that bracket, nevertheless I would still include Wigan along with Warrington, Saints, Leeds, Catalan and Toronto, so 6 not 5 as I said previously, so along with your Cas, Wakey and Salford, I will add both Hull Clubs and Huddersfield who I think would struggle with an abolished SC.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Really Tommy, not to long ago a club I would have put in canal afford it bracket would have been Hull FC, considering Mr Pearson was the first to 'cry poverty' in this crisis now I am not to sure also considering that they are not asset rich - in a rented facility - would not help, Wigan also fall into that bracket, nevertheless I would still include Wigan along with Warrington, Saints, Leeds, Catalan and Toronto, so 6 not 5 as I said previously, so along with your Cas, Wakey and Salford, I will add both Hull Clubs and Huddersfield who I think would struggle with an abolished SC.

I think abolished is the wrong point though, its about having room for flexibility whilst recognising the world has moved on from 2002. That's coming in certain aspects but is still way behind in other ways.

History can't be reversed and without clever investment its hard to see how they can escape this rut. Keeping hold of Ian Watson will be essential but could you really blame him if an opportunity at a club with resources came up, just like Evalds or Hastings or Ratchford or Myler has before him. Even then Evalds has moved to Cas who are another rung up the foodchain but still at a lower level than others and have been in a similar position to Salford. That's part of the reason I don't understand the abuse he's getting.

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

No I brought up the SC,  to emphasise your statement of a level playing field, if the cap was no more it would effect every club, those who can barely afford up to the level we have in place now even with the £2M recieved from distribution could not compete,

The discussion of how to create a level field would mean a commitment to take away more or less guaranteed status and success by those whose self interest has guided much of what SL has been about and so...

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

A level playing field doesnt exist. You are simply choosing to handicap some clubs to make the game more.competitive. which is a fine aim but incompatible with the structures we have not only in principle but in practice.

I'm afraid that deciding it doesn't exist means no one is looking for it. It need not handicap anyone if a system works widely. I think your point about the total they put into their developement is a good one but while they remain top of the tree they can do that and if you remain low chances are you can't.

[Oxford]

7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

To create any kind of level playing field would need a massive paradigm shift the is in almost total opposition to pretty much any structure we have.

Yes that's true. No question that it would mean huge change just to confront the ideas beyond the box of club self - interest.

 

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It is impossible in the world the game inhabits at the moment. Just doesnt exist and isnt possible to create.

I don't think it's necessarily impossible just outside what we've been used. have learned to expect but all this from Evalds leaving seems a bit of a stretch, quite happy to discuus it though.

 

13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

You would need to invest massively in amateur RL, you would need to scrap P+R, you would need the creation of a feeder league, you would need to scrap the current academy system and take money from the top of feed it in to youth development, you would need massive investment at the lower end of SL and you would need buy in from every level in a 20-30year plan. 

I think this would, at least be a starting point of a discussion.

[Bob8]

10 hours ago, Red Willow said:

Just another negative piece RL hacks really don't seem to like the game or the average club.

No change for Salford, apart from the few years of Doc madness we haven't had money for years, probably since John Wilkinson took over. Every year we release about 7 or 8 players. It is the norm. We recovered from losing Ratchford and Sneyd we will do the same with Evalds.

The real loss would be losing Watson.  

Don't tell everyone!