Catalans & Play-offs

[Saint Toppy]

33 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Thete is no credibility in tbe NRL system then? Never mind that it makes a fortune?

There was no credibility in the old Top 16 playoff? Never mind it was to make money.

The playoffs are there because not everyone plays everyone else, home and away.  And that currently is the silly mess we are in.  

The is of course no space for an extra knock out round... rather we are running our players into the ground to squeeze the regular games in.  But this is the trouble with British Rugby League, it is hidebound.

Lets not pretend that having a play-off system & GF is there for any other reason than to generate money. It is not and never will be a credible way of determining who the best team is in the league. Having a simple home & away fixture list with the champions being the team that finishes top of the league will always be the best way of determining the best team and a true measure of the champions.

But unfortunately we're not in a cash rich sport so they have to manufacture ways to generate additional income to the detriment of the credibility of the trophy at the end of it.

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Making money does not equate to credibility and this is a discussion about Super League. In a 12 team league I prefer a top 5 play off. For me its the best system with the fairest reward for performance over the season. Others may think differently and that is their perogative. 

I agree a top five would be best for a 12 team league.  But I was suggesting something basic and simple given we have stumbled into a crazy situation.  

The fact is that several competitions, with different sports, all over the world have systems where not every team play each other, and they are hugely profitable and high profile along with it. And our own dear archaic rugby league did that for decades, some call it "The Golden Age".

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Lets not pretend that having a play-off system & GF is there for any other reason than to generate money. It is not and never will be a credible way of determining who the best team is in the league. Having a simple home & away fixture list with the champions being the team that finishes top of the league will always be the best way of determining the best team and a true measure of the champions.

But unfortunately we're not in a cash rich sport so they have to manufacture ways to generate additional income to the detriment of the credibility of the trophy at the end of it.

If you look carefully at things like "Magic" and "Loop Fixtures" you will see we get uneven and unfair fixture lists.  This is one reason that we have playoffs.  Thats really why play offs are required and are popular all over the world.   A eell as a popular end of season play off it also tests the mettle of the top 5 or so clubs. 

Professional sport exists to make money.   

 

[Sports Prophet]

On 19/10/2020 at 17:10, SL17 said:

"To qualify for the Play Offs, a team must have played a minimum of 15 matches - unless they end the regular season in the Top Four on competition points anyway."

How does this make any sense? It is literally a worthless sentence.

[Sports Prophet]

10 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Lets not pretend that having a play-off system & GF is there for any other reason than to generate money. It is not and never will be a credible way of determining who the best team is in the league. Having a simple home & away fixture list with the champions being the team that finishes top of the league will always be the best way of determining the best team and a true measure of the champions.

But unfortunately we're not in a cash rich sport so they have to manufacture ways to generate additional income to the detriment of the credibility of the trophy at the end of it.

Couldn’t disagree more.

The GF is the best way to determine the best team in a season. I can’t think of any club in my living memory that won the GF that were not deserving NRL/NSWRL champions.

There is no such thing as an even fixture list. It’s a pipe dream. You can try and make it as even as possible, but it’s an impossible goal. There are too many variables. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

Mondays game against Warrington has been cancelled according to RFL website. 

[LeeF]

21 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

How does this make any sense? It is literally a worthless sentence.

It makes perfect sense and is far from a worthless sentence as it is required in the context of the requirements

[Sports Prophet]

On 24/10/2020 at 10:37, SL17 said:

It’s quoted from the link above. Try reading it.

It makes sense to me. Obviously not to the profounders of the sport.

Looks like you found a new home for Brierley again. 

I understand it’s a quote, I’m not judging the poster, I’m judging the creditability of the statement.

On 25/10/2020 at 03:09, LeeF said:

It makes perfect sense and is far from a worthless sentence as it is required in the context of the requirements

“To qualify for the Play Offs, a team must have played a minimum of 15 matches - unless they end the regular season in the Top Four on competition points anyway."

So you don’t have to play 15 games if you get enough competition points to make the top 4... Then what is the point of mandating a minimum of 15 games? I don’t get it. 

[LeeF]

36 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I understand it’s a quote, I’m not judging the poster, I’m judging the creditability of the statement.

“To qualify for the Play Offs, a team must have played a minimum of 15 matches - unless they end the regular season in the Top Four on competition points anyway."

So you don’t have to play 15 games if you get enough competition points to make the top 4... Then what is the point of mandating a minimum of 15 games? I don’t get it. 

It’s simple. If you only play say 6 games but win them all then you have 100% but don’t qualify. However if you play say 13 games getting 26 points then you may qualify if you are Top 4 but may not if you are 5th as others have more points. It really isn’t difficult 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

In following the fortunes of Les Dracs, I find the loose use of 'cancel' and 'postpone' to be very confusing and hence irritating, especially when, as in at least one SL announcement, they are used as synonyms.  They are not!

The Dragons' website shows them as having four games still in the schedule.  They are Salford, away, 2nd November; St Helens, home, 5th Nov; Hull KR, venue TBA, 9th Nov; and Huddersfield, venue TBA, 13th Nov.

I think the Salford fixture may be a recent addition to that list.  Managing to play three out of those four would get them to 15 games.

[wiganermike]

2 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

In following the fortunes of Les Dracs, I find the loose use of 'cancel' and 'postpone' to be very confusing and hence irritating, especially when, as in at least one SL announcement, they are used as synonyms.  They are not!

The Dragons' website shows them as having four games still in the schedule.  They are Salford, away, 2nd November; St Helens, home, 5th Nov; Hull KR, venue TBA, 9th Nov; and Huddersfield, venue TBA, 13th Nov.

I think the Salford fixture may be a recent addition to that list.  Managing to play three out of those four would get them to 15 games.

Unless some form of fixture re-jig happens then the cancelled games earlier in the season will work out well for the Catalans (assuming they win more than they lose of their remaining games) as they will have a chance to make the top four whilst only having played Wigan (2nd), Warrington (3rd), Leeds (5th) and Hull FC (6th) once in the season. Come to think of it maybe that is behind the rumours of changes to the fixtures and/or playoff structure being considered.

[Sports Prophet]

7 hours ago, LeeF said:

It’s simple. If you only play say 6 games but win them all then you have 100% but don’t qualify. However if you play say 13 games getting 26 points then you may qualify if you are Top 4 but may not if you are 5th as others have more points. It really isn’t difficult 

If you have 26 points from 13 games which is the 5th highest, then you will miss out, because you finished 5th. Alternatively if you have 26 points which is the 4th highest, you will qualify, because you finished 4th. Is it a top 4 playoff? If it all depends on how many competition points you earn, when does it ever matter how many games you play?

[LeeF]

3 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

If you have 26 points from 13 games which is the 5th highest, then you will miss out, because you finished 5th. Alternatively if you have 26 points which is the 4th highest, you will qualify, because you finished 4th. Is it a top 4 playoff? If it all depends on how many competition points you earn, when does it ever matter how many games you play?

If you have 26 points from 13 games you would have 100% and be top but if the points would also keep you in the Top 4 you are in. If you would be 5th based on points you are out. It is very simple & both qualifying caveats are required

[Sports Prophet]

3 minutes ago, LeeF said:

If you have 26 points from 13 games you would have 100% and be top but if the points would also keep you in the Top 4 you are in. If you would be 5th based on points you are out. It is very simple & both qualifying caveats are required

So you are out if you were 5th no matter how many games you played, but if you were 4th you would be in, no matter how many games you played?

Is the finals system a top 4 or 6 or 8?

[LeeF]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

So you are out if you were 5th no matter how many games you played, but if you were 4th you would be in, no matter how many games you played?

Is the finals system a top 4 or 6 or 8?

Last time as I think you are trolling

The table is decided on a percentage basis with the points caveat I have explained above. It is currently Top 4.
 

All this is very very clearly explained on the RFL and SL sites. On various media announcements and on sites like the one you are currently on

[Sports Prophet]

6 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Last time as I think you are trolling

The table is decided on a percentage basis with the points caveat I have explained above. It is currently Top 4.
 

All this is very very clearly explained on the RFL and SL sites. On various media announcements and on sites like the one you are currently on

Ahhh, so it’s a percentage basis not competition points basis, well that was the first I read of it. That little piece of information makes all the difference.

No I wasn’t trolling either.

[DEANO]

On 23/10/2020 at 23:14, Sports Prophet said:

Couldn’t disagree more.

The GF is the best way to determine the best team in a season. I can’t think of any club in my living memory that won the GF that were not deserving NRL/NSWRL champions.

There is no such thing as an even fixture list. It’s a pipe dream. You can try and make it as even as possible, but it’s an impossible goal. There are too many variables. 

Why is there no such thing as an even future list. Get rid of magic and play home and away fixtures. In your world it’s right to call the champions the winners of a cup competition at the end of the season as its fair. Why not play off for the play offs and for relegation 

[Sports Prophet]

14 hours ago, DEANO said:

Why is there no such thing as an even future list. Get rid of magic and play home and away fixtures. In your world it’s right to call the champions the winners of a cup competition at the end of the season as its fair. Why not play off for the play offs and for relegation 

You think full Home and Away is even? It’s evener, but not even. Like I say, too many variables, such as

- average travel distances per game

- number of Thursday starts vs Sunday starts

- number of 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 day turnarounds

- players on loan during the season

- who you play in winter and who you play in summer

there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of variables, that even a full home and away schedule can not appease. However, in the finals, it’s two teams, playing in the same conditions at the same venue against each other and the best team wins and progresses.

[HawkMan]

14 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You think full Home and Away is even? It’s evener, but not even. Like I say, too many variables, such as

- average travel distances per game

- number of Thursday starts vs Sunday starts

- number of 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 day turnarounds

- players on loan during the season

- who you play in winter and who you play in summer

there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of variables, that even a full home and away schedule can not appease. However, in the finals, it’s two teams, playing in the same conditions at the same venue against each other and the best team wins and progresses.

Someone should tell the Premier League that home and away isn't fair, and Liverpool only won the title because they played some teams in August and others in February and it's all unfair. 

[Sports Prophet]

2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Someone should tell the Premier League that home and away isn't fair, and Liverpool only won the title because they played some teams in August and others in February and it's all unfair. 

Or just reverse that idea and tell every Champions League, Euro Cup and WC winner that the knock out system wasn’t fair because they didn’t play against the same teams and it’s all unfair.

Im just saying there is a very good reason to argue that a finals system is the fairest way to decide the champion. If you disagree, that’s fine, but don’t be patronising about it. 

[DEANO]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

You think full Home and Away is even? It’s evener, but not even. Like I say, too many variables, such as

- average travel distances per game

- number of Thursday starts vs Sunday starts

- number of 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 day turnarounds

- players on loan during the season

- who you play in winter and who you play in summer

there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of variables, that even a full home and away schedule can not appease. However, in the finals, it’s two teams, playing in the same conditions at the same venue against each other and the best team wins and progresses.

Lol. You’ve just described a season

[Damien]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Or just reverse that idea and tell every Champions League, Euro Cup and WC winner that the knock out system wasn’t fair because they didn’t play against the same teams and it’s all unfair.

Im just saying there is a very good reason to argue that a finals system is the fairest way to decide the champion. If you disagree, that’s fine, but don’t be patronising about it. 

I think you are confusing a league and a cup.

[ATLANTISMAN]

Just wondered what the situation will be with the Dragons now with the 1 month lockdown.

 

P 

[DEANO]

Maybe we should just skip the ‘season’ and have a final by alphabetical order. The first and the last in the alphabet to make it fair

[Sports Prophet]

14 hours ago, DEANO said:

Lol. You’ve just described a season

Yep, that was the intention.