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May I suggest LBSA/BOSG types on here think about forming some sort of working group on the groundshare with a view to liaising with the Dons Trust?

Working together to boost crowds is key. 

Edited by Man of Kent
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3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

May I suggest LBSA/BOSG types on here think about forming some sort of working group on the groundshare with a view to liaising with the Dons Trust?

Working together to boost crowds is key. 

BOSG was set up specifically to not be the LBSA. So far as I can tell, continuing LBSA efforts to collaborate have been regularly rebuffed. I am sure that the LBSA is already doing whatever it can but they need the club's blessing if they are to move from outsider to insider.

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2 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

BOSG was set up specifically to not be the LBSA. So far as I can tell, continuing LBSA efforts to collaborate have been regularly rebuffed. I am sure that the LBSA is already doing whatever it can but they need the club's blessing if they are to move from outsider to insider.

Well, this ought not need the club’s blessing. LBSA can liaise directly with the Dons Trust.

If I was the LBSA I’d be getting in there pronto.

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2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

If I was the LBSA I’d be getting in there pronto.

Given that they are frequently more proactive than the club, I'm sure they are already seeing what can be done.

Your bit is bringing along as many of your fellow AFCW fans as possible. That's how this thing is meant to work, apparently.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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There a couple more relevant posts from A Pastel Revolution

Page 134 Ian Lenagan says

Quote

David said to me "I'm an Oil Trader and successful at that, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths"

On page 159 David Hughes says

Quote

I owned the club for several years on my own and it was too big a burden for one bloke"

So as with any business you delegate responsibility, in this case you appoint a commercial manager, in this case Mr James Milner the owner of APX sports, Chosen to provide the club's kit and merchandise apparently selected by Mr Hughes and Mr Loubster out of 8-9 applications for the merchadising slot. Mr Milner's tweets are protected, he used to berate Broncos fans on another forum. but has stopped recently

Certainly it's a strange situation where you are purchasing your merchandise that's been produced by a club employee. Monkey Business indeed

Talking about the economics of Rugby League, let's look at the Wimbledon Press Release

Quote

The deal would be worth between £200,000 and £500,000 per year -a wide variance largely depending on whether the London Broncos play in the Championship or the Super League. They are currently in the Championship but ambitiously seeking to return to the Super League. This figure will be made up from guaranteed ground rental fees as well asadditional commission on matchday income such as tickets and beverages.

As previously stated by Joe Palmer, this would make a significant differenceto the (AFC Wimbledon) Club’s finances and be used to support stadium loan repayments. This in turn would mean the Club could use operational budget elsewhere

https://thedonstrust.org/files/London-Broncos-Information-QA.pdf

So next year London Broncos get little to no Broadcast Income from any SKY deal.

They pay AFC Wimbledon a guaranteed minimum £ 200,000 per annum

They pay The Richmond Athletic Association and Rossyn Park an undisclosed rental sum.

If the average attendance at Plough Lane is an optimistic 900 (based on the 896 who attended during the successful 2018 season) . At £ 25 per throw (NO discounts - £ 22,500 per game x 11 totalling £ 247,500)

Of the £ 247,500 you are paying ticket commission to AFC Wimbledon

You are also paying commission to AFC Wimbledon on all food and drink sold and presumably the Broncos are paying stewarding costs

And your paying the Commercial Manager by buying Broncos merchandise.

And in the unlikely prospect London Broncos gain promotion to Super League the Broncos will pay the £80,000 Plough Lane stadium floodlight upgrade

So the question is - How on earth are London Broncos going to make money on this arrangement ?

If I was an AFC Wimbledon fan, it's a sweet deal and I would certainly be in favour

An interesting comparitor for this would be the move to Barnet, a ground with shiny seats. The club had to move after Mr Hughes pulled the plug at the end of the 2013 season

"Melferra", remember him, was on this and the other board extolling the virtues of Barnet FC and how much Barnet fans liked RL - Remind you of anyone ?

Barnet had everything you wanted apparently, Shiny seats, close to an Underground Station, lots of parking and close to Wembley. The great and the good loved it. Keyboards were pounded in approval

London Broncos cobbled together a team for 2013 and faced Marwan Koukash's expensively collected Salford. Even I thought they would get 2,000 for the opener. They got 1,246

In the last season at Twickenham Stoop the Broncos average - 2,200

In the first season at Barnet FC they averaged - 1,294 in Super league

The following and final season at Barnet the average attendance dropped to 645 as the club ended up seventh in the Championship the lowest placing since 1996. and a season in which David Hughes had promised a swift return to Super League.

This was despite the RFL donating a "Marketing budget" of circa £ 100,000 to Barnet FC. In a world cup year the sport could ill afford the pro club in London going belly up. Marketing involved a man with a trolley going up and down around Edgware station with some leaflets. 

With the clubs academy side still in West London at Feltham and London being bled to death by Barnet FC whose owner Anthony Kleanthous pointedly declined to attend the challenge cup final despite an RFL invite. The decision was made to bring the club back together at Ealing. Crowds had declined and the team had declined and "Melferra" dissappeared from messageboards

See Mr Hughes on the Ealing move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aam3_ld7dzQ.

I wonder what changed..

 

 

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When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so.

George Orwell
 

 

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9 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

There a couple more relevant posts from A Pastel Revolution

Page 134 Ian Lenagan says

On page 159 David Hughes says

So as with any business you delegate responsibility, in this case you appoint a commercial manager, in this case Mr James Milner the owner of APX sports, Chosen to provide the club's kit and merchandise apparently selected by Mr Hughes and Mr Loubster out of 8-9 applications for the merchadising slot. Mr Milner's tweets are protected, he used to berate Broncos fans on another forum. but has stopped recently

Certainly it's a strange situation where you are purchasing your merchandise that's been produced by a club employee. Monkey Business indeed

Talking about the economics of Rugby League, let's look at the Wimbledon Press Release

https://thedonstrust.org/files/London-Broncos-Information-QA.pdf

So next year London Broncos get little to no Broadcast Income from any SKY deal.

They pay AFC Wimbledon a guaranteed minimum £ 200,000 per annum

They pay The Richmond Athletic Association and Rossyn Park an undisclosed rental sum.

If the average attendance at Plough Lane is an optimistic 900 (based on the 896 who attended during the successful 2018 season) . At £ 25 per throw (NO discounts - £ 22,500 per game x 11 totalling £ 247,500)

Of the £ 247,500 you are paying ticket commission to AFC Wimbledon

You are also paying commission to AFC Wimbledon on all food and drink sold and presumably the Broncos are paying stewarding costs

And your paying the Commercial Manager by buying Broncos merchandise.

And in the unlikely prospect London Broncos gain promotion to Super League the Broncos will pay the £80,000 Plough Lane stadium floodlight upgrade

So the question is - How on earth are London Broncos going to make money on this arrangement ?

If I was an AFC Wimbledon fan, it's a sweet deal and I would certainly be in favour

An interesting comparitor for this would be the move to Barnet, a ground with shiny seats. The club had to move after Mr Hughes pulled the plug at the end of the 2013 season

"Melferra", remember him, was on this and the other board extolling the virtues of Barnet FC and how much Barnet fans liked RL - Remind you of anyone ?

Barnet had everything you wanted apparently, Shiny seats, close to an Underground Station, lots of parking and close to Wembley. The great and the good loved it. Keyboards were pounded in approval

London Broncos cobbled together a team for 2013 and faced Marwan Koukash's expensively collected Salford. Even I thought they would get 2,000 for the opener. They got 1,246

In the last season at Twickenham Stoop the Broncos average - 2,200

In the first season at Barnet FC they averaged - 1,294 in Super league

The following and final season at Barnet the average attendance dropped to 645 as the club ended up seventh in the Championship the lowest placing since 1996. and a season in which David Hughes had promised a swift return to Super League.

This was despite the RFL donating a "Marketing budget" of circa £ 100,000 to Barnet FC. In a world cup year the sport could ill afford the pro club in London going belly up. Marketing involved a man with a trolley going up and down around Edgware station with some leaflets. 

With the clubs academy side still in West London at Feltham and London being bled to death by Barnet FC whose owner Anthony Kleanthous pointedly declined to attend the challenge cup final despite an RFL invite. The decision was made to bring the club back together at Ealing. Crowds had declined and the team had declined and "Melferra" dissappeared from messageboards

See Mr Hughes on the Ealing move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aam3_ld7dzQ.

I wonder what changed..

 

 

Following them is a bit like waiting for the last rights. I know it’s not great but writing it down makes it worse. A new adventure begins at a new location and it probably means going through everything once again. Another chance to rebuild the team and the community network before .... who knows. 

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Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

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55 minutes ago, Southern Reiver said:

Following them is a bit like waiting for the last rights. I know it’s not great but writing it down makes it worse. A new adventure begins at a new location and it probably means going through everything once again. Another chance to rebuild the team and the community network before .... who knows. 

This is economics of the mad house, but with an owner who pumps in millions without any long term plan it is no surprise, it is only money after all. I count that Wimbledon will be the eighteenth home ground within the M25 in 40 years. Nomadism defined. I for one am done with this. One Year Zero too many and given the prices and the paucity of the squad it may be the Broncos are drinking at the last gasp saloon. Sad but how many makeovers can one believe in? 

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28 minutes ago, Quinskolar said:

This is economics of the mad house, but with an owner who pumps in millions without any long term plan it is no surprise, it is only money after all. I count that Wimbledon will be the eighteenth home ground within the M25 in 40 years. Nomadism defined. I for one am done with this. One Year Zero too many and given the prices and the paucity of the squad it may be the Broncos are drinking at the last gasp saloon. Sad but how many makeovers can one believe in? 

Why not give the Skolars a try, at least they stay put in one place.

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The identity of some of the long the fans walking away should be ringing serious alarm bells at the Broncos.

In his e-mail to season ticket holders James Milner made it clear renewals were vital given the dramatic drop in central funding. A lot of long standing fans have now posted their goodbyes, though some say they may attend the odd match.

Despite this there has been no attempt to contact non renewing season ticket holders and find out why they are off or any serious attempt to retain them as supporters. Madness.

Edited by Ivarr the Boneless
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8 hours ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

Despite this there has been no attempt to contact non renewing season ticket holders and find out why they are off or any serious attempt to retain them as supporters. Madness.

Madness. But not remotely surprising.

If you're able to go beyond hinting, I'd love to know more about what made you think (still think?) that the Broncos were about to start taking fan engagement seriously.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Why not give the Skolars a try, at least they stay put in one place.

If your team went bust tomorrow which team based an hour further away would you support instead?

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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10 hours ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

In his e-mail to season ticket holders James Milner made it clear renewals were vital given the dramatic drop in central funding. 

...

Despite this there has been no attempt to contact non renewing season ticket holders and find out why they are off or any serious attempt to retain them as supporters. Madness.

Indeed. 

It's also the case that you still can't buy a membership via the Broncos website. Or even know that they exist.

I had been thinking that this was the usual ineptitude but I am now beginning to think that this is an unmanaged decline (collapse), of which onfield performances are also a part. To me, it seems as if the club is being dumped on the AFCW doorstep with a brown envelope containing Hughes's final contribution.

If we announce the signings of Ray Nasso and Liam Foran, I will know this for sure.

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7 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Indeed. 

It's also the case that you still can't buy a membership via the Broncos website. Or even know that they exist.

I had been thinking that this was the usual ineptitude but I am now beginning to think that this is an unmanaged decline (collapse), of which onfield performances are also a part. To me, it seems as if the club is being dumped on the AFCW doorstep with a brown envelope containing Hughes's final contribution.

If we announce the signings of Ray Nasso and Liam Foran, I will know this for sure.

I still think we're at the incompetence not conspiracy stage.

It's what happens when everything seems to be driven towards selling tracksuits.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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11 hours ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

The identity of some of the long the fans walking away should be ringing serious alarm bells at the Broncos.

I class myself in this bracket.

 

Been watching since Crusaders days, had ST, sponsored players, bought far too much merchandise, lived and breathed the London project, took the age group players I coach to games, even saw a few go into scholarship / academy. But no more. 

Until Milner or Hughes outline their 5 year plan for the club, they are having no more of my hard earned, I'll pop along to one or two home games, maybe an away game, watch the better games on Our League but that's it.

And before you start MoK, whilst the move to Plough Lane has been the catalyst, if the move was backed up with some rationale and, as I say, a realistic 5 year plan then it would be more palatable.

As for calling up elapsed ST holders - that would be priceless, telling Milner what I think !

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Madness. But not remotely surprising.

If you're able to go beyond hinting, I'd love to know more about what made you think (still think?) that the Broncos were about to start taking fan engagement seriously.

I am aware of conversations between someone at Broncos and someone with a track record in this area.

The reason I used words like think is I wasn't present and don't know exactly what was discussed. Suffice to say if growing the fan base / fan engagement wasn't discussed, it's a massive missed opportunity.

My optimism is declining given what we are seeing delivered sadly. The optimist in me says maybe we'll see a push once we know the date of the first match at Plough Lane. The pessimist says the recent evidence suggests the existing fans are still of little concern to the club. I hope I'm wrong.

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Looking at this wearing my Southern RL fan hat, I see Plough Lane as an opportunity for Broncos to build back to the level of crowds we know are possible in London (but impossible at Ealing).

It won’t happen overnight but I believe it’s absolutely possible over the course of the 10-year agreement. AFC Wimbledon is a different kettle of fish from Barnet. 

I could go on at length about this but ultimately it’s down to AFCW having a highly engaged, responsible fanbase that is invested in the club in all senses of the word. I fully expect the Dons Trust to take an active role in the groundshare rather than just bank LB’s rent cheques. 

What disappoints me is a few of the hardcore on here seem to only want to see the downsides of the groundshare. Almost as if they are willing it - and Broncos - to fail, so they can say ‘I told you so’. It’s all a bit pathetic. 

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2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

What disappoints me is a few of the hardcore on here seem to only want to see the downsides of the groundshare. Almost as if they are willing it - and Broncos - to fail, so they can say ‘I told you so’. It’s all a bit pathetic. 

aka Realists; been there and got the Broncos umpteenth salvation ground move T shirt. Rich comments coming from a bloke who has little if any interest in the Broncos, and as such has limited knowledge / experience in their modus operandae for the last few decades. 

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1 minute ago, Magic XIII said:

aka Realists; been there and got the Broncos umpteenth salvation ground move T shirt. Rich comments coming from a bloke who has little if any interest in the Broncos, and as such has limited knowledge / experience in their modus operandae for the last few decades. 

From my POV it looks like some Broncos fans seem to enjoy death-riding their own club. It's not a good look.

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35 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

From my POV it looks like some Broncos fans seem to enjoy death-riding their own club. It's not a good look.

Yeah we all know what your point of view is.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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I still believe 99% of Broncos fans are desperate for this move to work, if it doesn't will there be a club left?

The club is at a critical point. Central funding has been slashed this season. New income streams are required. I think we all get that. We don't all agree on how it should be done 

It seems to be largely the long standing fans leaving. We have been through numerous ground changes, this is my sixth, MagicXIII and Quinskolar will have seen more.

We have had the same promises about how it will be transformative before. The Quins link up was basically try before you buy. Been here before. The clubs infrastructure is not right and is unlikely to make this move a success. It's getting too painful to watch. If Dons grab them by the scruff of the neck, it may work. If not, all the evidence points to the usual lack of promotion and marketing. We all know how that ends, we've seen it before.

Do you really think people who have invested up to 40 years in the club - if Quinskolar is who I think he has been there from season one - really want the club to die?

 

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48 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

What disappoints me ...

TBH, I don't think any Broncos fan gives a tuppenny flick what disappoints you.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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