Cup final tickets

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's not for everyone, but my personal preference is around variety - I find it a bit boring going to the same cities, drinking in the same pubs, sitting in the same places each year - but I understand why people like it. 

I've made the point many times before, my favourite RL memories are in Barcelona, Cardiff, Edinburgh, London etc. the more times we can visit these the better for me.

I like that too but for me that is for events other than the Challenge Cup final. What you describe, for me anyway, is where other events like Magic, internationals and one off games like the Wigan and Warrington games in Barcelona come in. I agree with your favourite RL memories, my greatest RL memory was my 3 days in Barcelona watching Wigan v Catalans and I would book tomorrow if it was announced again, but that doesn't mean I would take the CC final there.  

Again I think we have to be careful not to continually fleece the same fans for the same events and again. The novelty of different locations wears off, Magic has barely grown, although some love it. Moving events around as the answer falls into the same lazy gimmicky strategy to me as cheap tickets and discounts because the RFL cant build and create an event.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

I like that too but for me that is for events other than the Challenge Cup final. What you describe, for me anyway, is where other events like Magic, internationals and one off games like the Wigan and Warrington games in Barcelona come in. I agree with your favourite RL memories, my greatest RL memory was my 3 days in Barcelona watching Wigan v Catalans and I would book tomorrow if it was announced again but that doesn't mean I would take the CC final there.  

Again I think we have to be careful not to continually fleece the same fans for the same events and again. The novelty of different locations wears off, Magic has barely grown, although some love it. Moving events around as the answer falls into the same lazy gimmicky strategy to me as cheap tickets and discounts because the RFL cant build and create an event.

I'm not sure I agree with the last para - surely moving to new cities allows us to target fans from those cities and opens the event to new audiences? Whilst we have been notoriously bad at in in the past, that shouldn't be a blocker to future initiatives.

Many of the biggest sports in the world move to different places each year - and Wembley isn't exactly killing it at the moment.

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I like that too but for me that is for events other than the Challenge Cup final. What you describe, for me anyway, is where other events like Magic, internationals and one off games like the Wigan and Warrington games in Barcelona come in. I agree with your favourite RL memories, my greatest RL memory was my 3 days in Barcelona watching Wigan v Catalans and I would book tomorrow if it was announced again, but that doesn't mean I would take the CC final there.  

Again I think we have to be careful not to continually fleece the same fans for the same events and again. The novelty of different locations wears off, Magic has barely grown, although some love it. Moving events around as the answer falls into the same lazy gimmicky strategy to me as cheap tickets and discounts because the RFL cant build and create an event.

If the CC is to thrive at Wembley we need to be able to get 50k neutrals to attend regardless of the finalists. That is it - end of!!

If they aren't coming from the north then they must come from the midlands and the South. To do that you have to offer something special that is:

• Exciting and unique (e.g. half time NFL-style show with a big name performer) - this takes huge £££s!
• When the schools are still there (and sell the hell out of it to the surrounding 50 miles) - this takes huge £££s and effort!
• Keep it at a set time of the Year - this takes leadership!
• Invest around the stadium as an experience - this takes £££s and effort

I really don't see any appetite for this in the game (and haven't for a long time).

If getting a few thousand York and Fev fans to stump up £50 to watch a curtain raiser is the best when have got then we are up sht creek without a paddle.

 

[Leyther_Matt]

31 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

This essentially alludes to what seems to have become my catchphrase on these kind of threads, I'd rather see a full, smaller ground than a two thirds full, bigger ground even if the attendance is also bigger. A full ground has a much better atmosphere than one with a load of empty seats and full grounds just seems to legitimise a sport, makes people take it more seriously. A potential new fan watching a half full Wembley won't be anywhere near as impressed as watching a full, raucous crowd in Newcastle.

I'd much rather have 52,000 at St James' Park than 60,000 at Wembley or say, 65,000 at Murrayfield than 70,000 at Wembley. Plus I know a guy who literally lives just round the corner from Murrayfield so I would have somewhere to stay!

Or, as evidenced with how good the <45k looked at England-Germany, is it a case of spreading those numbers around the ground better rather than the age-old 'TV arc' argument?

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure I agree with the last para - surely moving to new cities allows us to target fans from those cities and opens the event to new audiences? Whilst we have been notoriously bad at in in the past, that shouldn't be a blocker to future initiatives.

Many of the biggest sports in the world move to different places each year - and Wembley isn't exactly killing it at the moment.

Do the RFL do that? If so they have 10 million to go at in London. They are failing to build an event and engage there so I don't see why they magically will elsewhere. Experience of events in places like Liverpool shows that. On the doorstep of the RL heartlands and the city was blissfully unaware of anything happening there for both matches I've been to.

On any trips to Wembley I have not seen any signs of wider engagement with the local population and anecdotal evidence tells me that they aren't even tapping into the ex pat northerner audience. This is quite different to my experience in say the 90s when I did used to see quite a lot of advertisements and things like the pre-match build up were far better. It felt like a big event. Moving to a different place and doing the same just doesn't cut it for me.

As I said I completely understand your argument and accept your points. I just think it goes far deeper than that.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

Do the RFL do that? If so they have 10 million to go at in London. They are failing to build an event and engage there so I don't see why they magically will elsewhere. Experience of events in places like Liverpool shows that. On the doorstep of the RL heartlands and the city was blissfully unaware of anything happening there for both matches I've been to.

On any trips to Wembley I have not seen any signs of wider engagement with the local population and anecdotal evidence tells me that they aren't even tapping into the ex pat northerner audience. This is quite different to my experience in say the 90s when I did used to see quite a lot of advertisements and things like the pre-match build up were far better. It felt like a big event. Moving to a different place and doing the same just doesn't cut it for me.

As I said I completely understand your argument and accept your points. I just think it goes far deeper than that.

All fair points, but I think one of the benefits is you can tout your event out to partners who want to support your marketing efforts. It does rather feel like London is a huge city who do not care about 65k Northerners coming down for the weekend. We are a drop in the ocean. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

8 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Or, as evidenced with how good the <45k looked at England-Germany, is it a case of spreading those numbers around the ground better rather than the age-old 'TV arc' argument?

I must say I would prefer fans were spread out rather than crammed into particular sections, as you say it looked fantastic for the Germany game, certainly looked like there was more than 45k in there. I've always just presumed it costs more to open the full stadium and that's one of the reasons we don't, as well as the tv arc as you mentioned, of course I don't know if that is how Wembley do things. This is why we don't open the south stand for away fans anymore at the Circle/KC/KCOM/MKM and just jam them in the end of the east stand, cos it cost more to open more stands, at least I believe that is the reason they gave at the time.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

If the CC is to thrive at Wembley we need to be able to get 50k neutrals to attend regardless of the finalists. That is it - end of!!

If they aren't coming from the north then they must come from the midlands and the South. To do that you have to offer something special that is:

• Exciting and unique (e.g. half time NFL-style show with a big name performer) - this takes huge £££s!
• When the schools are still there (and sell the hell out of it to the surrounding 50 miles) - this takes huge £££s and effort!
• Keep it at a set time of the Year - this takes leadership!
• Invest around the stadium as an experience - this takes £££s and effort

I really don't see any appetite for this in the game (and haven't for a long time).

If getting a few thousand York and Fev fans to stump up £50 to watch a curtain raiser is the best when have got then we are up sht creek without a paddle.

 

Yes I agree and that is why I think the issue goes much deeper than just moving the final around as a solution. The game faces huge issues which I wont delve into here and needs a much a wider strategy to engage at all levels. Internationals and finals should be the introduction for the new fans and the big event enticement to get them hooked. I think we spectacularly fail to do this and have failed to capitalise on anything good that has happened since the 2013 World Cup. Regular internationals and finals in London should stimulate sales in each other to the same neutral and Southern audience and we need to make these people regular attendees of RL events in the capital.

The Grand Final is probably as close as we have to achieving an event feel but even that is beginning to look very old hat and cliched with various issues raised the last few years. Its like the organisers got some praise and have just persisted in doing the same thing ever since. The old northern night out for 40 somethings theme isn't really that appealing to neutrals. It was good initially as a one off but its not really for youngsters or the average neutral year after year. Neither is absolutely bladdered fans and crowd trouble when we are talking about a family friendly game and taking kids along. I even know some adults who no longer attend due to that.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

All fair points, but I think one of the benefits is you can tout your event out to partners who want to support your marketing efforts. It does rather feel like London is a huge city who do not care about 65k Northerners coming down for the weekend. We are a drop in the ocean. 

If London is a dead market - then is there any need to worry about it?

[Dave T]

44 minutes ago, Leonard said:

If London is a dead market - then is there any need to worry about it?

That isn't what my post is saying. We care more about London than they care about us. I don't think they are that bothered whether we are there, I expect councils and tourist boards in other cities are more likely to woo us for the value we bring. 

We should play in London to increase our footprint there.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Leonard said:

If London is a dead market - then is there any need to worry about it?

Hasn't worked - and that is as a Broncos goer. I can always get friends to go to the final - but there is clearly no real interest in a pro side and without a benefactor, the RFL doesn't have the money to change that.

Come and see a game - and then wait 12 months for the next final unless you want to see Broncos and Skolars - both of whom you have no idea exist.

I also wonder if it is an uphill struggle with demographic changes in London. 

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That isn't what my post is saying. We care more about London than they care about us. I don't think they are that bothered whether we are there, I expect councils and tourist boards in other cities are more likely to woo us for the value we bring. 

We should play in London to increase our footprint there.

When the "Challenge Cup final at Wembley" was a thing, how many genuinely big games were there at Wembley in any sport.

This was a time when England football internationals at Wembley were not a big deal and would often struggle to reach 20,000 in attendance. The only real big games there were the FA Cup Final, the League Cup Final and the Challenge Cup final.

That's now not the case. Wembley as a special occasion is simply not true any more.

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

When the "Challenge Cup final at Wembley" was a thing, how many genuinely big games were there at Wembley in any sport.

This was a time when England football internationals at Wembley were not a big deal and would often struggle to reach 20,000 in attendance. The only real big games there were the FA Cup Final, the League Cup Final and the Challenge Cup final.

That's now not the case. Wembley as a special occasion is simply not true any more.

You missed out Evil Knievel - biggest fail until Nathan Graham in 1996.

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You missed out Evil Knievel - biggest fail until Nathan Graham in 1996.

JUST LOOK AT ALL THE EMPTY SEATS

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

JUST LOOK AT ALL THE EMPTY SEATS

No one knew they could pay on the day! Groupon didn't exist in the 1970s.

[JF1]

The problem isn't Wembley...It's the Challenge Cup.

I would suggest if we moved the Grand Final to Wembley,whilst not selling out,it would attract more interest and ticket sales than the CC.

If we look at football..There is nowhere near the interest in the FA Cup that there used to be.I understand  they even struggle to sell Wembley out notwithstanding their much bigger fan base. BBC and BT Sport flog the early rounds for all they are worth,but there really isn't that much engagement,I would suggest. There is only any real interest at the semi-final stage.

I go to the CC final every year because I enjoy the weekend away.Maybe,it doesn't cut it for many people today,especially as it's holiday on the beach time.

 

[Guest]

So Danny Ward gone.

If Broncos are to fold or to turn into a posh Skolars at the end of the Champ or in League One - that shows the southern RL experiment is largely dead at the professional level.

So unless there is an argument that London has a specific ability to sell more than other venues in order to cover the high costs of staging the event - then might well be time to move on.

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, JF1 said:

The problem isn't Wembley...It's the Challenge Cup.

I would suggest if we moved the Grand Final to Wembley,whilst not selling out,it would attract more interest and ticket sales than the CC.

If we look at football..There is nowhere near the interest in the FA Cup that there used to be.I understand  they even struggle to sell Wembley out notwithstanding their much bigger fan base. BBC and BT Sport flog the early rounds for all they are worth,but there really isn't that much engagement,I would suggest. There is only any real interest at the semi-final stage.

I go to the CC final every year because I enjoy the weekend away.Maybe,it doesn't cut it for many people today,especially as it's holiday on the beach time.

 

We need to be careful with overselling the demise of a comp that still gets over 60k for the final in London and is the most watched RL game in the country most years across TV and paying attendees. 

The Grand Final has had crowds lower than many Challenge Cup Finals. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

59 minutes ago, JF1 said:

The problem isn't Wembley...It's the Challenge Cup.

I would suggest if we moved the Grand Final to Wembley,whilst not selling out,it would attract more interest and ticket sales than the CC.

If we look at football..There is nowhere near the interest in the FA Cup that there used to be.I understand  they even struggle to sell Wembley out notwithstanding their much bigger fan base. BBC and BT Sport flog the early rounds for all they are worth,but there really isn't that much engagement,I would suggest. There is only any real interest at the semi-final stage.

I go to the CC final every year because I enjoy the weekend away.Maybe,it doesn't cut it for many people today,especially as it's holiday on the beach time.

 

Totally agree however it would need a 2 week lead in.

 

P 

[yipyee]

8 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Saracens make an annual loss of about £4m every year. Nothing they do makes a profit or breaks even.

Nobody should be taking any kind of financial advice from them.

I was using the pricing as an example of how many five pound tickets it would take to break even at wembley but as usual someone on here quotes out of context to have a pop at another sport

[yipyee]

8 hours ago, Damien said:

So why have them at a fiver? I simply don't believe that any family is that price sensitive that they are put off going to Wembley for £2.50 difference. Its not even the cost of a sandwich on the way. I personally believe half price concessions are very reasonable and this year gave the opportunity for people to purchase at £7.50.

The cost is 25 pound so when i went to school its a 20 pound difference 

If you buy sandwiches for 20 pound you are insane

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, yipyee said:

The cost is 25 pound so when i went to school its a 20 pound difference 

If you buy sandwiches for 20 pound you are insane

You could buy them for £7.50, there are links on this thread. As Dave says they were available for £3.75. Its funny how in the post about this you moan about quoting out of context then do the same.

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

You could buy them for £7.50, there are links on this thread. As Dave says they were available for £3.75. Its funny how in the post about this you moan about quoting out of context then do the same.

3.75? Dont think so, the 7.50 was before the finalists were announced.

£25 now which is shocking

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, yipyee said:

3.75? Dont think so, the 7.50 was before the finalists were announced.

£25 now which is shocking

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/57418/tickets-on-sale-for--challenge-cup-final-day

£5 tickets with 25% discount = £3.75 as confirmed in this RFL press release. 

[yipyee]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/57418/tickets-on-sale-for--challenge-cup-final-day

£5 tickets with 25% discount = £3.75 as confirmed in this RFL press release. 

Bit on the cheap side them