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This reads as though he isn't leaving for another job. I hope this doesn't mean that we are having to trim back in the lead to next year. Surely this extra year should be used for more and more commercial activity? 

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18 hours ago, Dave T said:

This reads as though he isn't leaving for another job. I hope this doesn't mean that we are having to trim back in the lead to next year. Surely this extra year should be used for more and more commercial activity? 

Where does it say we are trimming back?

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18 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Where does it say we are trimming back?

The Commercial Director is announcing he is leaving 12m prior to the tournament and doesn't have a new job as he is offering his services. 

He states himself his role was to deliver the commercial programme - that hasn't happened yet, as the tournament is 12m away. 

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I know I am just winding myself up again but with all the commercial revenue targets being surpassed and all the sponsors on board and all the Super League and Premier League grounds back open again.... wouldn't it have been great to actually play the tournament?

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I know I am just winding myself up again but with all the commercial revenue targets being surpassed and all the sponsors on board and all the Super League and Premier League grounds back open again.... wouldn't it have been great to actually play the tournament?

Aye, I think we have to let that one go mate 😆

But the commercial side is really positive, nobody will convince me that your Commercial Director leaving with 12m to go is a positive. Hopefully it is maybe a sign that he has moved onto something bigger and better, but his tweets touting for work don't suggest that. 

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Aye, I think we have to let that one go mate 😆

Never!

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But the commercial side is really positive, nobody will convince me that your Commercial Director leaving with 12m to go is a positive. Hopefully it is maybe a sign that he has moved onto something bigger and better, but his tweets touting for work don't suggest that. 

I am not too worried. An event like the World Cup is not like a normal employment contract as it has a natural end point.  All the staff may well have been on fixed term contacts.   As you say, the commercial side is healthy so they may have decided to mutually not to extend this contract while all the operational ones were critical to delivery.

Pushing everything back 12 months will have had huge implications all round and employment contracts will have been one.

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Never!

I am not too worried. An event like the World Cup is not like a normal employment contract as it has a natural end point.  All the staff may well have been on fixed term contacts.   As you say, the commercial side is healthy so they may have decided to mutually not to extend this contract while all the operational ones were critical to delivery.

Pushing everything back 12 months will have had huge implications all round and employment contracts will have been one.

But this is exactly the point here. During the whole 'just move it back a year' BS from the Aussies it was pointed out that you can't just do that. Here is the first public example of that at play - surely the tournament won't run without a Commercial Director for the next 12m, so we have either cut it, or lost a good person. Neither is good. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But this is exactly the point here. During the whole 'just move it back a year' BS from the Aussies it was pointed out that you can't just do that. Here is the first public example of that at play - surely the tournament won't run without a Commercial Director for the next 12m, so we have either cut it, or lost a good person. Neither is good. 

Or we have hit all the commercial targets and the commercial partners have all agreed to the 12 month deferment.  It doesn't have to be bad news.

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And all we are doing is speculating really. It may be a setback, it may not, but that will be kept behind closed doors anyway.  Nothing in this World Cup from the organisation team causes me to worry.

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I think this is in the nothing to see category. Targets have been met and job done and maybe there just isn't that much outstanding for this particular person to do. After all the tournament was meant to be this year and most of the commercial work has probably been done with that in mind.  There are probably others that are left that can take up any slack.

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26 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

And all we are doing is speculating really. It may be a setback, it may not, but that will be kept behind closed doors anyway.  Nothing in this World Cup from the organisation team causes me to worry.

 

13 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think this is in the nothing to see category. Targets have been met and job done and maybe there just isn't that much outstanding for this particular person to do. After all the tournament was meant to be this year and most of the commercial work has probably been done with that in mind.  There are probably others that are left that can take up any slack.

I hope you guys are right, but I'd be surprised if all of our assets are sold for this, we still have a low number of traditional sponsorships for this tournament. 

The plan was for him to be employed until the tournament, so a change has been enforced by the delay. 

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I seem to recall John Dutton saying all the sponsors had agreed to roll over into 2022. There comes a point where additional sponsors can dilute the commercial benefits to businesses as the more there are the less publicity each gets. If the idea is to build lasting relationships with these businesses then you don't want to do that. Similar if the commercial agreement itself is company x will be the only green widget sponsor etc. Not saying that they would turn attractive new sponsors down of course, but I suspect the vast bulk of the work is now done. This RLWC has been run brilliantly, I just cannot see the organsers having taken their eye off the ball here.

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2 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

I seem to recall John Dutton saying all the sponsors had agreed to roll over into 2022. There comes a point where additional sponsors can dilute the commercial benefits to businesses as the more there are the less publicity each gets. If the idea is to build lasting relationships with these businesses then you don't want to do that. Similar if the commercial agreement itself is company x will be the only green widget sponsor etc. Not saying that they would turn attractive new sponsors down of course, but I suspect the vast bulk of the work is now done. This RLWC has been run brilliantly, I just cannot see the organsers having taken their eye off the ball here.

You do still need a decently led commercial team to both steward the existing agreements *and* develop them, if possible, beyond '2021'.

I *think* there's nothing to see here but it does still seem a bit weird.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

You do still need a decently led commercial team to both steward the existing agreements *and* develop them, if possible, beyond '2021'.

I *think* there's nothing to see here but it does still seem a bit weird.

Rugby League traditionally underperforms in this area. Commercially this tournament appears to be doing really well, but even then there are a limited number of corporate sponsors - I don't think income-generating roles should be being cut in the lead up to the tournament. I'd expect us to be trying to cover as many additional costs as possible through more and more partnerships. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Rugby League traditionally underperforms in this area. Commercially this tournament appears to be doing really well, but even then there are a limited number of corporate sponsors - I don't think income-generating roles should be being cut in the lead up to the tournament. I'd expect us to be trying to cover as many additional costs as possible through more and more partnerships. 

I do agree.

I suspect, on reflection, that whilst deals etc have been rolled until 2022, there is no actual additional money to cover the twelve months additional staff costs now required.

Edited by gingerjon
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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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6 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

I seem to recall John Dutton saying all the sponsors had agreed to roll over into 2022. There comes a point where additional sponsors can dilute the commercial benefits to businesses as the more there are the less publicity each gets. If the idea is to build lasting relationships with these businesses then you don't want to do that. Similar if the commercial agreement itself is company x will be the only green widget sponsor etc. Not saying that they would turn attractive new sponsors down of course, but I suspect the vast bulk of the work is now done. This RLWC has been run brilliantly, I just cannot see the organsers having taken their eye off the ball here.

I don't think there will be an eye taken off the ball. I think there will be forced cost cutting due to the delay. 

How many real sponsors do we have - as in those you'd expect to be on the pitch/ Boards etc rather than 'partners' - that's not playing down the importance of those, but we have a lot of scope for company names to be attached to the tournament. 

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

I hope you guys are right, but I'd be surprised if all of our assets are sold for this, we still have a low number of traditional sponsorships for this tournament. 

The plan was for him to be employed until the tournament, so a change has been enforced by the delay. 

Yeah maybe I'm wrong and I know if it was the equivalent at the RFL rather than the World Cup organisers I would undoubtedly feel different and much more pessimistic. The organisers though have done such a good job and exceeded every target so I'm happy to be optimistic on this and give them the benefit of the doubt.

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I do agree.

I suspect, on reflection, that whilst deals etc have been rolled until 2022, there is no actual additional money to cover the twelve months additional staff costs now required.

Yep, this was the point of the thread. It was never part of our plan to sever ties with our Commercial Director 12m before the tournament. This has been enforced because of the delay. 

Whether this is a really limited impact we will see. But its obvious delay would have an impact - this is perhaps the first sign of that. 

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2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yeah maybe I'm wrong and I know if it was the equivalent at the RFL rather than the World Cup organisers I would undoubtedly feel different and much more pessimistic. The organisers though have done such a good job and exceeded every target so I'm happy to be optimistic on this and give them the benefit of the doubt.

It's certainly not any criticism of the RLWC team, ultimately they will have to do what they have to do - but it is a potential sign of things to come as we have to delay for 12m.

I do also think as the guy is looking for new opportunities, there is a rather glaring opportunity here! 

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21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's certainly not any criticism of the RLWC team, ultimately they will have to do what they have to do - but it is a potential sign of things to come as we have to delay for 12m.

I do also think as the guy is looking for new opportunities, there is a rather glaring opportunity here! 

I certainly think this is it. He has some pretty impressive headline figures for his CV and its not really going to benefit him staying around another 12 months.

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If all targets have already been met, I would have expected a reduction rather than a cessation in his activity, at a maintenance level as it were, until say late spring when the build up to the 2022 competition begins.  In any case, I'd have thought that more, not less, commercial activity was a good thing, at least to fill in any funding gaps. Look at Lenagan's  recent comments about some contracted Wigan sponsors not paying up. Could happen in the case of the RWC?

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9 hours ago, JohnM said:

If all targets have already been met, I would have expected a reduction rather than a cessation in his activity, at a maintenance level as it were, until say late spring when the build up to the 2022 competition begins.  In any case, I'd have thought that more, not less, commercial activity was a good thing, at least to fill in any funding gaps. Look at Lenagan's  recent comments about some contracted Wigan sponsors not paying up. Could happen in the case of the RWC?

would agree and also whilst having sponsors kept on board you do need to develop the sponsorships plus drive the digital rights... assuming digital rights arena is or will be exploited.  For sure still need a commercial leader and team to maximise upon the existing and any new area's not exploited.

Edited by redjonn
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Various posts removed for being either insulting, off topic, or both.

Please don't drag disputes from other threads into this one (or any other for that matter) and please don't hurl insults at each other.

Any stuff like this you see, anywhere on this forum, just report it and don't get involved.

Thanks.

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.

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