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Salford to move to Moor Lane?


The Daddy
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It is effectively Moor Lane or nothing.

 

The good news:

  • due diligence suggests it is a feasible solution
  • The club are meeting with architects/builders imminently to discuss the possibility of expanding the capacity to 6.5k/8k (we can build up, just not out) 
  • We would have full commercial control over the stadium in terms of corporate hospitality & executive boxes (yes, they exist), sponsorship (good news considering our commercial revenue has doubled since February) and food & beverage

 

Obstacles remaining:

  • Cost of expanding the stadium (all depends what quotes we are given)
  • Training base & HQ 
  • Car parking (park & ride logistics already thought through and other local parking solutions are being discussed with the relevant parties)
Edited by Ray Cashmere
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On 01/11/2021 at 23:07, Grand Est said:

As recently as 2013, the MEN was reporting that Salford were moving to THIS place.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/salford-stadium-gets-green-light-884852.amp

 

Fast forward a few short years, and they have left the Willows. Rented a krappy box stadium that looks nothing like this, been effectively booted out by a union club who were not even involved originally, and are now moving their Super League operation into a non-league soccer ground.

If they keep regressing at the same rate, they'll be part time in a couple of seasons.

Tragic mismanagement, of the type that only Rugby League seems consistently capable.

C_71_article_1197756_image_list_image_list_item_0_image.webp

Salford are not getting booted out by the Union club, Salford are moving out as they can’t afford to pay the rent 

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8 minutes ago, Ray Cashmere said:

It is effectively Moor Lane or nothing.

 

The good news:

  • due diligence suggests it is a feasible solution
  • The club are meeting with architects/builders imminently to discuss the possibility of expanding the capacity to 6.5k/8k (we can build up, just not out) 
  • We would have full commercial control over the stadium in terms of corporate hospitality & executive boxes (yes, the exist), sponsorship (good news considering our commercial revenue has doubled since February) and food & beverage

 

Obstacles remaining:

  • Cost of expanding the stadium (all depends what quotes we are given)
  • Training base & HQ 
  • Car parking (park & ride logistics already thought through and other local parking solutions are being discussed with the relevant parties)

But would they own the ground?

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7 minutes ago, Ray Cashmere said:

Effectively yes as it would be a long term leasehold (as Salford City have now) between 21 and 100 years with full control over the stadium's commerciality.

So "no" then.

There's no "effectively" about it.

A lease is not ownership.

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8 minutes ago, dboy said:

So "no" then.

There's no "effectively" about it.

A lease is not ownership.

We’ll ok but there’s obviously different levels/terms of lease.

If we have full commercial control and (presumably) some level of agreement on how the lease is set - eg the council can’t up it 100% each year then this would be a much better deal than we currently have at the AJ Bell(End)

Edited by theswanmcr
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13 minutes ago, dboy said:

So "no" then.

There's no "effectively" about it.

A lease is not ownership.

I have no idea what wider point you're trying to make here but the differences between long-term leasehold and freehold are immaterial in this context. 

 

What matters is who has effective control over the assets of the property. That would be Salford. 

 

 

Edited by Ray Cashmere
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On 02/11/2021 at 12:58, Ray Cashmere said:

... Money talks at the end of the day ...

 

Well it does when Salford decided to default on the £1.5 million pound loan from the council - taxpayers money that could/should have been used to help the most disadvantaged  in the Salford community 😢

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29 minutes ago, Ray Cashmere said:

It is effectively Moor Lane or nothing.

 

The good news:

  • due diligence suggests it is a feasible solution
  • The club are meeting with architects/builders imminently to discuss the possibility of expanding the capacity to 6.5k/8k (we can build up, just not out) 
  • We would have full commercial control over the stadium in terms of corporate hospitality & executive boxes (yes, the exist), sponsorship (good news considering our commercial revenue has doubled since February) and food & beverage

 

Obstacles remaining:

  • Cost of expanding the stadium (all depends what quotes we are given)
  • Training base & HQ 
  • Car parking (park & ride logistics already thought through and other local parking solutions are being discussed with the relevant parties)

This would be massive and much better than the no income box.  Just need to get a team playing out of MRA to give Salford a proper rival and some positivity can be back for RL in Manchester Region

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If Swinton dont move in with Salford I question what the point of that club is. 

3g the pitch,  Salford and Swinton under one roof and have it become a proper rugby league hub. 

It may not feel like it but this can be a positive for Salford and means they can be viable without SL funding. 

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29 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

But would they own the ground?

Why is that so important to you?

“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”
 Friedrich Nietzsche

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18 minutes ago, Ray Cashmere said:

I have no idea what wider point you're trying to make here but the differences between long-term leasehold and freehold are immaterial in this context. 

 

What matters is who has effective control over the assets of the property. That would be Salford. 

 

 

Have you guys looked into linking up with Salford Uní to establish another pathway and grow the brand.  

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13 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Have you guys looked into linking up with Salford Uní to establish another pathway and grow the brand.  

Our university partnerships and player pathway scheme were discussed in depth tonight:

  • We have an existing partnership with Salford University and are also working with UoM and Manchester Met 
  • 3 players who have graduated from our partnership with Wales Rugby League and will be playing in our reserves this upcoming season are to begin scholarships with UCLAN managed around their rugby. Our new reserves coach works at UCLAN and is developing this relationship further.
  • We now have 3 player pathway partnership: Wales RL, Ipswich Jets & Ghana RL. The latter is longer-term but the aim is to bring players from all 3 into our player pathway and provide opportunities for them to study with Eccles College/UCLAN/Salford Uni and develop into potential Super League players. 
  • We now have 84 partner schools in GM, the vast majority having not played rugby league before 
  • We are working on pathways for ethnic minorities similar to the RFL's Tackle It Academy
  • We have just launched the REDS programme for 14-17 year olds identified as having potential to come and train with the club with the potential of entering our pathway.

 

I get it's fashionable to clobber Salford for holding the sport back (understandably so given our recent history) but the present and future look very encouraging so long as the stadium issue is resolved.

Edited by Ray Cashmere
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22 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If Swinton dont move in with Salford I question what the point of that club is. 

3g the pitch,  Salford and Swinton under one roof and have it become a proper rugby league hub. 

It may not feel like it but this can be a positive for Salford and means they can be viable without SL funding. 

You do realise that 3G pitches are only suitable for hockey.

Multisport pitches are now 5G but even those aren’t great for playing RL on.

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13 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

You do realise that 3G pitches are only suitable for hockey.

Multisport pitches are now 5G but even those aren’t great for playing RL on.

Pretty sure there's only 3G, everything after that is just marketing speak for the same thing.

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I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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1 hour ago, Ray Cashmere said:

Our university partnerships and player pathway scheme were discussed in depth tonight:

  • We have an existing partnership with Salford University and are also working with UoM and Manchester Met 
  • 3 players who have graduated from our partnership with Wales Rugby League and will be playing in our reserves this upcoming season are to begin scholarships with UCLAN managed around their rugby. Our new reserves coach works at UCLAN and is developing this relationship further.
  • We now have 3 player pathway partnership: Wales RL, Ipswich Jets & Ghana RL. The latter is longer-term but the aim is to bring players from all 3 into our player pathway and provide opportunities for them to study with Eccles College/UCLAN/Salford Uni and develop into potential Super League players. 
  • We now have 84 partner schools in GM, the vast majority having not played rugby league before 
  • We are working on pathways for ethnic minorities similar to the RFL's Tackle It Academy
  • We have just launched the REDS programme for 14-17 year olds identified as having potential to come and train with the club with the potential of entering our pathway.

 

I get it's fashionable to clobber Salford for holding the sport back (understandably so given our recent history) but the present and future look very encouraging so long as the stadium issue is resolved.

A lot of positives there.  Being one of few clubs who could copy newcastle (who have turned Northumbria into a new successful entry point but potential pathway) would be a big boost for Salford. 

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10 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

Our university partnerships and player pathway scheme were discussed in depth tonight:

  • We have an existing partnership with Salford University and are also working with UoM and Manchester Met 
  • 3 players who have graduated from our partnership with Wales Rugby League and will be playing in our reserves this upcoming season are to begin scholarships with UCLAN managed around their rugby. Our new reserves coach works at UCLAN and is developing this relationship further.
  • We now have 3 player pathway partnership: Wales RL, Ipswich Jets & Ghana RL. The latter is longer-term but the aim is to bring players from all 3 into our player pathway and provide opportunities for them to study with Eccles College/UCLAN/Salford Uni and develop into potential Super League players. 
  • We now have 84 partner schools in GM, the vast majority having not played rugby league before 
  • We are working on pathways for ethnic minorities similar to the RFL's Tackle It Academy
  • We have just launched the REDS programme for 14-17 year olds identified as having potential to come and train with the club with the potential of entering our pathway.

 

I get it's fashionable to clobber Salford for holding the sport back (understandably so given our recent history) but the present and future look very encouraging so long as the stadium issue is resolved.

Posts like this should be trotted out when the forum comes round to its monthly cycle of questioning the value of existing teams like Salford. 

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11 hours ago, JohnM said:

Why is that so important to you?

Ownership isn't important in itself.

Being able to exploit the full commercial opportunities of the stadium is however. And that generally comes with ownership or long leasehold (as many of the financially struggling Super League clubs who rent their stadia and have little control will confirm.)

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11 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

I have no idea what wider point you're trying to make here but the differences between long-term leasehold and freehold are immaterial in this context. 

 

What matters is who has effective control over the assets of the property. That would be Salford. 

 

 

The point, explicit - not wide, is that you were asked directly "would Salford own the ground?"

You said yes, when the answer is no.

Just a matter of honesty, truthfulness and accuracy

If the lease is as little as 21 years, you wouldn't waste money painting the walls, never mind doing floodlights, stands and corporate upgrades.

 

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29 minutes ago, M j M said:

Ownership isn't important in itself.

Being able to exploit the full commercial opportunities of the stadium is however. And that generally comes with ownership or long leasehold (as many of the financially struggling Super League clubs who rent their stadia and have little control will confirm.)

Look at Hull, Huddersfeild, Wigan

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To be fair to Ray he quite deliberately said "full commercial control" in his original post.  When he says "effectively, yes" on the issue of legal ownership, he's not trying to suggest that leasehold = legal ownership of the title.  We all know, however, that leasehold ownership is akin to full ownership if you can treat the asset as yours, and that's all he's saying.  The length of the lease will be important (21 years is different to 100, for example), as will whether Salford as leaseholder is free to develop the seating capacity or make any other changes to enhance the stadium.

I just want to wish good luck to Ray, he comes across as pragmatic and on top of the issues.

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