Jump to content

The Pyramid.


Recommended Posts

Across the various recent posts I see talk of re-structure, loss of central revenue and consequent club failure or regression to amateur status. Soggy fairly nihilistic stuff.

Let me tell you that Tier 4 ( the top non pro level )  remains in a reasonable state.  But as for a Pyramid ? We were supposed to feature  both up and down on a ladder that the RFL has never implemented, but never mind. It's clearly a busted flush at present.

We now get absolutely no financial support from the RFL. Our clubs have to be self sufficient because within the game there is no one willing or able to help.

Just let that sink in. We totally  are on our own financially.

Lip service to the fact that the Community game underpins the whole of the  pro game all the way to SL  is just that. Blah Blah Blah as some kid on tv just said. Fingers crossed the  foundations of our game can survive without anyone paying for the concrete that needs to be poured - because they can't or won't..

Which leads me to those foundations.

On Sat 16th oct the NCL have their Finals at Featherstone ( a club  that whatever else understands what we are as a  community game ). Starting at at 11.45 we have Kells v West Hull followed by the big one Wath Brow v Thatto Heath and then St Helens based Clock Face  Miners v East Leeds. Yes the best of all 3 counties on offer.

To my many keyboard friends I ask that you take a rain check and get there if you can. You'll see 6 clubs with probably almost 2000 playing members between them having a go. It will be serious fun .  And will refresh the '  half empty glass '  guys amongst you . Even produce some happier posts ?

 For the rest of you we are trying to get Our League to cover some if not all of it.

And as for that Pyramid  -  if someone would pay for that concrete  to be poured where it needs to be they would get a more solid structure and an incredible  ultimate return - all the way to the top.

  • Like 10
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


If it wasn't for that base there would not even be a pyramid.

Those clubs ( and a lot more) that you have mentioned are the bed rock.

Now burger off.  You are not needed, not wanted and are just  an embarrassment  with your history, you quietly get on with getting on with supplying talent.. But do you actually bring in any actual cash we can spend TODAY?

If not, how do you think you are any use to Super league?

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Ron Banks

Bears and Barrow

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, del capo said:

Across the various recent posts I see talk of re-structure, loss of central revenue and consequent club failure or regression to amateur status. Soggy fairly nihilistic stuff.

Let me tell you that Tier 4 ( the top non pro level )  remains in a reasonable state.  But as for a Pyramid ? We were supposed to feature  both up and down on a ladder that the RFL has never implemented, but never mind. It's clearly a busted flush at present.

We now get absolutely no financial support from the RFL. Our clubs have to be self sufficient because within the game there is no one willing or able to help.

Just let that sink in. We totally  are on our own financially.

Lip service to the fact that the Community game underpins the whole of the  pro game all the way to SL  is just that. Blah Blah Blah as some kid on tv just said. Fingers crossed the  foundations of our game can survive without anyone paying for the concrete that needs to be poured - because they can't or won't..

Which leads me to those foundations.

On Sat 16th oct the NCL have their Finals at Featherstone ( a club  that whatever else understands what we are as a  community game ). Starting at at 11.45 we have Kells v West Hull followed by the big one Wath Brow v Thatto Heath and then St Helens based Clock Face  Miners v East Leeds. Yes the best of all 3 counties on offer.

To my many keyboard friends I ask that you take a rain check and get there if you can. You'll see 6 clubs with probably almost 2000 playing members between them having a go. It will be serious fun .  And will refresh the '  half empty glass '  guys amongst you . Even produce some happier posts ?

 For the rest of you we are trying to get Our League to cover some if not all of it.

And as for that Pyramid  -  if someone would pay for that concrete  to be poured where it needs to be they would get a more solid structure and an incredible  ultimate return - all the way to the top.

I sense the meaning in your metaphor, but what does the concrete you want to pour consist of.

Please be more specific as to the kind of assistance you want.

Money (I suppose), but how much and how would you spend it? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why the talk is of cutting funding to the 2nd and 3rd division is being discussed.

Cut to the bare bones, the game needs the pro level to be for profile and revenue generation, and the community game for mass player participation. Anything else is, in that logic, somewhat frivolous or self-indulgent against the financial reality. Nice additions, but not essential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, del capo said:

Across the various recent posts I see talk of re-structure, loss of central revenue and consequent club failure or regression to amateur status. Soggy fairly nihilistic stuff.

Let me tell you that Tier 4 ( the top non pro level )  remains in a reasonable state.  But as for a Pyramid ? We were supposed to feature  both up and down on a ladder that the RFL has never implemented, but never mind. It's clearly a busted flush at present.

We now get absolutely no financial support from the RFL. Our clubs have to be self sufficient because within the game there is no one willing or able to help.

Just let that sink in. We totally  are on our own financially.

Lip service to the fact that the Community game underpins the whole of the  pro game all the way to SL  is just that. Blah Blah Blah as some kid on tv just said. Fingers crossed the  foundations of our game can survive without anyone paying for the concrete that needs to be poured - because they can't or won't..

Which leads me to those foundations.

On Sat 16th oct the NCL have their Finals at Featherstone ( a club  that whatever else understands what we are as a  community game ). Starting at at 11.45 we have Kells v West Hull followed by the big one Wath Brow v Thatto Heath and then St Helens based Clock Face  Miners v East Leeds. Yes the best of all 3 counties on offer.

To my many keyboard friends I ask that you take a rain check and get there if you can. You'll see 6 clubs with probably almost 2000 playing members between them having a go. It will be serious fun .  And will refresh the '  half empty glass '  guys amongst you . Even produce some happier posts ?

 For the rest of you we are trying to get Our League to cover some if not all of it.

And as for that Pyramid  -  if someone would pay for that concrete  to be poured where it needs to be they would get a more solid structure and an incredible  ultimate return - all the way to the top.

Wath Brow have filled 4 coaches already,should be a cracking day of RL.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I searched in vain on the RFL website for anything about this event...

Compare and contrast amateur rugby league's lack of central funding to the comparatively generous financial support the RFU gives its grassroots clubs. Without that support (which pays for a lot of the travelling), the rugby union pyramid in England wouldn't exist, certainly not in its present structure.

Edited by Hopping Mad
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Putting the chippy stuff to one side, that sounds like a cracking day's rugby.

  • Like 1

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

This is why the talk is of cutting funding to the 2nd and 3rd division is being discussed.

Cut to the bare bones, the game needs the pro level to be for profile and revenue generation, and the community game for mass player participation. Anything else is, in that logic, somewhat frivolous or self-indulgent against the financial reality. Nice additions, but not essential.

Do you really believe that Tommy? Honest answer please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

This is why the talk is of cutting funding to the 2nd and 3rd division is being discussed.

Cut to the bare bones, the game needs the pro level to be for profile and revenue generation, and the community game for mass player participation. Anything else is, in that logic, somewhat frivolous or self-indulgent against the financial reality. Nice additions, but not essential.

Being discussed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't think its a good thing, but it is the logic.

I have mentioned this before Tommy, but I'd say if funds are withheld from the Championship and League 1 clubs and subsequently some of those clubs suffer the ultimate disgrace of closing the doors I believe that will impact on the locallity and in turn the community game, the focal point of being a RL town will have vanished.

I will bring this up whilst in discussion, if SL do decide to cut those divisions from funding the next obvious step (to me anyway) would be to reintroduce licencing, if that does occur and there is no pathway to promotion, just watch how support will fall away at some clubs.

Personally having gone all through the last licensing period following a team that won the Championship division on a couple of occasions or being in contention for what should be named the "Dead End Street" trophy I will state quite catagorically that I will not be repeating the process, just winning the division is not the reward that will entice me back or I deem acceptable, and there will be a lot like me. Also I believe those ambitious Owners/Chairmen may just walk away, take away the target and the shot becomes pointless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

I searched in vain on the RFL website for anything about this event...

Compare and contrast amateur rugby league's lack of central funding to the comparatively generous financial support the RFU gives its grassroots clubs. Without that support (which pays for a lot of the travelling), the rugby union pyramid in England wouldn't exist, certainly not in its present structure.

er, about this funding 'which pays for a lot of the travelling'?

asking for several hundred clubs...

For info, level three now only gets 'a contribution towards travel costs' as the sum total of its central funding. And IIRC that's forfeited if you pay over the cap on salary, which everyone does...

at level 4 at least one club has already said this season that it will be picking and choosing its away matches based on whether they can afford to travel to them, and then at level 4 and below there's an almighty row going on in various regional leagues about the cost of travelling to Guernsey and the Isle of Man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

er, about this funding 'which pays for a lot of the travelling'?

asking for several hundred clubs...

For info, level three now only gets 'a contribution towards travel costs' as the sum total of its central funding. And IIRC that's forfeited if you pay over the cap on salary, which everyone does...

at level 4 at least one club has already said this season that it will be picking and choosing its away matches based on whether they can afford to travel to them, and then at level 4 and below there's an almighty row going on in various regional leagues about the cost of travelling to Guernsey and the Isle of Man.

A reflection of the RFU's financial position?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hopping Mad said:

A reflection of the RFU's financial position?

not really (without going cross code), it's been silly for over a decade now probably. Plenty of grants if you're at level 9 for clubhouses, etc, pretty good at level 2 until this season, everyone in between can shift for themselves. I wouldn't suggest anyone look at the RFU pyramid for lessons of what can be done to be honest - - level 3 on no central funding to speak of covers Plymouth up to Darlington for 16 clubs - as I said, RFU level 3 funding is a 'travel contribution' which AIUI doesn't come close to what has been proposed RFL L1's funding is cut *to*. 

Level 4 is split north south, which sounds better, until I had a quick look at the table just now and realised that while N2 South doesn't go north of Leicester, it's also true to say it doesn't go east of Canterbury, West of Redruth, or south of Guernsey...

I think there's just more money, or at least more idiots prepared to spend their money, on a hell of a lot of travelling at low levels of the pyramid on that side of the fence.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, del capo said:

Rest assured my friends that ALL posts on these pages on ALL subjects are read  by the powers that be.......just as it should be.

And action often taken thereafter.

Keep your fingers working .. !

Oh yeah? Well if that's the case, why don't you answer my questions? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 04/10/2021 at 00:46, del capo said:

 

We now get absolutely no financial support from the RFL. Our clubs have to be self sufficient because within the game there is no one willing or able to help.

 

 

Didn't all the NCL clubs get £1000 from the RFL last year and can now apply for funding from the £1 million survival fund. What financial support has the NCL given to their clubs from their large amount sitting in the bank? Even BARLA gave money to clubs last season. 

That is a very poor statement. the rfl have a dedicated person to help with grant applications which all the money gained goes to the clubs, I heard one Wigan club have had over £100000 in grant money over the last couple of years.  

Edited by Impartial Observer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Impartial Observer said:

 

Didn't all the NCL clubs get £1000 from the RFL last year and can now apply for funding from the £1 million survival fund. What financial support has the NCL given to their clubs from their large amount sitting in the bank? Even BARLA gave money to clubs last season. 

That is a very poor statement. the rfl have a dedicated person to help with grant applications which all the money gained goes to the clubs, I heard one Wigan club have had over £100000 in grant money over the last couple of years.  

I always  try to choose my words carefully Impartial 

NOW means just that. And yes no amateur clubs get money from the RFL. Instead through our members we will henceforth  be paying approx 400k p a initially to help  pay the wages of the Community team and run the show

The RFL do a great job in sourcing other peoples money for us and Russell does a brilliant job on a club by club basis. That represents the biggest selling point in favour of the new membership fees  , alongside maintaining the existing services.

The point I was seeking to emphasise is the continuing reliance by the pro  game on handouts whilst the amateurs have to be totally self reliant.

Irish has asked about my type of concrete mix.

Money is everything. It makes the world go round. That's the cement and you don't need masses  of it according to a  builder friend of mine. It's the Aggregates that count. The better the Aggregates the stronger the concrete.

We have 300 + community clubs. We should start by targeting them all to  assess  and  then secure their sustainability  .

My Aggregates would start with facilities fit for this century. Clubhouses and enough decent surfaces to play on. We are it seems  well on the way here - 9 out of the 10 Wigan clubs  for instance now have the use of up to date clubhouse facilities.

Next would be playing membership.

Every club should be pushed / shoved / whatever into moving towards  fielding 20 or so teams each throughout all ages and both sexes. Schools should be re engaged urgently and linked to local outlets ( the PE pupil payments specifically encourage this ) . Solutions have to be found to the teenage drop out problems even if some of the answers won't suit some in the pro game. We need to get far more of the 800,000 kids introduced to RL by Sky Try into our club formats. And the pro clubs who have  previously benefitted from that investment MUST  themselves replace it now it has gone.

This is a much tougher proposition but if we could  say double our numbers  then we would ipso facto double  our top level as well - who wouldn't have two Sam Tomkins rather than just one ?

And my final Aggregate is the most important one of all - the volunteer workforce. You will not get any of the above without  an army of willing helpers. If all clubs had more of them we would be in so much stronger a place. Increasing those has to be the number One target. That's where our development / liaison officers should  for me be most active ( if we ever get  the money to get them back ! ).

Most League 1 clubs could do worse than follow the structures the community game has adopted. And most of them sit in areas where they would not be upsetting  existing  outlets for our game.

It's the only Sustainable way . If you have a large playing membership with bar and function facilities social membership will follow and the club income created will allow you to pay your first team if you so choose.  That's how for instance Preston Grasshoppers RU manage to pay a couple of St Pats players during the winter season ( along with the rest of their first team squad )

The growth will then surely follow.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...