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Academy funding cuts


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6 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Yet people jump up and down with joy as Toulouse come in and suck out even more cash from the game. Those who point it out are branded Luddites, I call them people who can read a balance sheet.

RL is dying at every level yet posters on here and those who run the game still cocoon themselves in the ridiculous fantasy first perused when SKY wee splashing cash in the nineties.

people need to grow up and face the truth. Within ten years we will be importing the dregs of the Aussie game to what’s left of SL because we have too, there simply won’t be enough British players available.

Frankly I think it’s already to late to save the game.

Doesn’t the game over here already import the dregs from the NRL. It’s nothing new clubs have always wasted good money on duff overseas players. 

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Are you saying players don't get bonuses/incentives in their contracts? Seems unlikely.

Its pretty hard with the salary cap as it means paying well below it to make any incentive worthwhile. Bonus payments from any prize money, which don't count on the cap, are allowed though. That obviously depends on winning something though.

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I was talking to a bloke who was heavily involved with Leigh’s failed academy bid, Leigh had secured £400k pa for 3 years from new sponsors who wanted to be associated with youth sport - none will be sponsoring any RL youth sport this coming season. It is far easier to get large sponsors for ladies, wheelchair, youth etc than SL etc

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5 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Are you saying players don't get bonuses/incentives in their contracts? Seems unlikely.

No but the difference between contract payment and losing pay would be massive, and it would not be on a match to match basis you could always tell when the Chairman sent the message into the dressing room at half "win this and it will be rewarded"

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5 hours ago, Josef K said:

Doesn’t the game over here already import the dregs from the NRL. It’s nothing new clubs have always wasted good money on duff overseas players. 

Obviously your understanding of the sport spans a century.

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11 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

No club signs all their graduating academy players every year. Maybe 1 or 2.

Where do the rest go?

If you don't sign them,  you can't prevent them from going anywhere they want for free, how can you expect any reimbursement?

You wouldnt need reimbursing as the best players produced is payment enough, unless the academy is centralised and any future club would need to pay a devwlopment fee.

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1 hour ago, yipyee said:

You wouldn't need reimbursing as the best players produced is payment enough, unless the academy is centralised and any future club would need to pay a development fee.

We all need some transparency on these alleged cuts and who they might affect

To be honest we need transparency full stop in RL. 

I hope this is not true. The last thing the sport needs is a disemboweled system of producing new talent.

It is poor enough that the system is based on power and control by a few elite clubs through the rigged Academy system and it's multiple of Salary Cap dispensations. (The latest I hear is that any club trained player playing elsewhere equates to a Salary Cap dispensation of £5k. )

But if cuts come in, then it will merely compound the inequalities and offers little chance we can produce a crop of NRL level players without them playing down under. 

It makes even more sense for SL clubs to co-operate, enhance and unify skills, share and reduce costs and run Regional Academies.

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53 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

We all need some transparency on these alleged cuts and who they might affect

To be honest we need transparency full stop in RL. 

I hope this is not true. The last thing the sport needs is a disemboweled system of producing new talent.

It is poor enough that the system is based on power and control by a few elite clubs through the rigged Academy system and it's multiple of Salary Cap dispensations. (The latest I hear is that any club trained player playing elsewhere equates to a Salary Cap dispensation of £5k. )

But if cuts come in, then it will merely compound the inequalities and offers little chance we can produce a crop of NRL level players without them playing down under. 

It makes even more sense for SL clubs to co-operate, enhance and unify skills, share and reduce costs and run Regional Academies.

With reginal academys though you loose a lot of what we have. You could of course have a proper licence system for clubs with the bottom of SL having first choice of new talent.

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4 hours ago, yipyee said:

You wouldnt need reimbursing as the best players produced is payment enough, unless the academy is centralised and any future club would need to pay a devwlopment fee.

There are significant problems with your assumption. 

Deciding who are the best SL prospects at age 19 is pretty much impossible, especially forwards. 

You can't restrict who a player plays for without a contract. (Restraint of trade) or force another club to pay compensation. 

The vast majority of academy players don't go on to play for their parent club. Some still play in SL, but most end up in the championship, league 1 or the community game.

The allowances on the salary cap allow the parent club to offer a slightly higher contract offer.

I would also support a regional system based on targeted geography (development) and the number of age-limit teams in an area (supply). Each community club would be linked to and supported by a regional academy.  

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11 hours ago, yipyee said:

With reginal academys though you loose a lot of what we have. You could of course have a proper licence system for clubs with the bottom of SL having first choice of new talent.

We already have the license system (albeit a very bad one) you are now advocating a draft pick system, at what age do you propose this selection process to become live considering kids are being aligned with pro clubs at 13 years old? and will your draft also be on an open geographical basis that clubs can shop anywhere they please or would you suggest on a regional basis if so could you imagine the 'log flume' and fighting between Wiggin, Sints and Wire for the available talent.

Plus I would not leave it to the bottom SL clubs, have you forgot that Newcastle, Bradford and London have been granted licences, and also it was a complete travesty that Leigh was refused.

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15 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

There are significant problems with your assumption. 

Deciding who are the best SL prospects at age 19 is pretty much impossible, especially forwards. 

You can't restrict who a player plays for without a contract. (Restraint of trade) or force another club to pay compensation. 

The vast majority of academy players don't go on to play for their parent club. Some still play in SL, but most end up in the championship, league 1 or the community game.

The allowances on the salary cap allow the parent club to offer a slightly higher contract offer.

I would also support a regional system based on targeted geography (development) and the number of age-limit teams in an area (supply). Each community club would be linked to and supported by a regional academy.  

I'd love to see the numbers, because I suspect that a significant percentage simply stop playing.

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21 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

There are significant problems with your assumption. 

Deciding who are the best SL prospects at age 19 is pretty much impossible, especially forwards. 

You can't restrict who a player plays for without a contract. (Restraint of trade) or force another club to pay compensation. 

The vast majority of academy players don't go on to play for their parent club. Some still play in SL, but most end up in the championship, league 1 or the community game.

The allowances on the salary cap allow the parent club to offer a slightly higher contract offer.

I would also support a regional system based on targeted geography (development) and the number of age-limit teams in an area (supply). Each community club would be linked to and supported by a regional academy.  

My idea is your last paragraph

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13 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

We already have the license system (albeit a very bad one) you are now advocating a draft pick system, at what age do you propose this selection process to become live considering kids are being aligned with pro clubs at 13 years old? and will your draft also be on an open geographical basis that clubs can shop anywhere they please or would you suggest on a regional basis if so could you imagine the 'log flume' and fighting between Wiggin, Sints and Wire for the available talent.

Plus I would not leave it to the bottom SL clubs, have you forgot that Newcastle, Bradford and London have been granted licences, and also it was a complete travesty that Leigh was refused.

If there were reginal academies then a player would go to the academy where they are registered to play amateur level.

Upon senior year a draft takes place similar to the nfl.

A fee is paid to the academy, the academy pays the amateur club.

A player would sign a contract with the RFL and therefore centrally contracted until drafted, a player cannot refuse a draft as this would be breach of contract and a fee reimbursed to the academy

Clubs can buy or trade players for draft picks with other clubs.

Imagine the bottom placed team drafting welsby or newman etc..

 

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8 hours ago, yipyee said:

If there were reginal academies then a player would go to the academy where they are registered to play amateur level.

Upon senior year a draft takes place similar to the nfl.

A fee is paid to the academy, the academy pays the amateur club.

A player would sign a contract with the RFL and therefore centrally contracted until drafted, a player cannot refuse a draft as this would be breach of contract and a fee reimbursed to the academy

Clubs can buy or trade players for draft picks with other clubs.

Imagine the bottom placed team drafting welsby or newman etc..

 

How does that tie in with your post I replied to :-

"With reginal academys though you loose a lot of what we have. You could of course have a proper licence system for clubs with the bottom of SL having first choice of new talent"

You reckon that this system you describe would get the green light from some of our SL Chairmen, Leneghan, McManus, Hetherington etc, not a snowball in hells chance.

 

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How does that tie in with your post I replied to :-

"With reginal academys though you loose a lot of what we have. You could of course have a proper licence system for clubs with the bottom of SL having first choice of new talent"

You reckon that this system you describe would get the green light from some of our SL Chairmen, Leneghan, McManus, Hetherington etc, not a snowball in hells chance.

 

We had regional academies,the RFL pulled the plug on them to save money.

Those Superleague chairmen you mentioned would be right to object,they are the ones who invest time,money & resources into player development.

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59 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How does that tie in with your post I replied to :-

"With reginal academys though you loose a lot of what we have. You could of course have a proper licence system for clubs with the bottom of SL having first choice of new talent"

You reckon that this system you describe would get the green light from some of our SL Chairmen, Leneghan, McManus, Hetherington etc, not a snowball in hells chance.

 

Its the same thing, you are taking academys away from the clubs to a regionlised model, would the current to chairmen accept it... no but clubs could opt out of an academy system to just pay for talent out of regional academys, cumbria for example would have an academy and those kids from cumbria would have to go through that academy etc...

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1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

We had regional academies,the RFL pulled the plug on them to save money.

Those Superleague chairmen you mentioned would be right to object,they are the ones who invest time,money & resources into player development.

Yet refused others the right to do so as it would potentially reduce the pool for them to pick from

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14 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Yet refused others the right to do so as it would potentially reduce the pool for them to pick from

Pretty sure it was the RFL that ruled on that,maybe if your visionary ruler had invested in player development several years ago you’d have a functioning academy now to draw on instead of signing 34 yr olds.

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19 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Pretty sure it was the RFL that ruled on that,maybe if your visionary ruler had invested in player development several years ago you’d have a functioning academy now to draw on instead of signing 34 yr olds.

Maybe if you had a bit of common you would eventually realise a few things 1. Parents of the best kids will direct said kids to the best academy showing interest 2. Said kids will be looking for a FT pathway into RL as a career 3. Said kids would be looking to compete against the best

Now if you ever grasp that then there is hope in the world

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4 hours ago, Davo5 said:

We had regional academies,the RFL pulled the plug on them to save money.

Those Superleague chairmen you mentioned would be right to object,they are the ones who invest time,money & resources into player development.

Easy when you know all the best kids select your club, not chance for others to break the cycle.

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