Catalans sign.....

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Agreed.  I do not fully understand that fine details but just keeping his mouth shut and moving on wouldve been a start.

You might be better pleased with their next signing though, Taukeiaho, from the Roosters.  This is the forward I mention in the OP.  Good player.

That’s a quality signing,he’s been one of the Roosters best & most consistent  forwards for a few years.now.

[WN83]

I think that’s 13 none French players likely to be in Catalans first 17 now. 
 

I love the fact we have a strong Catalans but if that’s achieved by filling it with overseas players, I’m not sure what the game as a whole gets from it. 

[Saint Toppy]

54 minutes ago, WN83 said:

I think that’s 13 none French players likely to be in Catalans first 17 now. 
 

I love the fact we have a strong Catalans but if that’s achieved by filling it with overseas players, I’m not sure what the game as a whole gets from it. 

Oooh you can't go round posting things like that on here, you'll get pilloried for being anti-french, anti-catalans, anti-expansionist, flat capped luddite  

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, WN83 said:

I think that’s 13 none French players likely to be in Catalans first 17 now. 
 

I love the fact we have a strong Catalans but if that’s achieved by filling it with overseas players, I’m not sure what the game as a whole gets from it. 

I don’t think that view will be held by Catalans and the maths is a bit out.  

Bousquet, Mourge, Da Costa, Yaha, Garcia, Goudemand will all feature regularly.   Laguerre, Chan, Cozza and Desaria will be hard on their heels too.  Strength in depth with Jullien,  Seguier (If he stays) and maybe Rouge if he shapes himself so plenty of French opportunity.  They know they’ve got young players in their youth teams coming through and their system is working.  

Just throwing kids in and finishing mid to bottom of the table isn’t really an option imo.  Continuing to be in the top 3 keeps their profile high in the Region, brings more fans, sponsorship and maybe more TV interest so the game, in France, benefits plenty.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, WN83 said:

I think that’s 13 none French players likely to be in Catalans first 17 now. 
 

I love the fact we have a strong Catalans but if that’s achieved by filling it with overseas players, I’m not sure what the game as a whole gets from it. 

More French players than if there were no Catalans that's for sure.

Also it is another team spending big money, up to the cap and probably beyond with marquee players, with good crowds. SL certainly needs big, strong clubs like that.

[WN83]

9 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I don’t think that view will be held by Catalans and the maths is a bit out.  

Bousquet, Mourge, Da Costa, Yaha, Garcia, Goudemand will all feature regularly.   Laguerre, Chan, Cozza and Desaria will be hard on their heels too.  Strength in depth with Jullien,  Seguier (If he stays) and maybe Rouge if he shapes himself so plenty of French opportunity.  They know they’ve got young players in their youth teams coming through and their system is working.  

Just throwing kids in and finishing mid to bottom of the table isn’t really an option imo.  Continuing to be in the top 3 keeps their profile high in the Region, brings more fans, sponsorship and maybe more TV interest so the game, in France, benefits plenty.

If everyone is fit Tomkins, Davies, Langi, Whare, Pearce, Drinkwater, Dudson, McIlorum, Whitley, McMeekan, Kasiano, Napa and May are likely to get a place in the first choice 17. 
 

I make that 13 and whilst I’m not saying they should be down at 6 or 7, like most other teams are, that’s too many IMO.

 

I’m pro Catalans, pro France and pro expansion but what is the end goal the sport is trying to achieve by having them in? Maybe I’m wrong but in my mind, it’s always been to get a more competitive French National side and I don’t think we’re much further on in that regard then we were 15 years ago. 

[WN83]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

More French players than if there were no Catalans that's for sure.

Also it is another team spending big money, up to the cap and probably beyond with marquee players, with good crowds. SL certainly needs big, strong clubs like that.

Agree with your second point. I am more than happy to see teams spending big and building goods sides. The fact I can’t see how they can be under the cap really doesn’t bother me in the slightest, as I’d be more than happy to do away with it.

 

On your first point, well yeah I guess so but it’s hardly a defence they could keep trotting out for ever. They’ve had 15 years as a professional club and in that time it feels like they’ve hardly progressed at all when it comes to producing their own players and having the confidence to rely on them. 
 

I’d love to see them take the next step and win the GF in 2022 but I’d be a damn site happier if they did it with 8 or 9 French players in their team and not 4. 

[WN83]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Oooh you can't go round posting things like that on here, you'll get pilloried for being anti-french, anti-catalans, anti-expansionist, flat capped luddite  

I’m pro all those (bar flat caps) and it’s why I’m concerned they’re likely to have only four French players in their first choice side. 
 

If I look at this May signing, why did they need him? I believe he’s a utility player who could cover 6, 13 or pretty much any position in between. Maybe I’m answering my question with that description but Morgue can cover the halves, they have French lads who can play centre (Leguerre impressed me last season), lads who can cover the loose forward role and so on. 
 

It just takes opportunities away from those lads and that can’t be good. I look at Morgue and when does he get a starting shirt? The lad looks quality but Pearce and Drinkwater are tied up and Tomkins sounds like he’ll retire over there. If you can’t put faith in that lad, I’m not sure who they’ll put it in. 

[Lowdesert]

14 hours ago, WN83 said:

If everyone is fit Tomkins, Davies, Langi, Whare, Pearce, Drinkwater, Dudson, McIlorum, Whitley, McMeekan, Kasiano, Napa and May are likely to get a place in the first choice 17. 
 

I make that 13 and whilst I’m not saying they should be down at 6 or 7, like most other teams are, that’s too many IMO.

 

I’m pro Catalans, pro France and pro expansion but what is the end goal the sport is trying to achieve by having them in? Maybe I’m wrong but in my mind, it’s always been to get a more competitive French National side and I don’t think we’re much further on in that regard then we were 15 years ago. 

I think Goudemand, Desaria and Da Costa will contest their positions more regularly than 2021 and May will probably be on the bench too but either way, it’s semantics in that those choices haven’t been made yet. 

The old chestnut of what Catalans bring is never compared to what any other SL club brings though, despite being in operation over 100 years. Lazy sound byte brought about by some SL owners and fans expecting large numbers of Catalans fans to travel to every UK game and fill Wembley to the gunnels. 

 I’ll agree that the French National Team, overall, has dropped away in recent years, but there is a resurgence in potential international players now.  

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

 I’ll agree that the French National Team, overall, has dropped away in recent years, but there is a resurgence in potential international players now.  

Based on what ? the number of french players playing reserve grade for Catalans because their first team is largely made up of Brits & Antipodeans.

[WN83]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

I think Goudemand, Desaria and Da Costa will contest their positions more regularly than 2021 and May will probably be on the bench too but either way, it’s semantics in that those choices haven’t been made yet. 

The old chestnut of what Catalans bring is never compared to what any other SL club brings though, despite being in operation over 100 years. Lazy sound byte brought about by some SL owners and fans expecting large numbers of Catalans fans to travel to every UK game and fill Wembley to the gunnels. 

 I’ll agree that the French National Team, overall, has dropped away in recent years, but there is a resurgence in potential international players now.  

I fully agree that plenty of sides bring less than Catalans on a solely superleague basis. I love going over there, I was at the first ever game and have been at plenty in between. I love many many aspects of what they bring to the table but we always need to have an eye on the balance of them having a great side, against how they’re benefiting the French National side and therefore the game in the Northern Hemisphere. 
 

We’ll never get tens of thousands coming over for finals or hundreds travelling for league games and that’s absolutely fine but then how can we get some of that lost final income back? In my mind, that is via regular England Vs France internationals but we want them to be competitive if we want people to attend.

Personally I’d be looking at putting a plan in place to reduce that 13 they currently have down to 10 over the next 5 years or so. Those extra 3 slots for French players could be massive and I don’t see why it should massively hurt them. If a quota like that is possible, I’m not too sure. 

 

 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Based on what ? the number of french players playing reserve grade for Catalans because their first team is largely made up of Brits & Antipodeans.

Based on the number of French players coming into the Catalans first team squad.  Laguerre, Mourgue and Desaria are future internationals as is Justin Sangare from TO.

Are you saying these aren’t future internationals?

 

[Lowdesert]

44 minutes ago, WN83 said:

I fully agree that plenty of sides bring less than Catalans on a solely superleague basis. I love going over there, I was at the first ever game and have been at plenty in between. I love many many aspects of what they bring to the table but we always need to have an eye on the balance of them having a great side, against how they’re benefiting the French National side and therefore the game in the Northern Hemisphere. 
 

We’ll never get tens of thousands coming over for finals or hundreds travelling for league games and that’s absolutely fine but then how can we get some of that lost final income back? In my mind, that is via regular England Vs France internationals but we want them to be competitive if we want people to attend.

Personally I’d be looking at putting a plan in place to reduce that 13 they currently have down to 10 over the next 5 years or so. Those extra 3 slots for French players could be massive and I don’t see why it should massively hurt them. If a quota like that is possible, I’m not too sure. 

 

 

I think everyone is in agreement regarding internationals.

Could be a better idea all round to reduce the import number altogether and provide incentives to include clubs for home grown.  We can’t just impose that on Catalans in isolation though.  

[Eddie]

20 hours ago, WN83 said:

I think that’s 13 none French players likely to be in Catalans first 17 now. 
 

I love the fact we have a strong Catalans but if that’s achieved by filling it with overseas players, I’m not sure what the game as a whole gets from it. 

Someone to challenge the boring Saints/Wigan/Leeds triopoly. 

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, WN83 said:

We’ll never get tens of thousands coming over for finals or hundreds travelling for league games and that’s absolutely fine but then how can we get some of that lost final income back?

FFS, the two highest rating games on Sky this year, and by a country mile, involved the Catalans. 

When it comes to negotiations over broadcast rights that is the sort of thing that will add another couple of million to the deal and the clubs will benefit from greater central funding. Certainly not ######-farting around wondering how many away fans they bring.

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Based on the number of French players coming into the Catalans first team squad.  Laguerre, Mourgue and Desaria are future internationals as is Justin Sangare from TO.

Are you saying these aren’t future internationals?

 

I'm saying if they spend almost the entire season playing reserve grade or only getting the occasional bench spot and limited time on the pitch then its a complete waste of time them playing for France because they'll just never be able to compete against players who are playing week in week out at the top level.

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Could be a better idea all round to reduce the import number altogether and provide incentives to include clubs for home grown.  We can’t just impose that on Catalans in isolation though.  

That's one thing we agree on, i've been arguing for similar for years.

Reduce the O/S quota to 4 or 5. Make it mandatory that at least 50% of your top 25 squad earners are 'home grown' (ie. from your own academy) and give each club an additional dispensation for every player above that they have from their own academy in the top 25.

Those clubs who pay 'lip service' to developing their own players and promoting them into the 1st team will soon find themselves getting regular hammerings and be in a relegation fight each year until they improve.

[Lowdesert]

36 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

I'm saying if they spend almost the entire season playing reserve grade or only getting the occasional bench spot and limited time on the pitch then its a complete waste of time them playing for France because they'll just never be able to compete against players who are playing week in week out at the top level.

Looking at Catalans and Saint signings, its clear to me that both are adding better bench players.  I dont look at teams now as a '13' but a '17'. Dezaria and Goudemand will most likely be regular bench rotations but still essential players in their squad.

All 4 ive mentioned will probably be nailed on French internationals this year due to the dearth of quality they have right now.  In the recent past, Elite players were getting selected as a matter of course.

[Saint Toppy]

9 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Looking at Catalans and Saint signings, its clear to me that both are adding better bench players.  I dont look at teams now as a '13' but a '17'. Dezaria and Goudemand will most likely be regular bench rotations but still essential players in their squad.

All 4 ive mentioned will probably be nailed on French internationals this year due to the dearth of quality they have right now.  In the recent past, Elite players were getting selected as a matter of course.

Difference is Saints have added bench players to compliment the starting 13 who are nearly all British, with 9 of those coming from their own academy. Catalans are adding bench players like May to a team who's starting 13 will be nearly all non-french.

[WN83]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

FFS, the two highest rating games on Sky this year, and by a country mile, involved the Catalans. 

When it comes to negotiations over broadcast rights that is the sort of thing that will add another couple of million to the deal and the clubs will benefit from greater central funding. Certainly not ######-farting around wondering how many away fans they bring.

I’ve already said I accept the final crowds being down and totally understand why away fans don’t travel on mass 15+ times a year.

The facts are the final crowds being 20,000 people down costs the game money. You ‘think’ it probably adds a couple of million quid to any TV deal (although I’m sure the tv deal has been reduced) but I know that 20,000 people missing at OT or Wembley costs the game hundreds of thousands of pounds. 
 

You talk as though I’ve suggested ‘kicking um out’ when the reality is that I’d like them to strike a balance between being a top side and helping develop French talent. I think the balance is off, that’s all and it isn’t some sort of crusade to say they should be forced to field a team of 17 Frenchmen. I do however think they should be asked over time (I suggested 5 years) to carry a maximum of 10 non French players in their squad and they should be the main driving force behind improving the French National side.

 

Who knows, maybe that way we can one day have not only a Catalans side that ‘brings in a couple of extra million to the TV deal’ but one that helps improve the French National side and we can get a good and regular income from competitive games between England and France. 
 

I don’t think it’s too much to ask tbh. 

[Forever Trinity]

Never realsied there were so many French players in the NRL

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Difference is Saints have added bench players to compliment the starting 13 who are nearly all British, with 9 of those coming from their own academy. Catalans are adding bench players like May to a team who's starting 13 will be nearly all non-french.

That’s true and I’m impressed with the academy kids coming through but Hopoate, Paasi, Bell, Matautia, Lussick & Sirronen will all start this season with, I’m guessing, Hurrell off the bench.

Got to say though, I think Saints would’ve been better opting for an extension to Selb Taia’s contract.  Thompson was a passenger and Sirronen is a risk given his knee problems.  

 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

That’s true and I’m impressed with the academy kids coming through but Hopoate, Paasi, Bell, Matautia, Lussick & Sirronen will all start this season with, I’m guessing, Hurrell off the bench.

Got to say though, I think Saints would’ve been better opting for an extension to Selb Taia’s contract.  Thompson was a passenger and Sirronen is a risk given his knee problems.  

 

Only Mata'utia & Hopoate are likely to be starters. Sironen, Lussick & Paasi will likely get bench spots. Can't see Bell or Hurrell getting game time unless there's injuries.

Woolf has already said the guys with shirts 1-13 have earned those starting places and its for the others in the squad to up their game and try to displace them.

 

On Taia, he wanted to retire so an extension wasn't an option.

[Dave T]

I think criticising Catalans for signing homophobes and sex offenders is fair game, and them having 13 overseas players is worthy of criticism in the same way it would be if Hull KR did the same.

But they are playing within the rules, and will live or die by their own business decisions, if their customers are happy with it, good for them. They are a strong SL club and they don't need to be questioned at every stage, but then we like to do that about all our existing clubs, so maybe that just makes them part of the furniture.

Similarly we don't have to go over the top with the benefits - there are some nice tv number quotes - but when Salford made the Grand Final there were almost 200k more viewers and 20k more in the ground, and we know the state Salford are in.

ON the signing itself, I don't like it one bit, I don't think we should be signing players following offences like this, but as per my 2nd para, that's their choice.

[The storm]

On 01/12/2021 at 20:05, UTK said:

I know they've historically not really cared about previous indiscretions but at least the controversial players they bring across are usually quite talented. 

May is genuinely useless and I haven't got a clue where they intend to play him given the current makeup of their side.

What a truly absurd comment