Buying tickets for the RLWC

[fighting irish]

Just now, gingerjon said:

I've just checked for the Emirates Semi Final.

You can choose blocks but not specific rows or seats.

That's no good is it?

Why, in this day and age, when Cambridge Analytica without asking, can tell how old you are, what gender you identify as, who you vote for, how much you earn, what your favourite tv show is, etc. etc. etc. can't a ticket seller tie you to a particular seat?

It's part of our problem, isn't it? We need to get with the programme.

Stop making excuses and treat the customers with some respect.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Yes, but actively encouraging people to wait till the last minute (for the discounts) doesn't build confidence. As the seller, seeing paltry sales (due to people's inclination to wait for the discounts) just makes you panic, into discounting all the more!

They could begin perhaps by opening up the middle tiers and when sold out branch out from there. The idea that you can choose your seat, (if available) by buying early is a real inducement to commit. Knowing that you have a premium seat for the stadium average price is a big inducement too. Then the seller has to have the cojones not to discount (no matter what).

I know what the idea is, Its been suggested on here for years. It could certainly create as many issues as it solves.

What you say is implied is the fix for issues seen now. It doesn't take that further change. Stopping discounts etc also does not require this change.

 

 

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

33 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I've just checked for the Emirates Semi Final.

You can choose blocks but not specific rows or seats.

I bought early and couldn't even choose the block, this has resulted in me being allocated seats I'd never have chosen for the opener and the semi final - others are not too bad. It does mean I'll be very reluctant to buy on a 'best available' basis again 

[fighting irish]

22 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

I bought early and couldn't even choose the block, this has resulted in me being allocated seats I'd never have chosen for the opener and the semi final - others are not too bad. It does mean I'll be very reluctant to buy on a 'best available' basis again 

It's shi te isn't it.

The big take away (for me) is that you have been put off buying in future, instead of being motivated to deal with us again.

In terms of marketing, that's a big no - no. 

By the sound of it, these issues have been going on for years, it's no wonder we can't fill a stadium.

Wouldn't it be nice, if our interactions with ''the organisation'' left us overjoyed and enthusiastically motivated to deal with ''the organisation'' again and again? 

[fighting irish]

39 minutes ago, Damien said:

I know what the idea is, I've seen it suggested on here for years. It could certainly create as many issues as it solves.

What you say is implied is the fix for issues seen now. It doesn't take that further change. Stopping discounts etc also does not require this change.

 

 

Damien, I haven't thought this through in detail, but you imply you have given it a good deal more thought. Please explain how it might create as many problems as it solves? I accept your second paragraph although, I'd like some further explanation?

What it might do (Gubrats suggestion) is create a flush of sales, early on (rather than late in the day) because the ''bargains'' are obtained due to committing early, rather than waiting for last minute discounts. This would give the sellers (the RFL) the peace of mind, that they had already broken even so the game is a financial success and any further sales are all extra profit.

As a business man, that makes life's moments a lot more pleasing, even blissful.

There are issues about where to set the price, but that's what makes being a businessman so much fun.

[Dave T]

We need to be careful to work out what problem we are solving here. 

If all the people who claim they will wait until last minute in case of offers still buy, then it maybe isn't the big issue we could claim. 

And if people are so price sensitive, I'd expect them to buy early with the offers that are out. 

If getting early sales is a challenge, then things like price guarantees/promises can work for that (refunds if they go lower at any point). 

But as always on this, there are a few myths around this kind of thing. Cheap last minute deals are not standard. We've seen a few offers in the last few years as Catalans have made a couple of finals, and there was the outrage at the Cup Final this year over the discount code, but there was no public offer. 

We don't know whether there will be cheap tickets for the rlwc this year, but we are seeing some poor sales approaches, and the pricing is extremely ambitious, to put it kindly. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

The issue still stays the same if the RFL don't open the full stadium for sale. It's the sports lack of faith in actually being able to sell out the stadium they've hired which is often the issue 

That's a big issue of mine - particularly as they micro-manage it so much. As a bare minimum they should open up the amount they expect to sell. I. E. A game between England and Australia should be getting 45k in London, why are we starting sales with only 15 to 20k available? 

I think the RFL just haven't grasped the fa t that seat choice is a really important part of the sales process. For sporting events or gigs that sell out in minutes, people are just happy to be in the ground, but other than that people expect to be able to choose which stand, what tier etc they get for their money. 

To be fair, apart from the blocked out tickets I highlighted earlier, it appears that the whole grounds are open for all games for the rlwc, including at places like Sheffield and Middlesborough. 

[Scubby]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I've just checked for the Emirates Semi Final.

You can choose blocks but not specific rows or seats.

Is this another cost cutting exercise? You were able to choose seats for both the Challenge Cup final, 2021 GF and England game.

They have moved down from Enterprise to Pro on the Ticket Provider subscription

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Is this another cost cutting exercise? You were able to choose seats for both the Challenge Cup final, 2021 GF and England game.

They have moved down from Enterprise to Pro on the Ticket Provider subscription

I don't mind such things - or at least I can understand why they happen - when you book in advance and the exact configuration isn't known so they can really only give it you by area. Though I do think there should always be some kind of ability to change if the allocation isn't suitable for whatever reason.

But we're so close now that I expect to be able to see which actual seats I will be booking. I really don't think that's a premium or OTT ask, it seems pretty basic.

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

We need to be careful to work out what problem we are solving here. 

If all the people who claim they will wait until last minute in case of offers still buy, then it maybe isn't the big issue we could claim. 

And if people are so price sensitive, I'd expect them to buy early with the offers that are out. 

If getting early sales is a challenge, then things like price guarantees/promises can work for that (refunds if they go lower at any point). 

But as always on this, there are a few myths around this kind of thing. Cheap last minute deals are not standard. We've seen a few offers in the last few years as Catalans have made a couple of finals, and there was the outrage at the Cup Final this year over the discount code, but there was no public offer. 

We don't know whether there will be cheap tickets for the rlwc this year, but we are seeing some poor sales approaches, and the pricing is extremely ambitious, to put it kindly. 

All of this is true, and I do think there are a lot of factors that I think RLWC haven't really addressed. The perceived value issue is the biggest one for me, but that's not something that RLWC or Dutton can fix on their own - it's needs a whole of sport effort, sustained over a long term because as soon as you have a club offering a sub-£100 season ticket or an "everyone gets in for free" day, it's undone. Even Magic Weekend, which has been going for 15 years, relies heavily on discounts because SLE, the clubs and the RFL haven't worked out how to add to the perceived value. 

But on the last point, I think it goes back to the issue of there being no downside to waiting until later in the day. If there was a clamour for tickets, and you were at risk of missing out on a game you wanted to see, you'd buy early. If you had first dibs on the best seats, you'd buy early. But neither of those things are true, so the trade-off of waiting for a discount, even if it may never come, isn't really much of a disadvantage. Even the chance of a discount, when balanced with the likelihood of missing out, is enough motivation for people to hold off. 

One thing I recalled from 2013 that seems to be lacking from last year was the "bundles" of tickets that you could buy. There was definitely a "big match" bundle that included the opener, semis and final (my wife bought it as a Christmas present) and there were "city/venue" bundles where you could bulk buy all of the fixtures at a particular stadium. I think that would have been a good tactical offer. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said:

All of this is true, and I do think there are a lot of factors that I think RLWC haven't really addressed. The perceived value issue is the biggest one for me, but that's not something that RLWC or Dutton can fix on their own - it's needs a whole of sport effort, sustained over a long term because as soon as you have a club offering a sub-£100 season ticket or an "everyone gets in for free" day, it's undone. Even Magic Weekend, which has been going for 15 years, relies heavily on discounts because SLE, the clubs and the RFL haven't worked out how to add to the perceived value. 

But on the last point, I think it goes back to the issue of there being no downside to waiting until later in the day. If there was a clamour for tickets, and you were at risk of missing out on a game you wanted to see, you'd buy early. If you had first dibs on the best seats, you'd buy early. But neither of those things are true, so the trade-off of waiting for a discount, even if it may never come, isn't really much of a disadvantage. Even the chance of a discount, when balanced with the likelihood of missing out, is enough motivation for people to hold off. 

One thing I recalled from 2013 that seems to be lacking from last year was the "bundles" of tickets that you could buy. There was definitely a "big match" bundle that included the opener, semis and final (my wife bought it as a Christmas present) and there were "city/venue" bundles where you could bulk buy all of the fixtures at a particular stadium. I think that would have been a good tactical offer. 

Your 2nd para is spot on for me and I think this is a bigger thing than any promise of offer. My view is that I can sort it when I can be bothered, there's no rush, and tbh, if they do sell out before I get to them, then I'll be happy with that. 

I do think this is where the early birds are meant to do their thing. I can't help but feel we should have hit certain games hard with big early bird offers and try to bank a couple of sellouts. If the England opener was sold out now and maybe the final, then that would make people like me sit up and start to buy tickets. 

I keep hearing how well the opener is doing and that it will sellout, but I dont believe any section is sold out yet, and if it is, they should be shouting this. 

A really clear strategy is needed imho, big early bird offer, create the noise, sell some bulk amounts, then as you up the price, sell on the fact that tickets are selling fast. Against this backdrop we should be focusing on the actual event marketing, if that's inclusivity, push that, whatever it is push it, but it feels like there is nothing. I think you made the point earlier that it feels just like 2013, and that's spot on. 

The bundles you refer to are absolute a miss this time, I thought I'd seen some for this event, maybe they were withdrawn, I don't know. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I thought I'd seen some for this event, maybe they were withdrawn, I don't know. 

I thought I'd seen some - something about getting your squad together, as well?

Can't see either now.

[Scubby]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Your 2nd para is spot on for me and I think this is a bigger thing than any promise of offer. My view is that I can sort it when I can be bothered, there's no rush, and tbh, if they do sell out before I get to them, then I'll be happy with that. 

I do think this is where the early birds are meant to do their thing. I can't help but feel we should have hit certain games hard with big early bird offers and try to bank a couple of sellouts. If the England opener was sold out now and maybe the final, then that would make people like me sit up and start to buy tickets. 

I keep hearing how well the opener is doing and that it will sellout, but I dont believe any section is sold out yet, and if it is, they should be shouting this. 

A really clear strategy is needed imho, big early bird offer, create the noise, sell some bulk amounts, then as you up the price, sell on the fact that tickets are selling fast. Against this backdrop we should be focusing on the actual event marketing, if that's inclusivity, push that, whatever it is push it, but it feels like there is nothing. I think you made the point earlier that it feels just like 2013, and that's spot on. 

The bundles you refer to are absolute a miss this time, I thought I'd seen some for this event, maybe they were withdrawn, I don't know. 

Exactly what I will be doing. I will back my chances to pick up the tickets I want a couple of weeks out from the tournament. I think there's a fair chance they will be discounted tickets but, if not, what have I missed out on because the strategy isn't driving me to think I miss out. 

Back at the old Wembley I believe the best seats used to sell out first. That seems to happen in other sports too. We either don't have that demographic any longer or the ability to create that scarcity. 

[GUBRATS]

All tickets one price , sell the best view first , sorted 

If like me you'll only be sorting it out a month or two before , you get what's left 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

All tickets one price , sell the best view first , sorted 

Might work for stadiums with essentially the same view all the way round - so, single tier grounds up to about 10k capacity - but is a joke of an idea for anything larger or more complicated than that.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Might work for stadiums with essentially the same view all the way round - so, single tier grounds up to about 10k capacity - but is a joke of an idea for anything larger or more complicated than that.

Why ?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Might work for stadiums with essentially the same view all the way round - so, single tier grounds up to about 10k capacity - but is a joke of an idea for anything larger or more complicated than that.

Sorry @GUBRATS- joke is a little harsh. I think it can't work in larger grounds because you either have to undervalue good seats or overvalue poor ones.

For those smaller grounds though, it would work.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Sorry @GUBRATS- joke is a little harsh. I think it can't work in larger grounds because you either have to undervalue good seats or overvalue poor ones.

 

Yes so ? 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes so ? 

So, if you undervalue good seats then you drive down the value of the product overall. This is problematic as you'll need to find sponsorship, TV deals and other add-ons to cover the loss of income those seats should deliver. Plus, you've now set the level your audience expects to pay.

OTOH, if you overvalue bad seats because you want to charge a proper price for the decent ones then the bad seats won't look so appealing and take up will be low.

This isn't an issue in smaller single tier stadiums - except for, say, specific deluxe/premium areas should they exist.

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Exactly what I will be doing. I will back my chances to pick up the tickets I want a couple of weeks out from the tournament. I think there's a fair chance they will be discounted tickets but, if not, what have I missed out on because the strategy isn't driving me to think I miss out. 

Back at the old Wembley I believe the best seats used to sell out first. That seems to happen in other sports too. We either don't have that demographic any longer or the ability to create that scarcity. 

Have all the tickets at the same price , which area's will sell out first ?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, gingerjon said:

So, if you undervalue good seats then you drive down the value of the product overall. This is problematic as you'll need to find sponsorship, TV deals and other add-ons to cover the loss of income those seats should deliver. Plus, you've now set the level your audience expects to pay.

OTOH, if you overvalue bad seats because you want to charge a proper price for the decent ones then the bad seats won't look so appealing and take up will be low.

This isn't an issue in smaller single tier stadiums - except for, say, specific deluxe/premium areas should they exist.

All you'd end up with is people paying less for expensive seats and not paying at all for the less good seats. So our big venues, which are our biggest earners, earn us even less.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

So, if you undervalue good seats then you drive down the value of the product overall. This is problematic as you'll need to find sponsorship, TV deals and other add-ons to cover the loss of income those seats should deliver. Plus, you've now set the level your audience expects to pay.

OTOH, if you overvalue bad seats because you want to charge a proper price for the decent ones then the bad seats won't look so appealing and take up will be low.

This isn't an issue in smaller single tier stadiums - except for, say, specific deluxe/premium areas should they exist.

Or people will buy earlier , because there's no point waiting for a discount , make it simple 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

All you'd end up with is people paying less for expensive seats and not paying at all for the less good seats. So our big venues, which are our biggest earners, earn us even less.

You know this for a fact ? 

Or maybe we sell out 4 months in advance 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

All you'd end up with is people paying less for expensive seats and not paying at all for the less good seats. So our big venues, which are our biggest earners, earn us even less.

Exactly.

And we move our baseline level that people expect to get decent seats at our major events *even lower*.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Have all the tickets at the same price , which area's will sell out first ?

What price?

Because to make this worthwhile, you have to make sure you sell enough tickets that you can cope with 90% of what would be category D/E going unsold. 

If you say £50 a pop, that's too cheap for some seats, yet still too expensive for some people/families etc. We have different price points because they aren't of the same value but also allow different budgets in.

If you say £20, you potentially are writing off over half a million in income (20,000 x £30). Can the RLWC afford to do that?