Sun 23 October: RLWC: Lebanon v Ireland KO 2.30pm

[redjonn]

2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I agree, but my point was more that I was surprised that the disciplinary committee didn't take action retrospectively

Yep I agree and yep I missed your key point.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

20 hours ago, Number 16 said:

You've gotta question. 

The anthems... the Aussie Lebanese sang. The English Irish mumbled. 

It meant more to one team?

Question.

Possibly not that simple, musically, No.16.

I presume (though must admit I don't know) that there is one Lebanese national anthem, because the Lebanese team is representing one country.  By contrast, the Irish team (like, inter alia, the West Indies cricket team) is representing more than one country.  It is a challenge in sports like both rugby codes and ice hockey, where Ireland has a single team representing the political combination of the republic and Northern Ireland, to know what to sing.

Amhran na bhFiann (The Soldier's Song) could be unacceptable to those from the Six Counties; God Save the King would be unacceptable to those from, or with connections to, the republic.  Only internationals involving GAA Ireland squads are likely to be content with Amhrann na bhFiann, because of the nationalistic history of Gaelic games.  The geographically neutral Ireland's Call might have been an option, but as it was, I believe, commissioned by the IRFU, it might not have appealed to a league squad.

Of course, it could be that Lebanon had a training session, round a piano, on their national anthem, while Ireland stuck to what to do on the field of play during the game itself!

[Madrileño]

7 hours ago, JonM said:

He was previously Assistant Coach at the Sydney City Roosters, a rugby league team of some repute.

He wasn't really. He was an advisor for a few months.

However, that is somewhat pedantic by me, as he was (as you say) involved in the organisation, mainly to challenge the other coaches. In terms of technical/tactical - he did not have a lot of input.

Someone else mentioned that he now has Matt King with him, but in fact that is the mark of a good head coach: the ability to appoint and empower high quality assistants. 

At the end of the day, Lebanon is Cheika's first real League gig, and he is doing it very well.

[Madrileño]

On 23/10/2022 at 13:30, MatthewWoody said:

I love how you write "Irish" with commas. Very respectful.

Thanks. Obviously its because none of them are actually Irish. You only need to look at their non existent attempts to sing their anthem.

It would be disrespectful to actual Irish people to just write Irish without the commas, but they are playing for the Ireland team, so I figured I would refer to them as "Irish" even though 99% of them are from the North of England. 

[Madrileño]

3 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Possibly not that simple, musically, No.16.

I presume (though must admit I don't know) that there is one Lebanese national anthem, because the Lebanese team is representing one country.  By contrast, the Irish team (like, inter alia, the West Indies cricket team) is representing more than one country.  It is a challenge in sports like both rugby codes and ice hockey, where Ireland has a single team representing the political combination of the republic and Northern Ireland, to know what to sing.

Amhran na bhFiann (The Soldier's Song) could be unacceptable to those from the six counties.

How many Ireland players are from there? 

I think zero?

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

How many Ireland players are from there? 

I think zero?

How many Tongan players were born in Tonga ?

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

How many Ireland players are from there? 

I think zero?

I am sure you are right, but, in the context of the music of anthems (which I was specifically addressing), what is your point? 

As my nom-de-plume suggests, I support the Catalan Dragons and enjoyed singing La Marseillaise and listening to Els Segadors at the 2018 cup final at Wembley, but I am neither French nor Catalan.  An enthusiasm for good music, including anthems, is nothing to do with where you were born.

By the way, what music would you have chosen as the Irish anthem?

[Madrileño]

16 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I am sure you are right, but, in the context of the music of anthems (which I was specifically addressing), what is your point? 

As my nom-de-plume suggests, I support the Catalan Dragons and enjoyed singing La Marseillaise and listening to Els Segadors at the 2018 cup final at Wembley, but I am neither French nor Catalan.  An enthusiasm for good music, including anthems, is nothing to do with where you were born.

By the way, what music would you have chosen as the Irish anthem?

My point was just that there are no northern Irish players in their team, so why on earth complicate the situation with your 'God save the king' nonsense?

No Ireland team in any sport would ever play that song, and even most northern Ireland teams don't. The only team that does in fact, are the football bigots. The boxing don't, the basketball don't,  and NONE of the Commonwealth games do either. 

 

[Madrileño]

37 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How many Tongan players were born in Tonga ?

Tonga is a country that is at the rugby league world cup.

"The six counties" is not. 

[Barley Mow]

26 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

My point was just that there are no northern Irish players in their team, so why on earth complicate the situation with your 'God save the king' nonsense?

No Ireland team in any sport would ever play that song, and even most northern Ireland teams don't. The only team that does in fact, are the football bigots. The boxing don't, the basketball don't,  and NONE of the Commonwealth games do either. 

 

I think the James Bentley's heritage is Unionist.

If the team is representing the whole of Ireland and there is no other option for the Unionist community, then they really can't use the republic's anthem (or flag/other symbols).

They need to use neutral symbism even if the whole team had unionist or republican heritage, because in the next squad, the make up could be different and they can't go changing the flag and anthem from match to match.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Barley Mow

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Madrileño said:

Thanks. Obviously its because none of them are actually Irish. You only need to look at their non existent attempts to sing their anthem.

It would be disrespectful to actual Irish people to just write Irish without the commas, but they are playing for the Ireland team, so I figured I would refer to them as "Irish" even though 99% of them are from the North of England. 

Is this 99% of 17 people?

And you could argue that the hybrid compromise Ireland's Call is not the anthem of the Republic, Northern Ireland nor Ireland as a whole.

[Madrileño]

12 minutes ago, Griff said:

Is this 99% of 17 people?

Sorry. You are right - I should have said 100%.

[StandOffHalf]

6 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Possibly not that simple, musically, No.16.

I presume (though must admit I don't know) that there is one Lebanese national anthem, because the Lebanese team is representing one country.  By contrast, the Irish team (like, inter alia, the West Indies cricket team) is representing more than one country.  It is a challenge in sports like both rugby codes and ice hockey, where Ireland has a single team representing the political combination of the republic and Northern Ireland, to know what to sing.

Amhran na bhFiann (The Soldier's Song) could be unacceptable to those from the Six Counties; God Save the King would be unacceptable to those from, or with connections to, the republic.  Only internationals involving GAA Ireland squads are likely to be content with Amhrann na bhFiann, because of the nationalistic history of Gaelic games.  The geographically neutral Ireland's Call might have been an option, but as it was, I believe, commissioned by the IRFU, it might not have appealed to a league squad.

Of course, it could be that Lebanon had a training session, round a piano, on their national anthem, while Ireland stuck to what to do on the field of play during the game itself!

I think it shows an astounding lack of awareness, pride and sensitivity from RLI to have 'Ireland's Call' as their team anthem. As you quite rightly allude to, it was commissioned by Irish rugby union for the 1995 World Cup.

Any other song would be better - Danny Boy, Nothing Compares 2 U, Zombie, etc....

[Madrileño]

1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think it shows an astounding lack of awareness, pride and sensitivity from RLI to have 'Ireland's Call' as their team anthem. As you quite rightly allude to, it was commissioned by Irish rugby union for the 1995 World Cup.

"Astounding lack of awareness"?

Really? 

The song is nearly 30 years old, and is used by the national cricket teams, and hockey teams (women and men) as their pre match national anthems. 

It might not be the greatest song in the world,  but I don't see why the League team would be showing an "astounding lack of awareness " by using it. 

[StandOffHalf]

4 hours ago, Madrileño said:

"Astounding lack of awareness"?

Really? 

The song is nearly 30 years old, and is used by the national cricket teams, and hockey teams (women and men) as their pre match national anthems. 

It might not be the greatest song in the world,  but I don't see why the League team would be showing an "astounding lack of awareness " by using it. 

Yes, I stand by that. Cricket and hockey would be part of the private school, South Dublin, upper middle class, Anglo-Irish establishment set and would be only too willing to perpetuate and promote a rugby union song.

Rugby League should not jump on board and allow itself to be led and used by those who despise the sport, denigrate it at every turn, and wish it eradicated.

Playing 'Ireland's Call' is an act of self-inflicted harm and subjugation. Playing it shows that those running RLI are, at best, lacking in pride and initiative and, at worst, lacking in awareness and sensitivity around the origins of the song.

I don't care that it is a cringey song. I care that it is a RU-commissioned song.

Edited October 25, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[StandOffHalf]

Irish rugby union doesn't get to set/impose the ''national anthem''.

RL should offer a counterpoint to their attempts to dominate and influence the national perception.

[StandOffHalf]

Concerns have been raised about 'Ireland's Call' at board level in RLI. It is the Unionists from clubs in the 6 counties who have stifled and buried questions/issues with its continued use as the team anthem.

[Tommygilf]

7 hours ago, Madrileño said:

My point was just that there are no northern Irish players in their team, so why on earth complicate the situation with your 'God save the king' nonsense?

No Ireland team in any sport would ever play that song, and even most northern Ireland teams don't. The only team that does in fact, are the football bigots. The boxing don't, the basketball don't,  and NONE of the Commonwealth games do either. 

 

So none of the teams save the single biggest team and sport in the country, great point 

If you compete on an all Ireland basis, you represent the whole island. You don't get to be picky about who you don't represent. Maybe they go with no anthem in future.

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Concerns have been raised about 'Ireland's Call' at board level in RLI. It is the Unionists from clubs in the 6 counties who have stifled and buried questions/issues with its continued use as the team anthem.

What are the alternatives? Soldiers Song and GSTK are out for obvious reasons. No anthem at all potentially?

[StandOffHalf]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

What are the alternatives? Soldiers Song and GSTK are out for obvious reasons. No anthem at all potentially?

RLI used to play Amhrán na bhFiann. It was their anthem in 2008, but by 2013 they had moved over to 'Ireland's Call'.

The RU team used to play with no anthem. I don't mind what song RLI go with, as long as it's not the song commissioned by the IRFU.

Something like 'Danny Boy' would be a recognisably Irish tune that would be acceptable to Green, Orange, and those in between.

[Griff]

7 hours ago, Madrileño said:

Sorry. You are right - I should have said 100%.

Check out Sydney Roosters' excellent work on his World Cup players' birthplaces thread.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Griff

[Griff]

6 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think it shows an astounding lack of awareness, pride and sensitivity from RLI to have 'Ireland's Call' as their team anthem. As you quite rightly allude to, it was commissioned by Irish rugby union for the 1995 World Cup.

Any other song would be better - Danny Boy, Nothing Compares 2 U, Zombie, etc....

Danny Boy? The song Northern Ireland use as their anthem for the Commonwealth Games?

Very All-Ireland......

[StandOffHalf]

37 minutes ago, Griff said:

Danny Boy? The song Northern Ireland use as their anthem for the Commonwealth Games?

Very All-Ireland......

It's just a suggestion. Any popular Irish tune would be better than the RU song, IMO.

[corkonian77]

1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

It's just a suggestion. Any popular Irish tune would be better than the RU song, IMO.

Irelands call is generally  unloved in the Republic; it is at best  tolerated.

The anthem issue  is bottom  of the list of concerns  for RLI.  

 

 

 

[OriginalMrC]

The Ireland Rugby league team is an all Ireland team, something many of the current squad are unaware of. This is something I had to point out to their social media as they were using the tricolour on their posts. The official RLI flag is the 4 provinces flag. 

In terms of the anthem Irelands call is fine, its used by other all Ireland teams. Not sure what the alternative is? 

As to the make up of the team it is indeed disappointing that only one Irish born and bred player (Ronan Michael) made the squad and he hasn't even been used. There were other players who who've played for Ireland students and U19s who play pro/semi pro that should have at least made the squad.