Red Star Belgrade want to Create Blueprint for European Club Giants to Follow

[Gomersall]

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/red-star-belgrade-want-to-create-blueprint-for-european-club-giants-to-follow

[Eddie]

Nice article, thanks for sharing.  Their frustration at other teams beating them with a load of Australians is understandable.

[Eddie]

Some decent stash for sale too https://www.rlkcrvenazvezda.com/en/prodavnica/

[Jughead]

Some sensible stuff there about growth and the international game, I’m not so sure on the “let’s just get a load of famous names and shove them in a competition” idea, mind. 

[Whippet13]

Interesting article, good to read they are trying to grow the game over there into something well beyond just a social thing. RL has lots of potential in Eastern Europe, it has been knocked back by Covid, war and geopolitical events but I'm confident it will grow.

Couple of articles I have come across recently on Albania and Ukraine:

https://europeanrugbyleague.com/articles/2244/albania-rugby-league-unveil-new-major-sp...

https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/03/22/hope-in-their-hearts-rugby-league-a-beacon-of-hope-for-ukraine/

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Whippet13

[Whippet13]

2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Some sensible stuff there about growth and the international game, I’m not so sure on the “let’s just get a load of famous names and shove them in a competition” idea, mind. 

Probably help from the Serbian domestic view, but it wouldn't help the wider European game - risks becoming a bit "Euro XIII"

[langpark]

I take a bit of issue with this part:

Serbia boasted 703 registered participants, which is around double Scotland (369) and Ireland (420)

So if these figures are true, the that should mean: Serbia has 28-35 teams. Scotland has 15-18 teams, Ireland has 17-21 teams. Which clearly, none of them do. 

Other than that, a great read! 

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, langpark said:

I take a bit of issue with this part:

Serbia boasted 703 registered participants, which is around double Scotland (369) and Ireland (420)

So if these figures are true, the that should mean: Serbia has 28-35 teams. Scotland has 15-18 teams, Ireland has 17-21 teams. Which clearly, none of them do. 

Other than that, a great read! 

On the same ratio, England should have just over 2,100 teams.

[gingerjon]

Even by European sporting club standards, Red Star is massive. It's got over 30 disciplines within it. I think Barcelona, also mentioned, manages about five which is far more in the normal range. So, whilst what Red Star have done is not easy at all and really is worthy of applause, it's also not necessarily replicable when other sporting clubs don't have such a positive attitude to adding more and more sports.

[Archie Gordon]

11 minutes ago, langpark said:

I take a bit of issue with this part:

Serbia boasted 703 registered participants, which is around double Scotland (369) and Ireland (420)

So if these figures are true, the that should mean: Serbia has 28-35 teams. Scotland has 15-18 teams, Ireland has 17-21 teams. Which clearly, none of them do. 

Other than that, a great read! 

Seems reasonable if there are age group comps underneath OA and these numbers include them. Are there? I don't know.

[langpark]

1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

Seems reasonable if there are age group comps underneath OA and these numbers include them. Are there? I don't know.

Really ? Do Scotland and Serbia have thriving (hidden underground) youth leagues that none of us know about?

Serbia.I believe has 6-7 men's teams, one women's team and a few U18 and U16 teams (who usually play 9 vs 9). Great effort and am not being "negative", but the number simply do not add up. 

Greece, 190 across 8 mens and 3 womens teams, however, does seem to add up. 

[Eddie]

34 minutes ago, langpark said:

I take a bit of issue with this part:

Serbia boasted 703 registered participants, which is around double Scotland (369) and Ireland (420)

So if these figures are true, the that should mean: Serbia has 28-35 teams. Scotland has 15-18 teams, Ireland has 17-21 teams. Which clearly, none of them do. 

Other than that, a great read! 

Maybe it includes kids, though I was very surprised at how high the numbers in Ireland and Scotland are. 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Maybe it includes kids, though I was very surprised at how high the numbers in Ireland and Scotland are. 

Boys, girls, Students, womens, it doesn't seem that far fetched frankly.

[Archie Gordon]

16 minutes ago, langpark said:

Really ? Do Scotland and Serbia have thriving (hidden underground) youth leagues that none of us know about?

Serbia.I believe has 6-7 men's teams, one women's team and a few U18 and U16 teams (who usually play 9 vs 9). Great effort and am not being "negative", but the number simply do not add up. 

Greece, 190 across 8 mens and 3 womens teams, however, does seem to add up. 

It's certainly possible to have hundreds of registered players but very little formal activity. Hold a training open day, organise a few schools to play matches, and so on. I estimate that around 200 people will play RL this year in my RL outpost town if we add it all up. But if you looked on the map, you'd see just a single club operating.

[Tommygilf]

51 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Interesting article, good to read they are trying to grow the game over there into something well beyond just a social thing. RL has lots of potential in Eastern Europe, it has been knocked back by Covid, war and geopolitical events but I'm confident it will grow.

Couple of articles I have come across recently on Albania and Ukraine:

https://europeanrugbyleague.com/articles/2244/albania-rugby-league-unveil-new-major-sp...

https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/03/22/hope-in-their-hearts-rugby-league-a-beacon-of-hope-for-ukraine/

 

I saw the Albania sponsorship, Porsche!

Good to see some of the money being made around the world is at least making it into some good causes...

Totally agree on Eastern and South Eastern Europe though. RL has a lot of potential because essentially football is very poor and has minimal chance of becoming competitive on the European stage. 

[Barley Mow]

Where multi-sport clubs exist across Europe this does seem a good way for RL to spread.

Using existing infrastructure rather than having to start entirely from scratch should give teams a head start in their development.

Keep up the good work Red Star.

One thing I didn't understand was this:

"the tightening of visa restrictions as a result of Brexit has made it near-on impossible for any Serbian players to ply their trade in the professional leagues in Europe in England and France."

Moderators - feel free to delete this part of my post if this is too political (I wouldn't want to wreck a good thread about some fantastic work people are doing in Serbia).

1. Did anything change in the visa requirements for Serbians coming to the UK when we left the EU? Serbia isn't in the EU - if UK government wanted tighter requirements for Serbs, they could have imposed them without/before leaving the EU.

2. Why would the UK leaving the EU change visa requirements for Serbs travelling to France (who remain in the EU)?

[Eddie]

31 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Boys, girls, Students, womens, it doesn't seem that far fetched frankly.

369 people playing rugby league in Scotland though? There are four clubs and as far as I’m aware no junior set up. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

Did anything change in the visa requirements for Serbians coming to the UK when we left the EU? Serbia isn't in the EU - if UK government wanted tighter requirements for Serbs, they could have imposed them without/before leaving the EU.

EU passport holders can travel to Serbia without a visa and vice versa.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

EU passport holders can travel to Serbia without a visa and vice versa.

Which doesn't answer the comment about why its difficult for travel to France...

It seems like we have introduced ESTAs for Serbians coming here and France will be doing so next year. No requirements for Visas for up to 90 days the other way though.

[Barley Mow]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

EU passport holders can travel to Serbia without a visa and vice versa.

Thanks.

Do you know if that applies to Serbians working in EU? The article referred to it being more difficult to "ply their trade in the professional leagues in Europe in England and France".

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Thanks.

Do you know if that applies to Serbians working in EU? The article referred to it being more difficult to "ply their trade in the professional leagues in Europe in England and France".

Absolutely no idea as I don't much care what the French do - beyond checking in on their handball league from time to time to follow by brave Dunkerque boys, but it does seem a straightforward point: before leaving the EU it was straightforward for Red Star to enter the Challenge Cup, now, because we have left the EU it is not.

[Barley Mow]

13 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Absolutely no idea as I don't much care what the French do - beyond checking in on their handball league from time to time to follow by brave Dunkerque boys, but it does seem a straightforward point: before leaving the EU it was straightforward for Red Star to enter the Challenge Cup, now, because we have left the EU it is not.

I imagine it is at least as much that having entered it in 2019, they realised it wasn't straightforward at all (if nothing else due to the transport and hotel costs).

I note that they didn't enter the challenge cup in 2020, before COVID restrictions hit and while UK was in a transition period that meant EU rules and regulations still applied.

Anyway, I don't want to take the thread off on too much of a tangent - all the best to Red Star and Serbian RL.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Futtocks]

21 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Thanks.

Do you know if that applies to Serbians working in EU? The article referred to it being more difficult to "ply their trade in the professional leagues in Europe in England and France".

Does that maybe (really not sure) refer to leagues where a French team has to come to the UK to play away games? i.e. Catalans.

Is there extra paperwork for that?

[Futtocks]

Just now, Futtocks said:

Does that maybe (really not sure) refer to leagues where a French team has to come to the UK to play away games? i.e. Catalans.

Is there extra paperwork for that?

Or it could mean that playing at amateur level in France isn't a problem, but as soon as professionalism or semi-professionalism is involved, there are complications?

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

369 people playing rugby league in Scotland though? There are four clubs and as far as I’m aware no junior set up. 

I'm pretty sure tag rugby and other RL variants count in participation numbers.