England v Tonga series

[Dave T]

On 02/08/2023 at 23:09, meast said:

Is there any real point playing a game in London and limiting the crowd to 18,000?

Surely you go big if you're gonna go to London?

I think there are a few things at play here. As a sport we are clearly becoming more I sular, and I think this series' schedule is a good example of that. It is absolutely about serving current, local fans and 2 tests in West Yorks feels unnecessary. They will now clash with each other and I think with focus we could have seen 24k at Hudds as the only test in Yorks. 

I think we need to get back in the mindset of London being an important part of any growth plans. At a time when our TV rights are dropping, sponsors walk away and are never replaced, it is hard to justify us as anything other than a Northern oddity. 

In general, history has shown that London delivers the biggest crowds in a series or tournament, and whilst this series may be a bit more unknown than others, realistic targets of 20k would be achieved and potentially exceeded. 

Of course all of this depends on stadium availibility and commercials, but as outsiders, two games in West Yorkshire is a backward step. 

[Click]

18 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Just. I think maybe one of the stands is newer and it looks like there's been some superficial work as well. It wouldn't be my choice but it is pretty easy to get to from central London and not an obvious wreck like, say, Millwall's ground.

It's not too bad - But I don't think much has changed at all since the Broncos were playing there. 

[Gomersall]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Ideally yes, but between Brentford and the Olympic stadium, Spurs and the Emirates at 60k plus, is there a suitable sized modern ground? Fulham, maybe at best?

I'd rather sell out a brand new stadium, at near world cup value ticket prices, at Brentford, than go for the same ticket prices as we will at Headingley or St Helens at the likes of 2nd rate facilities in Charlton, Millwall, or QPR for example. Or alternatively take an unproven test to a possibly half empty Olympic park or Spurs. 18k is well within the scope of expectations on this tour imo. Subsequent similar tours will hopefully outgrow it immediately.

I wouldn’t bother with the Olympic stadium. Way too shallow IMO. Are the stands still a bus ride away from the pitch?

[Tommygilf]

22 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

I wouldn’t bother with the Olympic stadium. Way too shallow IMO. Are the stands still a bus ride away from the pitch?

Oh agreed, having been there for the 2016 game against Australia you were still miles away from the pitch.

[Damien]

43 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

I wouldn’t bother with the Olympic stadium. Way too shallow IMO. Are the stands still a bus ride away from the pitch?

I didn't enjoy the 2 matches I've been there too at all. It really is a poor stadium and just felt drab and not finished. Some aspects may have improved in that time but things like the poor sight lines and distance from the pitch will be exactly the same.

[pahars]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Just. I think maybe one of the stands is newer and it looks like there's been some superficial work as well. It wouldn't be my choice but it is pretty easy to get to from central London and not an obvious wreck like, say, Millwall's ground.

I think that’s a bit harsh on the New Den, it’s of a similar standard to the DW stadium.  
 

I can however fully understand not playing there because the reputation of Millwall fans would put people off travelling. 
 

It’s a shame really as it’s only a few minutes from a very well connected station in London Bridge. 
 

Charlton is ok, but disjointed as some parts date from the 70’s, and to be brutally honest the area around it has got a lot worse since Broncos left. 

[Click]

54 minutes ago, pahars said:

I think that’s a bit harsh on the New Den, it’s of a similar standard to the DW stadium.  
 

I can however fully understand not playing there because the reputation of Millwall fans would put people off travelling. 
 

It’s a shame really as it’s only a few minutes from a very well connected station in London Bridge. 
 

Charlton is ok, but disjointed as some parts date from the 70’s, and to be brutally honest the area around it has got a lot worse since Broncos left. 

Would the reputation of Millwall fans put people off travelling? 

Wigan played a game there that was reasonably well attended.. They're going to watch an RL game, not a Millwall match.

[pahars]

6 minutes ago, Click said:

Would the reputation of Millwall fans put people off travelling? 

Wigan played a game there that was reasonably well attended.. They're going to watch an RL game, not a Millwall match.

Because I can remember the kerfuffle on here in the build up to that same match with many not wishing to attend. This was despite myself and a few others that lived locally saying you’ll be fine, get off at the station over the bridge and you’re there. 
 

Also many locals who attend London games are generic sports fans with an allegiance to other teams. It won’t be fairly neutral like Brentford, Charlton or Fulham or have an event factor like the big stadiums. 
 

[Archie Gordon]

Perhaps the most frustrating thing (for a fan based in the South) is this:

3 decentish attendances of 15k+ will be read as vindication of holding the games in the North. Let's do the same for the next tourists.

3 mediocre attendances of 8-12k: vindication of not going to London where we'd have squandered even more cash. Let's do smaller Northern venues next time or even not bother.

There's no outcome that results in London getting England games.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

Perhaps the most frustrating thing (for a fan based in the South) is this:

3 decentish attendances of 15k+ will be read as vindication of holding the games in the North. Let's do the same for the next tourists.

3 mediocre attendances of 8-12k: vindication of not going to London where we'd have squandered even more cash. Let's do smaller Northern venues next time or even not bother.

There's no outcome that results in London getting England games.

So true. The word I hate most in these types of arguments is the favourite RL buzzword: consolidation. That usually means doing the same but smaller and worse in the heartlands. It's not worked the other 200 times but let's do it again anyway.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

Perhaps the most frustrating thing (for a fan based in the South) is this:

3 decentish attendances of 15k+ will be read as vindication of holding the games in the North. Let's do the same for the next tourists.

3 mediocre attendances of 8-12k: vindication of not going to London where we'd have squandered even more cash. Let's do smaller Northern venues next time or even not bother.

There's no outcome that results in London getting England games.

London as a location as part of a tournament/series should be way past having to prove itself. 

[welshmagpie]

Isn’t Brentford situated in an area of London with a large French population?

… you may see where I’m going with this one. 

[graveyard johnny]

has anyone posted a strongest possible Tonga side? without having to trawl back 23 pages

[Havenlad80]

1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

has anyone posted a strongest possible Tonga side? without having to trawl back 23 pages

Far easier to wait until the Aussies and kiwis have picked theirs before attempting to guess a potential Tongan touring squad.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Havenlad80

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

has anyone posted a strongest possible Tonga side? without having to trawl back 23 pages

 

1 hour ago, Havenlad80 said:

Far easier to wait until the Aussies and kiwis have picked theirs before attempting to guess a potential Tongan touring squad.

  

1 hour ago, Havenlad80 said:

Far easier to wait until the Aussies and kiwis have picked theirs before attempting to guess a potential Tongan touring squad.

Which players turned down Tonga to represent Australia?  If anything, it is the other way around.

This is a strong lineup, although I am sure I am missing a few:

1. Toluta'u Koula

2. Sione Katoa

4. Mosese Suli

3. Siosifa Talakai

5. Daniel Tupou

6. Tuimoala Lolohea

7. Isaiya Katoa

8: Addin Fonua-Blake

9. Soni Luke

10: Tevita Tatola

11. David Fifita

12. Keaon Koloamatangi

13. Jason Taumalolo

Substitutes

10. Siosiua Taukeiaho

14. Haumole Olakau'atu

18. Moeaki Fotuaika

21. Siliva Havili

What I do know is that it will be a cracking series.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

39 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

  

Which players turned down Tonga to represent Australia?  If anything, it is the other way around.

This is a strong lineup, although I am sure I am missing a few:

1. Toluta'u Koula

2. Sione Katoa

4. Mosese Suli

3. Siosifa Talakai

5. Daniel Tupou

6. Tuimoala Lolohea

7. Isaiya Katoa

8: Addin Fonua-Blake

9. Soni Luke

10: Tevita Tatola

11. David Fifita

12. Keaon Koloamatangi

13. Jason Taumalolo

Substitutes

10. Siosiua Taukeiaho

14. Haumole Olakau'atu

18. Moeaki Fotuaika

21. Siliva Havili

What I do know is that it will be a cracking series.

No Hurrelcane?

[ghost crayfish]

That team above looks pretty close, but Kotoni Staggs, Eliesa Katoa and Tevita Pangai Jr. are others that I'd have there, and Will Hopoate has always been an important player for Tonga and should be in the mix. Otherwise, just on the basis that it's like-for-like and he is actually Tongan born, I'd probably go with Hurrell over Talakai. This highlights there is decent depth to Tonga and they will be a strong challenge for England.

[Tommygilf]

9 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

No Hurrelcane?

New Zealand